still have downshift issues, mostly after steady ride

[Ruggybuggy]

Ruggy, IMO you likely need different oil. Switch brands and see what happens. I'm not sure about your "phantom N" but clutch plates can and do stick together at times and it seems to vary by the types of oils as to how bad it gets. Maybe try some approved Dyno oil it????

Can you be specific about what oil is in it and what approvals it has API, CD, blah blah??

Use Rotella 5W40 full synthetic. It's always worked great in my previous bikes.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Ruggy, IMO you likely need different oil. Switch brands and see what happens. I'm not sure about your "phantom N" but clutch plates can and do stick together at times and it seems to vary by the types of oils as to how bad it gets. Maybe try some approved Dyno oil it????

Can you be specific about what oil is in it and what approvals it has API, CD, blah blah??

+1 on the above.

Sounds like your current oil isn't holding up under harder conditions, especially if it only acts up as you mention when very hot.....

Not to start another oil thread, but what kind (brand, weight, etc) is in the engine, if you know?

 

[ChevyFazer]

I would think you would have any issues with rotella, it's worked for everyone else so far. How about your clutch cable and where you have the free play at. If its set to where it releases at the very end of the lever movement then I imagine after a long run it could give you some grief like your describing.

 

[Ruggybuggy]

Clutch free play is good. Remember this only happens after a very long run in hot weather. I don't plan on any long motorcycle trips the rest of the year so I don't expect it to happen again. On the two days it happened the first day I went 1,080 kms in about 10 hours and the second day had traveled 850 kms in about 9 hours. The bike didn't start showing the problem until about 6 hours into the trip.

On a different note I have to buy a new seat. The Yamaha comfort seat sucks. My ass still hurts

 

[iSteve]

I tried Rotella and the only difference i notice was it's cheap. I also tried Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Motul 5100 and in my opinion the 5100 is the only oil out of the above that made a difference in shifting. I just did a oil change this morning and gave the 5100 another try and after the first 50 miles the bike was shifting smoother. I find it hard to believe a synth/dino oil would make any difference over the full synth hype but for me it does.

Just a note about the Motul they use Ester oil this may be why I can tell a difference over the others. I think the next change i'll use the motul 300v with even more ester just to see what happens.

My sincere apologies if I turned this into another oil thread.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I tried Rotella and the only difference i notice was it's cheap. I also tried Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Motul 5100 and in my opinion the 5100 is the only oil out of the above that made a difference in shifting. I just did a oil change this morning and gave the 5100 another try and after the first 50 miles the bike was shifting smoother. I find it hard to believe a synth/dino oil would make any difference over the full synth hype but for me it does.

Just a note about the Motul they use Ester oil this may be why I can tell a difference over the others. I think the next change i'll use the motul 300v with even more ester just to see what happens.

My sincere apologies if I turned this into another oil thread.

Naw, we can go back to the thread.. I've been using 5100 sinced I've owned my FZ and have been happy with it. No shifting issues what so ever. I did recently purchase some Mobile 4t full synthetic for the bike and will be doing an oil change in another 75 miles or so. I'm curious to see what differences, if any I can tell... The Mobil is a bit more expensive than the 5100 but we'll see...

Ok, back to shifting issues...

 

[mellow mark]

I've had a similar issue more times than I want to count. Same as yours, this occurs mostly after either a long, hot, ride (Texas), or a spirited short ride (lots of down-shirting and engine braking). One thing that seems to work is to SLOWLY work the shift lever down and make sure it completely cycles so that it's ready for the lower gear. Unlike you, mine usually occurs on second to first shifts. And, yeah, it's embarassing when you let out the clutch at a light and stall - cuz it doesn't do well starting out in second. I don't think it has anything to do with lubricants (I run 20/50 Castrol), but a lot to do with heat.

 

[FinalImpact]

I was thinking the long runs at speed has centrifugal force basically throwing any shred of oil outwards off the clutch discs. Does anyone know if the main shaft to the clutch feeds it oil constantly???

Think of the pint and the coaster. The thin film of liquid sticks them together so you get to the kitchen for a refill and the coaster drops off after walking for 30 seconds. . .

Ruggy, can you define the neutral between 2nd & 3rd. I mean I had one fateful day when the 2-> 3 upshift went to h e l l and all I heard was gear clash. I kicked it up again and its never done it since. That was about 2000 miles ago this year.

 

[Ruggybuggy]

Ruggy, can you define the neutral between 2nd & 3rd. I mean I had one fateful day when the 2-> 3 upshift went to h e l l and all I heard was gear clash. I kicked it up again and its never done it since. That was about 2000 miles ago this year.

I was just trying to get it to downshift from 6th gear and fighting with it. Pulled the clutch leaver in to drop it into 5th and when I push down on the shifter knew I was going to have a problem because the shifter didn't give the clunk indicating a positive shift. The shift leaver seem to have a shorter stroke. Engaged the clutch and it made the shift into 5th. It acted the same way on the rest of the downshifts but when I released the cluch on the 3rd to 2nd shift instantly notice I didn't have any engine braking. I pulled in the clutch leaver in and looked for the green nuetral light which wasn't on then I pushed down on the shifter and release the clutch and it went into second. Also when I made the next shift into first it never when into first. It would go to nuetral, I would release the clutch, reapply and could make the shift into first.

If the clutch plates were sticking together you would think that pulling in the clutch leaver the bike would still feel that it was still in gear?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I was thinking the long runs at speed has centrifugal force basically throwing any shred of oil outwards off the clutch discs. Does anyone know if the main shaft to the clutch feeds it oil constantly???

QUOTE]

Page 2-25 thru 2-29 shows the oil path. Oil does flow thru the the main shaft, that the clutch rides on, however it doesn't show specifically where/if it dumps onto the clutch basket. I suspect its just flung aroung the clutch plates and everything else inside the cover...

The shifter mechanism has some collors that Yamaha has you check for wear, besides the actual shifter arm/roller, etc (where the splinded shifter shaft exits the case on the left side). Might be worth a look to peek inside and check everything for smoothness, etc... If the pull/push part of the shifter is worn/sloppy, it won't fully rotate the shifter drum causing shifting problems...

 

[FinalImpact]

I was thinking the long runs at speed has centrifugal force basically throwing any shred of oil outwards off the clutch discs. Does anyone know if the main shaft to the clutch feeds it oil constantly???

Page 2-25 thru 2-29 shows the oil path. Oil does flow thru the the main shaft, that the clutch rides on, however it doesn't show specially where/if it dumps onto the clutch basket. I suspect its just flung around the clutch plates and everything else inside the cover...

The shifter mechanism has some collors that Yamaha has you check for wear, besides the actual shifter arm/roller, etc (where the splinded shifter shaft exits the case on the left side). Might be worth a look to peek inside and check everything for smoothness, etc... If the pull/push part of the shifter is worn/sloppy, it won't fully rotate the shifter drum causing shifting problems...

It's prolly just new boots for the shift error. . . lol

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

or a dirty header!

Back to the thread...

 

[FinalImpact]

or a dirty header!

Back to the thread...

Hi Scott,
To better fulfill your dream of having my headers shine "like yours" I created this dandy little itinerary for you and the Fiz!
If you leave by morning its meager 3,055 miles or about 49 hours of saddle time to ride up here! Then you can shine my headers. . . knowing you'll need some breaks I expect to see you by Friday!
PS - don't forget the rags and polish!


Driving directions to P o r t l a n d, OR from Tampa, FL opcorn:
1. Head east on
6. Merge onto I-75 N Entering Georgia
353 mi
7. Take exit 156 on the left to merge onto I-475 N toward Atlanta
15.8 mi
8. Merge onto I-75 N
72.3 mi
9. Continue straight to stay on I-75 NEntering Tennessee
106 mi
10. Take exit 2 on the left to merge onto I-24 W toward Chattanooga/Nashville
6.2 mi
11. Slight left to stay on I-24 WPassing through Georgia
Entering Tennessee
131 mi
12. Slight right to stay on I-24 W (signs for Clarksville/Louisville/Interstate 65 N)
3.1 mi
13. Merge onto I-65 N
1.8 mi
14. Slight left onto I-24 W (signs for Clarksville/Interstate 24 W)Passing through Kentucky
Entering Illinois
176 mi
15. Merge onto I-57 N
51.9 mi
16. Slight left onto I-64 W (signs for St Louis)
71.3 mi
17. Merge onto I-70 WEntering Missouri
2.6 mi
18. Continue onto I-64 W
39.8 mi
19. Continue onto US-40 W/US-61 N
0.5 mi
20. Take the exit onto I-70 W/US-40 W toward Kansas City Continue to follow I-70 W
201 mi
21. Take exit 8B to merge onto I-435 N toward Des Moines
28.5 mi
22. Merge onto I-29 N Entering Iowa
120 mi
23. Take exit 10 for IA-2 toward Sidney/Nebr City
0.2 mi
24. Turn left onto NE-2 W/IA-2 W Continue to follow NE-2 W
Entering Nebraska
53.3 mi
25. Turn left onto E Van Dorn St (signs for US-77/I-80/Nebraska 2/West Van Dorn Street)
1.2 mi
26. Merge onto US-77 N/Homestead Expy/Rte 77 N via the ramp to I-80
2.5 mi
27. Keep left at the fork, follow signs for I-80 W and merge onto I-80 W Passing through Wyoming
Entering Utah
828 mi << 828 miles - Yer butt's gonna hurt
28. Slight right onto I-84 W (signs for Ogden)
39.0 mi
29. Merge onto I-15 N
38.7 mi
30. Continue straight onto I-84 W (signs for Boise) Passing through Idaho
Entering Oregon
692 mi << more pain and suffering. . .
P o r t l a n d, OR


PS - first :iconbeer: is on me!

//return to thread. . .

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hi Scott,
To better fulfill your dream of having my headers shine "like yours" I created this dandy little itinerary for you and the Fiz!
If you leave by morning its meager 3,055 miles or about 49 hours of saddle time to ride up here! Then you can shine my headers. . . knowing you'll need some breaks I expect to see you by Friday!
PS - don't forget the rags and polish!


Driving directions to P o r t l a n d, OR from Tampa, FL opcorn:
1. Head east on
6. Merge onto I-75 N Entering Georgia
353 mi
7. Take exit 156 on the left to merge onto I-475 N toward Atlanta
15.8 mi
8. Merge onto I-75 N
72.3 mi
9. Continue straight to stay on I-75 NEntering Tennessee
106 mi
10. Take exit 2 on the left to merge onto I-24 W toward Chattanooga/Nashville
6.2 mi
11. Slight left to stay on I-24 WPassing through Georgia
Entering Tennessee
131 mi
12. Slight right to stay on I-24 W (signs for Clarksville/Louisville/Interstate 65 N)
3.1 mi
13. Merge onto I-65 N
1.8 mi
14. Slight left onto I-24 W (signs for Clarksville/Interstate 24 W)Passing through Kentucky
Entering Illinois
176 mi
15. Merge onto I-57 N
51.9 mi
16. Slight left onto I-64 W (signs for St Louis)
71.3 mi
17. Merge onto I-70 WEntering Missouri
2.6 mi
18. Continue onto I-64 W
39.8 mi
19. Continue onto US-40 W/US-61 N
0.5 mi
20. Take the exit onto I-70 W/US-40 W toward Kansas City Continue to follow I-70 W
201 mi
21. Take exit 8B to merge onto I-435 N toward Des Moines
28.5 mi
22. Merge onto I-29 N Entering Iowa
120 mi
23. Take exit 10 for IA-2 toward Sidney/Nebr City
0.2 mi
24. Turn left onto NE-2 W/IA-2 W Continue to follow NE-2 W
Entering Nebraska
53.3 mi
25. Turn left onto E Van Dorn St (signs for US-77/I-80/Nebraska 2/West Van Dorn Street)
1.2 mi
26. Merge onto US-77 N/Homestead Expy/Rte 77 N via the ramp to I-80
2.5 mi
27. Keep left at the fork, follow signs for I-80 W and merge onto I-80 W Passing through Wyoming
Entering Utah
828 mi << 828 miles - Yer butt's gonna hurt
28. Slight right onto I-84 W (signs for Ogden)
39.0 mi
29. Merge onto I-15 N
38.7 mi
30. Continue straight onto I-84 W (signs for Boise) Passing through Idaho
Entering Oregon
692 mi << more pain and suffering. . .
P o r t l a n d, OR


PS - first :iconbeer: is on me!

//return to thread. . .

Better yet, ship me the header!!! Its too hot up there!! The polish is on me!!

 

[tyler2011]

I have done several longer trips on the order of 6-7hrs riding starting with 95+ def F temperatures with about 4hrs of 70-80mph on the highway (yea I know... ) and have not had down shifting problems when getting off for the toll. What speeds are you trying your downshifts at? I find that if I try to click down at to slow of a speed it doesn't want to go. My 3rd to 2nd shift ends up being at around 15mph then 1st when at a slow roll before the foot goes down.

For the oil notes before I have run yamalube and valvoline motorcycle oil. Both 10w40. I'm not fully convinced synthetic oil is any better provided you regularly change your oil. It's the contaminants and anti-corrosion parts that break down first. Also have ~10,000mi seat time on the FZ. Did once find a false neutral on an upshift but was my fault for not fully pulling up on the shifter. that made a horrible clunk.

 

[FinalImpact]

I have done several longer trips on the order of 6-7hrs riding starting with 95+ def F temperatures with about 4hrs of 70-80mph on the highway (yea I know... ) and have not had down shifting problems when getting off for the toll. What speeds are you trying your downshifts at? I find that if I try to click down at to slow of a speed it doesn't want to go. My 3rd to 2nd shift ends up being at around 15mph then 1st when at a slow roll before the foot goes down.

For the oil notes before I have run yamalube and valvoline motorcycle oil. Both 10w40. I'm not fully convinced synthetic oil is any better provided you regularly change your oil. It's the contaminants and anti-corrosion parts that break down first. Also have ~10,000mi seat time on the FZ. Did once find a false neutral on an upshift but was my fault for not fully pulling up on the shifter. that made a horrible clunk.

Down shifting off the freeway I found I tend to hold the throttle around 4k and shift down in progressive steps spanning the changes out over time until i'm into 3, and then rev match the lower gears. The bike doesn't even know what happened!

 

[Ruggybuggy]

QUOTE]The shifter mechanism has some collors that Yamaha has you check for wear, besides the actual shifter arm/roller, etc (where the splinded shifter shaft exits the case on the left side). Might be worth a look to peek inside and check everything for smoothness, etc... If the pull/push part of the shifter is worn/sloppy, it won't fully rotate the shifter drum causing shifting problems...[/QUOTE]

You would think that if there were worn parts that the problem would show itself regardless of temp. It's not worth taking it apart when the bike works perfect and this only happens every time the bike is rode more than 800kms. It's more of an inconvenience than a problem.

Simple problems should have simple solutions.

 

[FinalImpact]

I was thinking the long runs at speed has centrifugal force basically throwing any shred of oil outwards off the clutch discs. Does anyone know if the main shaft to the clutch feeds it oil constantly???

QUOTE]

Page 2-25 thru 2-29 shows the oil path. Oil does flow thru the the main shaft, that the clutch rides on, however it doesn't show specifically where/if it dumps onto the clutch basket. I suspect its just flung aroung the clutch plates and everything else inside the cover...

The shifter mechanism has some collors that Yamaha has you check for wear, besides the actual shifter arm/roller, etc (where the splinded shifter shaft exits the case on the left side). Might be worth a look to peek inside and check everything for smoothness, etc... If the pull/push part of the shifter is worn/sloppy, it won't fully rotate the shifter drum causing shifting problems...

Stumbled upon this:
07 Service manual shows 2-33 (pdf pg 56) the clutch steel/friction plates are being oiled from the main shaft. There TINY little arrows in the pic. Doesn't solve anything unless they are plugged. . . /partially plugged which might lead to something of this nature.

 

[Hondo64d]

Clutch free play is good. Remember this only happens after a very long run in hot weather.

My bike started doing this exact same thing within the last two days. Doesn't have to get very hot, only operating temperature, which is usually in the upper 170s or lower 180s. I don't think it's a technique or oil issue, as I have owned this bike since new and have just under 21,000 miles on it. I have always used either Rotella or synthetic Rotella, changing it every 3000 miles. I'm thinking I'm going to have to break it open to solve this mystery...

John

 

[Ssky0078]

I have experienced this problem a few times now with my bike. I have experienced the "false neutral between 2nd and 3rd" a few times. I am able to down shift 6th to 5th, then 4th going into 3rd. A couple time it happened here because I would just get engive rev with the clutch out (I would upshift engage the clutch, then down shift again and this would fix it). Then another couple of times in 3rd going into 2nd

The first times I got the issue with the shift lever being stuck occurred when I was being a noob and lazy and not downshifting. I stalled out at a light 3 times over 2 days (in AZ where our surface streets are 45 mph and surrounded by lifted trucks and SUVs). So, I started down shifting and basically put it in 10 mile increments keeping the throttle at about 2k-3k. 5th gear -50, 4th gear-40, 3rd gear-30, 2nd gear-20, and 1st gear around 10. It seems to help. However I did experience it today once after about 170 miles in on a 260 mile ride where we were hauling ass 65-125 for about 50 miles.

I'm changing my oil tomorrow to Yamalube SemiSyn 10w-50 (again AZ, it is still hitting the 80s after thanksgiving, air temp on my bike today said 100).

Thanks for the thread