still have downshift issues, mostly after steady ride

[ChevyFazer]

When you down shift are you trying to go form 5th to 1st stopped or close to stopped? If you are then this normal, you need to downshift as your speed decreases or you will constantly be facing this problem. My bike does the same exact thing if I'm above 3rd gear under 30mph.

 

[Dave.TX]

Are you saying your drained oil smells of gasoline? That could be piston rings not sealing or similar. Could be the bike sat for a long time and gas seeped down past the rings into the crankcase. Gas in the oil could cause problems, for sure.

 

[FinalImpact]

Tell us WHAT RPMs you really ride at! I am very curious. . . If your rev's never see 4000 RPM it could be you're simply in too high of gear. I mean 2nd will get us to 90mph!

If I were a betting person I'd say what ever oil is in it, the clutch doesn't like it. Potentially you may not be revVing it much. Open it up in the lower gears. . . and rev match all the way down to fist gear when you stop.
Coming to a stop in anything but 1st gear is asking for this type of behavior.

Lastly, its a spring loaded mechanism. If you have new boots and are potentially not letting the shifter spring back to its center position its not going to select a different gear no matter how many times you pounce on it.


Those are the things that come to mind. . .

 

[kennedyted]

well i love the sound of my exhaust, when i wanna get stupid ill hit up to 12 in 1st then lower in 2nd, but not when downshifting, try to do it with low enough speed yet quick enough for a nice sound from the pressure

 

[Randomchaos]

What gear are you usually in around town? On the highway?

 

[ChevyFazer]

^^^This^^^

id still like to know this as well, if you could give us a little more detail of exactly when this is happening we could give you better answers. For instance, when you say your on the highway in 5th but aproaching the exit and it happend, what speed were you going on the highway? how did you approach the exit? pull the clutch in and coast to the exit and begin downshifting when your close to being stoped or just let off the gas staying in 5th and downshift when? or start down shifting as you approach the exit using engine braking to slow your bike? i know you had mentioned that you down shift normal in another thread but your idea of normal might be differnt from others idea of normal. My "normal" downshifting style is from 4-6 if im slowing down once the bike gets no lower then about 6k i down shift, and for 1-3 i normaly like to keep it a little higher for better engine brakeing.

 

[kananaskis]

I had a similar issue when I picked up my FZ6.
It was after running at sustained highway speeds that it would "get stuck" in 6th gear. If I let the bike cool down a bit the transmission would release and allow me to shift the gears around.
It ended up happening a LOT when I was on a cross-country tour back in 09. I limped the bike into Black Hills Powersports in South Dakota and told them what was happening and they lubed up the linkages and swapped my oil for full synthetic. When the Black Hills people swapped the oil they noted that it was very degraded considering it had been changed only 4000KM before... They figured the previous dealership (where I had picked up the bike a week or so from before the trip ) had put in ****ty oil (probably automotive 5w30 or somthing) and they suggested the oil was allowing the plates to get seized together...
Fwiw, I have run full syn since that issue and not noticed any further issues with it releasing out of gear.
Hope this doesnt make this thread take off on another oil tangent. Haha
CHeers

 

[Randomchaos]

I had a similar issue when I picked up my FZ6.
It was after running at sustained highway speeds that it would "get stuck" in 6th gear. If I let the bike cool down a bit the transmission would release and allow me to shift the gears around.
It ended up happening a LOT when I was on a cross-country tour back in 09. I limped the bike into Black Hills Powersports in South Dakota and told them what was happening and they lubed up the linkages and swapped my oil for full synthetic. When the Black Hills people swapped the oil they noted that it was very degraded considering it had been changed only 4000KM before... They figured the previous dealership (where I had picked up the bike a week or so from before the trip ) had put in ****ty oil (probably automotive 5w30 or somthing) and they suggested the oil was allowing the plates to get seized together...
Fwiw, I have run full syn since that issue and not noticed any further issues with it releasing out of gear.
Hope this doesnt make this thread take off on another oil tangent. Haha
CHeers

Good info!

 

[pookamatic]

I too have noticed downshift problems which I think could be related to the oil I'm using or my technique:

Problem/technique
I'm a low-rev rider typically, especially on the commute looking for mpg. Coming to a light say at 50mph in 6th, I engine brake (front/rear if necessary) until ~20mph, clutch in, downshift all the way to first (usually close to stopped by 1st). No rev matching, clutch in the whole time... well, you could say I'm speed matching, as idle rpm is close to sync'd with the gears I'm going through. The problem is usually getting out of the top gear I've been riding in (be it 6th, 5th, etc). Shifter goes down and returns but it doesn't engage the next gear down. A clutch out as others have mentioned fixes the issue, but it's not ideal and isn't safe when unexpected. This is especially true when the light turns green before the problem is resolved.

Oil
Changed oil to M1 15w-50... For all the oil threads on here, NO weight stands out as being definitively correct. I believe owners manuals vary from year to year, then we have people saying on the forum that the dealer put in a recommended 20w50 which isn't in any manual that I know of. Not trying to start a conversation on this, just sayin. I'll probably change oil-only to M1 10w40 in a week, and chalk this last few liters as a $20 oil flush. Another thing to note is that I may have a bit too much oil in it, despite the fact that I only put in ~2.6 liters (2.8 manual) fully drained it (warm, 30 minutes drain plug off). Dipstick reads above max on center stand.

 

[ChevyFazer]

I too have noticed downshift problems which I think could be related to the oil I'm using or my technique:

Problem/technique
Coming to a light say at 50mph in 6th, I engine brake (front/rear if necessary) until ~20mph, clutch in, downshift all the way to first (usually close to stopped by 1st). No rev matching, clutch in the whole time...

.

That's what is causing your issue, if you would down shift as you slow down that won't happen. In other words you said your going 50ish in 6th, as soon as you start to slow down begin down shifting. For one it's not very safe to be in 6th gear at 20mph, if a car started to come flying up on your rear or any other reason you would have no way to get out of there. You should be in at least 3rd by the time your going 30. And I guarantee you if you change your down shifting style/how you slow down you will no longer have this problem and be safer at the same time.

 

[greg]

also using the engine to brake will improve mileage figures, besides that fact that it's quite easy to get a decent mpg out of it even when giving it beans

 

[pookamatic]

I don't like downshifting because I'm lazy and if feels like I'm unnecessarily wearing on her (I know... not a problem). And I read this:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/trac...nshift-not-downshift-question.html#post475829

The consensus here is that just about everyone downshifts, and for a few reasons. Safety, third brake, sound (in that order). If you ask me, I'd say it's the opposite. But what do I know? I'm a new rider. So I'll defer to the experienced. Besides, if it does nothing else than fix my intermittent lack of downshift, well then it really is safer!

So if you see a guy in the Wilmington DE area on a cobalt FZ6 looking like he's riding a bucking bronco, hi. :thumbup:

 

[kennedyted]

thats what i was getting at, i understand that downshifting all at once or quickly repeatedly,will cause those issues, but when it was doing it to me it would even do it when i downshifted using the engine for brake/sound, let the speed dissipate and downshift again, which is why i was getting a little irked, maybe i explained badly

 

[FinalImpact]

This thread is an eye opener! Some of you should drive a Big Block Stick shift (wide ratio gearing) with a few passengers in it. If you don't rev match during downshifts everyone flies through the windshield! :BLAA:


Suggestion: Learn how to shift UP and Down in manner such that you don't feel the shift! Practice on making it smooth like an Automatic in luxury car! FWIW: on the freeway at 55mph I'm likely NOT in 6th. Hell I may not be in 5th. I want some acceleration to be available should I need it. but that's just me.

 

[kennedyted]

yeah speed limit on thruway is 65 min, troopers let bikes get away with 80-85 or so from erie to ny

 

[Darken Dioxen]

I had a similar issue down shifting into first...as I approached the stop everything was downshifting ok...but I couldn't get it into first at the stop. I finally just gave a little extra throttle(MAYBE 1000 rpm), pushed down on the shifter and partially released the clutch and it popped in hard. It felt like it was running hot and something didn't want to synch....after I changed my oil it has happened since.

 

[Ruggybuggy]

Anyone find out a solution for the downshift problem after a long run. I had the issue on a tour I just completed. Only showed up after a long run 900 kms and hot weather. Would do perfect upshift with a good solid cluck but when trying to downshift the shifter would not have a positive engagement and a couple of times it would find a phantom nuetral between 2nd and 3rd. Once the motor cooled down it shifted normal. Using Rotella 5W40 and the oil has about 5,000 km on it. Bike has about 12,000 km.

Come to think, I changed the oil the day before I left. The total trip put 5,500 kms on the oil. The first two days I traveled were very warm but never had a shifting issue. Wonder if it's a problem with the oil getting old. Also the last part of my tour I had very long runs in 6th gear with no shifting. Wonder if the clutch plates started sticking together because of the heat. The first two days were long runs but I was on secondary roads so more shifting involved.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Anyone find out a solution for the downshift problem after a long run. I had the issue on a tour I just completed. Only showed up after a long run 900 kms and hot weather. Would do perfect upshift with a good solid cluck but when trying to downshift the shifter would not have a positive engagement and a couple of times it would find a phantom nuetral between 2nd and 3rd. Once the motor cooled down it shifted normal. Using Rotella 5W40 and the oil has about 5,000 km on it. Bike has about 12,000 km.

Come to think, I changed the oil the day before I left. The total trip put 5,500 kms on the oil. The first two days I traveled were very warm but never had a shifting issue. Wonder if it's a problem with the oil getting old. Also the last part of my tour I had very long runs in 6th gear with no shifting. Wonder if the clutch plates started sticking together because of the heat. The first two days were long runs but I was on secondary roads so more shifting involved.

Oil can very well have an effect on it but as mentioned by Chevyfazer, Final Impact and others, when decelerating, slowly down shift accordingly with the slowing speed.. **DO NOT WAIT UNTIL STOPPED ***to go from 6th gear to 1st. Its the way the engine is designed. MY FJR would do the same thing if driven in this manner.

Should you find yourself in this situation, gently letting the clutch out just a little (to get the output shaft gears to mesh with the always driven gears), pull back in the lever should allow you to downshift at a stop. You may have to repeat the clutch pulling. A loose chain will exasperate the problem as well

The WORST thing you can do, DOWNSHIFT ALL AT ONCE AT SPEED (IE 60 MPH). Pull in the clutch as you slow and downshift one gear at a time as your speed slows. Even thou the clutch is pulled in, you still have the transmission shafts spinning super fast. A lot of folks may not realize, even thou the clutch is pulled in, the transmission IS ALWAYS TURNING, it is directly attached to the engine (by gears of course). The clutch is simply allowing the smooth transition between the two shafts/gears(the engine turning shaft and the sprocket/output shaft).

IMHO, I let the engine, depending on conditions/traffic, do most of the stopping with engine braking (down to around 2-3k RPM's). Again, as I slow, downshift ONE GEAR at a time, and let the clutch out, keep slowing.. Keep repeating until stopped and you shouldn't have a problem...

If not using the brakes, (downshifting/engine braking) apply your brakes at least lightly to illuminate your brake light for the guy behind you..

**Letting the clutch lever out after EACH downshift, confirms your in a lower gear...

 

[Ruggybuggy]

Oil can very well have an effect on it but as mentioned by Chevyfazer, Final Impact and others, when decelerating, slowly down shift accordingly with the slowing speed.. **DO NOT WAIT UNTIL STOPPED ***to go from 6th gear to 1st. Its the way the engine is designed. MY FJR would do the same thing if driven in this manner.

Should you find yourself in this situation, gently letting the clutch out just a little (to get the output shaft gears to mesh with the always driven gears), pull back in the lever should allow you to downshift at a stop. You may have to repeat the clutch pulling. A loose chain will exasperate the problem as well

The WORST thing you can do, DOWNSHIFT ALL AT ONCE AT SPEED (IE 60 MPH). Pull in the clutch as you slow and downshift one gear at a time as your speed slows. Even thou the clutch is pulled in, you still have the transmission shafts spinning super fast. A lot of folks may not realize, even thou the clutch is pulled in, the transmission IS ALWAYS TURNING, it is directly attached to the engine (by gears of course). The clutch is simply allowing the smooth transition between the two shafts/gears(the engine turning shaft and the sprocket/output shaft).

IMHO, I let the engine, depending on conditions/traffic, do most of the stopping with engine braking (down to around 2-3k RPM's). Again, as I slow, downshift ONE GEAR at a time, and let the clutch out, keep slowing.. Keep repeating until stopped and you shouldn't have a problem...

If not using the brakes, (downshifting/engine braking) apply your brakes at least lightly to illuminate your brake light for the guy behind you..

**Letting the clutch lever out after EACH downshift, confirms your in a lower gear...

I do downshift as I'm slowing down. The bike works perfect on shorter runs. This only happened when the bike has been run for an extended period of time in warm weather. I downshift it the same way every time but only had the problem after a long run. I've only had the FZ6 since the spring and this was the first tour I took with the bike. My previous touring bikes never exhibited this problem

 

[FinalImpact]

Ruggy, IMO you likely need different oil. Switch brands and see what happens. I'm not sure about your "phantom N" but clutch plates can and do stick together at times and it seems to vary by the types of oils as to how bad it gets. Maybe try some approved Dyno oil it????

Can you be specific about what oil is in it and what approvals it has API, CD, blah blah??