Tailgate
Senior Member
Well, I know a lot of members rave about Shell Rotella synthetic. But the fact remains, if you remove the "S" from the word "Shell" you've got problems. Do you want your bike to go to hell? Play smart!
Threads about oil
- Thread starter Goop
- Start date
yokel84
Junior Member
Did find this article where they actually tested some oils in motorcycles and did analysis on the oil after a certain number of miles to determine what percentage of its lubricative (word?) properties it maintained. Somewhat surprising results about dedicated motorcycle oils...
Testing Motorcycle Oil
deeptekkie
Junior Member
Total agreement Bryan. I realize that many people are "sensitive" to oil threads, (though I've never understood why?), but it is the lifeblood of any internal comubustion engine. The thread could be so much more than, "I use Greasy-Black because it's the best oil made", or "I use Screen Wire brand filters because thery're the best - my garbage man said so".
There is a lot of useful knowledge from a lot of different people available out there, (besides just their personal choice of brands), just like any thread on this board.
With that said there are two things I have noticed in my brief period as an
FZ6/Ninja 250R owner, (but owning 8 bikes now):
1) I have noticed that NEW oil makes for better shifting, (irregardless of whether you use dino oil or synthetic). Why? Synthetic doesn't break down from heat.
2) Why do most manufacturers suggest putting in more oil than their factory installed measuring device inicates as "good"? For instance: On my FZ6 I have carefully measured, precisely, the amount of oil I reinstall after an oil change. It ALWAYS overfills the dipstick by a good 1/8" or better. (It came that way new too) My son's "new" (2007 : ), Ninja 250 specifies 2.0 U.S. Quarts. If you put 2 quarts in it overfills the sightglass by about 3/4". Why? Does this hurt anything? Which is right - the measuring devices or the factory owners manual? Just wondering.
Oh yeah, while I'm at it: Some guys ask does the filter need changing every oil change? Though I always do and I always will, I can say that the filter on this little 250 is very visible, (it's an element instead of a spin on), and after 2000 miles it was as clean as a brand new filter. Okay flamers, have at it! (Thanks all)
RJ2112
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1) I agree, new oil shifts better. New tires roll in better as well. Synthetic may not break down as readily due to heat as dino... but that's not the main culprit in oil degradation in unit construction motor/transmissions. As the oil is shared by the motor and gear sets in the tranny the transmission becomes the major factor in engine oil life. The constant mesh teeth on all six gear pairs are constantly acting like shears on the oil molecules that pass over the teeth. 6 pairs of scissors cutting up all those long molecules..... snipping at crank shaft speed.
Synthetic being formulated from one base stock weight is much more closely constrained to a given molecular type than 'dino'. Dino oil is simply all of the molecules that float high enough in the cracking tower to be distilled from the crude that is boiling at the bottom. Oil weight for dino is a bell curve, centered on whatever weight is claimed. As the synthetic has less variation in molecules, it takes longer to break down the higher percentage of 'long' molecules present.
2) I would expect the mfg's suggested fill volume to expect loss on the sides of the container, funnel what have you that are used to install the oil. Between that and variation in the absorbancy of the filter media, it's probably just a really, really educated guess on their part. Slightly too high is not a big issue..... it's when you get sooo much oil in there that you force oil into the EGR valve and spit that into the air box that things get dicey. Liquid oil dumped into the combustion chamber can lead to hydraulic lock in extreme cases. Slightly below the 'full' mark is probably safer; so long is the oil level is maintained above the 'low' mark, it should be good enough. Engines of the same design, will consume oil at different rates. Most of that will come from the use the engine is put to, some due to mfg tolerances/construction of an individual unit.
3) [filter change] Oil filters are a lot like beaver dams.... they are leaky restrictions. The gaps in the media determine what size particles they will trap. Brand new, the gaps are relatively large. That allows smaller particulate to pass right through the filter. As the filter ages, and traps contaminants the gaps become smaller, and that leads to trapping smaller particulates. The resistance of the filter to oil flow goes up as the media becomes loaded with particulate. The smaller the particulate trapped, the less abrasive stuff there is in the oil.
The most important thing to know about this, is the location of the filter in the path between the oil pump, and the bearings. The pump pressurizes the filter, and then the filter sends the oil to the bearings, etc. The pump always has access to the oil sump, so the pressure it develops should never change (except for flow resistance due to oil temp, and RPM).
In the base of the filter housing is a bypass valve. When the resistance of the filter exceeds a preset value, the oil from the pump will bypass the filter, and will still feed the bearings at the same pressure as previously. At that point, the oil is not longer being filtered. Works the same way as a voltage regulator... 'blows off' the excess pressure caused by a 'clogged' filter.
That bypass valve does not allow the junk already trapped in the filter to re-enter the engine oil. The stuff trapped in the media is on a one way trip off the engine, when the filter is replaced.
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deeptekkie
Junior Member
Many years ago, on my second bike, I put a well-known "friction modifier" in it after changing my oil. After that my wet clutch never did stop slipping!
RJ2112
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Good article. Thanks for sharing.
REDHAWK22
aka willie
Do you check the oil on side stand or center stand? Half way or top of the line on the dipstick?
Ctr stand, if available. Otherwise, balance bike so that it is level, not on sidestand..
Half/top of the stick is always safe
REDHAWK22
aka willie
Finally change the oil to Rotella T6...I will find out tomorrow how good it really is on my ride to Vacaville. It's also my first time to ride in a group from riders here in the area, some BARF members & some are not. It's also the first time I'm going to meet them personally, and I'm excited. 'still trying to get more sit time on my bike.
Haha, a day that will live in infamy!
But @ the OP: the problem with having a whole subforum dedicated to oil discussions is that it assumes there is something NEW to be said about oil. It is essentially a subforum dedicated to discussing something which has already been discussed ad nauseum by the entire world since the advent of oil.
Now, obviously if you search hard enough on the internet you can find answers to most questions without having to ask them, but most people will rather take the easy route of asking so someone else will do the work for them.
The problem with oil discussions is that there are SO many discussions on the internet about it that honestly even the SLIGHTEST bit of effort results in ALL the information you will ever need to make your own decision.....a decision which is based on your personal preference. And it's not like you have to read a lot to get a sense of which direction you want to go. Usually reading a page or two of a thread will be enough for people to come to their own decision. Short answer? In the end as long as you change your oil often you will not destroy your engine. What more do you want from oil? Horsepower gains? Better braking? Greater ground clearance? It's oil....
It is essentially acknowledging that you don't want to put any thought or effort into it and want someone else to make your decision for you.
A quick google search with very minimal effort:
definitive oil thread - Google Search
The internet world is full of those discussions.......do we really want to spend our time rehashing something that has gone on for billions of pages on millions of threads?
It is the equivalent of a whole subforum dedicated to:
"Which fuel should I put in my gas tank?"
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REDHAWK22
aka willie
wow, that rotella T6...I like it, bike shifts smoother....I'm hooked. Thanks guys..
