Stripped Engine Mount

[ItsAllGood]

During the simple task of putting on frame sliders I stripped out the threads in the left side engine mount. You know, hearing that gut wrenching POP that happens right after your mind is telling you "This just doesn't feel right" as you're pulling on that torque wrench.

Post action observations:
1) Lucky me(?) The mount is a "Hole-Through" type, meaning it doesn't end buried in the case somewhere.
2) The threaded area intended for securing the bolt threads in the engine case are only half stripped because for some odd reason thats only as far as the bolt penetrates (factory as well).
3) 40mm original thread surface / 23mm thread surface remains after strip.
4) Factory bolt length = 50mm.
5) Original slider bolt length = 80mm
6) Total length required for securing w/o slider = 70mm +/-
7) Total length required for securing w/slider = 100mm +/-

So anyway as I see it, I'm looking at four options.........

1) Forget the sliders and replace the factory bolt with a 70mm bolt.
2) Forget the sliders and replace the factory bolt with a 80mm bolt & nut.
3) Use the sliders and replace original slider bolt with a 100mm bolt.
4) Use the sliders and replace original slider bolt with a 110mm bolt & nut.

To tell you the truth, after seeing the fragility of that mounting point I'm also rethinking the use of sliders and going with case guards.

Don't want to open up the whole Pros vs. Cons of Sliders debate.....just wondering if somebody sees something I might have overlooked for a repair option.

Thanks......

 

[JoeSTL]

During the simple task of putting on frame sliders I stripped out the threads in the left side engine mount. You know, hearing that gut wrenching POP that happens right after your mind is telling you "This just doesn't feel right" as you're pulling on that torque wrench.

Post action observations:
1) Lucky me(?) The mount is a "Hole-Through" type, meaning it doesn't end buried in the case somewhere.
2) The threaded area intended for securing the bolt threads in the engine case are only half stripped because for some odd reason thats only as far as the bolt penetrates (factory as well).
3) 40mm original thread surface / 23mm thread surface remains after strip.
4) Factory bolt length = 50mm.
5) Original slider bolt length = 80mm
6) Total length required for securing w/o slider = 70mm +/-
7) Total length required for securing w/slider = 100mm +/-

So anyway as I see it, I'm looking at four options.........

1) Forget the sliders and replace the factory bolt with a 70mm bolt.
2) Forget the sliders and replace the factory bolt with a 80mm bolt & nut.
3) Use the sliders and replace original slider bolt with a 100mm bolt.
4) Use the sliders and replace original slider bolt with a 110mm bolt & nut.

To tell you the truth, after seeing the fragility of that mounting point I'm also rethinking the use of sliders and going with case guards.

Don't want to open up the whole Pros vs. Cons of Sliders debate.....just wondering if somebody sees something I might have overlooked for a repair option.

Thanks......

Hey, I did the exact same thing to my left side as well when installing my OES frame sliders. I contacted OES and they sent me a 100mm fine threaded bolt and a 110mm coarse threaded bolt with a nut. The coarse threaded bolt would have been perfect size, though I would have had to drill out the mount. I ended out installing the slider with the 100mm fine threaded bolt and had no problems. If I were you I'd try that first, then try the longer bolt and nut if the other solution doesn't work. Once installed the sliders look awesome. Good luck!

 

[ItsAllGood]

It was in fact OES sliders that were going on, the longer version of course. The instructions did mention applying oil to the threads, which I did (a drop) & assumed it was for ease of removal later, however hindsight now suggests maybe it was for ease of installation and should have been applied liberally!!!

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. And I will give OES a call in the morning.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It was in fact OES sliders that were going on, the longer version of course. The instructions did mention applying oil to the threads, which I did (a drop) & assumed it was for ease of removal later, however hindsight now suggests maybe it was for ease of installation and should have been applied liberally!!!

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. And I will give OES a call in the morning.

Adding oil to the threads will generally give a lower torque reading on the torque wrench than what is ACTUALLY being applied..

Besides the shorter bolt (than a longer bolt), at least its on the left side where you can do something with it.

+1 on the above as well. IMHO, I'd torque it without oil, if it seems its going to strip, I'd put the nut behind it...

 

[04fizzer]

Adding oil to the threads will generally give a lower torque reading on the torque wrench than what is ACTUALLY being applied..

Besides the shorter bolt (than a longer bolt), at least its on the left side where you can do something with it.

+1 on the above as well. IMHO, I'd torque it without oil, if it seems its going to strip, I'd put the nut behind it...

Actually, the torque wrench will still read properly, but most of the torques are spec'd "dry". The friction that's removed by oiling the thread will increase the force put on the threads, and cause you to strip them. OES is wrong, or needs to spec a lower torque setting.

To the OP, you can also drill, tap, and install a helicoil to repair the thread. That's what I would do.

 

[adberns]

I'd probably do the "sliders and nut" approach since I had already come that far.

Not to thread hi-jack, but is it common to strip the threads when putting on frame sliders? I have ordered a pair of Motovations, and I have a beam-style torque wrench that I'm going to use. However, I'm starting to worry about stripping threads now, and debating not installing them ...

 

[DownrangeFuture]

I had no issues installing my motovation ones. Can't say about other people.

 

[JoeSTL]

It was in fact OES sliders that were going on, the longer version of course. The instructions did mention applying oil to the threads, which I did (a drop) & assumed it was for ease of removal later, however hindsight now suggests maybe it was for ease of installation and should have been applied liberally!!!

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. And I will give OES a call in the morning.

No problem. Here are a couple pics of my bike after I was able to fix the left side. I think they look great, and the red OES logos go well with my red paint.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Actually, the torque wrench will still read properly, but most of the torques are spec'd "dry". The friction that's removed by oiling the thread will increase the force put on the threads, and cause you to strip them. OES is wrong, or needs to spec a lower torque setting.

To the OP, you can also drill, tap, and install a helicoil to repair the thread. That's what I would do.

That is indeed what I meant to say, just not as clear as you did, thanks..

 

[04fizzer]

That is indeed what I meant to say, just not as clear as you did, thanks..

It's basically the equivalent of over torquing, which is more or less what you said in a round about sort of kind of way. lol

 

[Marthy]

I like to suggest to apply the torque on a stone cold engine. If the engine case is still warm aim for a lower torque value. Aluminum get "softer" when warm. There always more thread than the length of the bolt... Because the tap is kind of taper at the beginning so you need to go deeper with the tap. Before you hammer another bolts in there I will suggest you to clean up the threads with a tap, brake clean and compress air. If there's a bunch of crap in there you might end up with more problem...

Good luck!

 

[04fizzer]

I like to suggest to apply the torque on a stone cold engine. If the engine case is still warm aim for a lower torque value. Aluminum get "softer" when warm. There always more thread than the length of the bolt... Because the tap is kind of taper at the beginning so you need to go deeper with the tap. Before you hammer another bolts in there I will suggest you to clean up the threads with a tap, brake clean and compress air. If there's a bunch of crap in there you might end up with more problem...

Good luck!

If the threads are already stripped, there's no point in tapping it. He's farther ahead repairing the threads with a helicoil. And since the threads are tapped through, there's no need to worry about there not being full thread through the material.

 

[Marthy]

If the threads are already stripped, there's no point in tapping it. He's farther ahead repairing the threads with a helicoil. And since the threads are tapped through, there's no need to worry about there not being full thread through the material.

Keenserts® Keylocking Thread Inserts

I strip bolts in the past and was able to use a longer bolt and it work just fine. I was just suggesting if he do so just to clean the left over thread...

But your right the best thing to do is fix it the right way. Helicoil might do the job but not the best thing since slice bread... A little bit more expensive but the right way to do it in aluminum.

 

[04fizzer]

Keenserts® Keylocking Thread Inserts

I strip bolts in the past and was able to use a longer bolt and it work just fine. I was just suggesting if he do so just to clean the left over thread...

But your right the best thing to do is fix it the right way. Helicoil might do the job but not the best thing since slice bread... A little bit more expensive but the right way to do it in aluminum.

A helicoil is the only practical way to do it. Especially when you're talking about an engine mount bolt. Half a$$ing it is only asking for trouble down the road.

What you're linking to is just another type of thread repair, rather than the helicoil (brand name).

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Heli coiling it would require drilling and tapping the engine tab to the next size larger, then inserting the coil (back to the original size) .

I suspect doing this procedure with the frame in way would likely prevent this unless you have full access to the damaged engine without the frame in the way...

 

[wolfe1down]

I had no issues installing my motovation ones. Can't say about other people.

+ 1. My motovation sliders went on with no issues...

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY S2 INFUSE using Tapatalk 2

 

[Marthy]

A helicoil is the only practical way to do it. Especially when you're talking about an engine mount bolt. Half a$$ing it is only asking for trouble down the road.

What you're linking to is just another type of thread repair, rather than the helicoil (brand name).

I've been machinist/cnc programmer and work on about every type of race car except Nascar for the last 22 years... I like to think I know what I'm talking about a bit... But it looks like your smarter than me Bro... Peace.

 

[Cali rider]

I've been machinist/cnc programmer and work on about every type of race car except Nascar for the last 22 years... I like to think I know what I'm talking about a bit... But it looks like your smarter than me Bro... Peace.

Yes, you DO know what you're talking about!
I like the solid insert as opposed to the helicoil style. I have used E-Z Lok inserts for tooling repairs for years, similar to the Keenserts.

 

[ChevyFazer]

I've been machinist/cnc programmer and work on about every type of race car except Nascar for the last 22 years... I like to think I know what I'm talking about a bit... But it looks like your smarter than me Bro... Peace.

I guess people over here don't know you as well as they do on the "r" side lol

But yeah I've used those keenserts a couple times when i was doing the whole diesel mechanic thing. Everyone that I used had to be put in a CAT C15 block, and they have all proven to hold up great!!!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Is there enough room to install a Keensert, with the frame in the way, being your drilling the damaged area slightly larger?