Somethin Fishy with the Temps - Supsect T-Stat

[Gelvatron]

Just to help the reason you new a cap to hold pressure is

per 1 psi water increases its boiling point 3.2 degrees F

So if your cap is 5 psi to low the drop in temp the water / coolant can reach is 15 psi making It boil sooner and over flow causing your symptom over heating,

Also when diagnosing try to not to get caught up trouble shooting the symptom try to trouble shoot whats causing that symptom

 

[FinalImpact]

Just to help the reason you new a cap to hold pressure is

per 1 psi water increases its boiling point 3.2 degrees F

So if your cap is 5 psi to low the drop in temp the water / coolant can reach is 15 psi making It boil sooner and over flow causing your symptom over heating,

Also when diagnosing try to not to get caught up trouble shooting the symptom try to trouble shoot whats causing that symptom

So lets say the Block is completely full. In real life what you would see as it warms up with a bad cap or one below the desired pressure is fluid being pushed out while in fact the engine is not actually overheating. An example is it boils over into the res before the fans come on at 205-210F. However, Just because the TEMP gauge reads a 180F, that doesn't mean there are not HOT SPOTS in the cylinder head that are actually boiling while others areas are not. The HOT SPOTS now create vapor expanding the volume in the block which pushes water and steam past the cap below the set pressure.

If you pull the cap on a cold engine and the radiator/block is always full, its very likely the cap is fine.

Pook, does yours push water into the Res?

 

[pookamatic]

Pook, does yours push water into the Res?

I can't say for sure, but only a few days after changing the coolant, I noticed the reservoir was halfway between full and empty. That could be just air bubbles, or it could have forced a little boil over, and after cooling, pulled some back from the recovery tank.

I have the cap on order from partzilla. Speaking of partzilla, don't use partzilla. They're in the same circle of boats.net, and I believe people have had issues with them in the past. Crappy online ecommerce interface, sluggish email responses, and unbearable delivery times. After waiting 4 days for a tracking number, I emailed them. ~8 hours later I received a message stating that one part was on backorder with no indication of when it will be shipped.

They *did* offer to mail the remaining pieces that they do have on hand, but I still have yet to receive a tracking number, or really any indication of when I might get the parts. It's been 7 days since I ordered, and the bike has been apart since Sunday night.

 

[pookamatic]

Heard back from PZ

----------------
Hello,

Unfortunately part 10-3P6-21875-00-00 (reservoir cap) is currently on back order until the 2nd of June, if you like we can ship all the other items on the 26th once we receive in 10-1B3-12462-00-00 (radiator cap)
----------------

So now I'm on the fence... put her back together and ride until I get the first order next week or piss and moan every time I walk past my partially disassembled bike.

I think the weather will force me to put her back together. At least I'll get more practice taking the t-stat out!

 

[Ohendo]

-1 to Partzilla. Boooooo.

 

[FinalImpact]

Heard back from PZ

----------------
Hello,

Unfortunately part 10-3P6-21875-00-00 (reservoir cap) is currently on back order until the 2nd of June, if you like we can ship all the other items on the 26th once we receive in 10-1B3-12462-00-00 (radiator cap)
----------------

So now I'm on the fence... put her back together and ride until I get the first order next week or piss and moan every time I walk past my partially disassembled bike.

I think the weather will force me to put her back together. At least I'll get more practice taking the t-stat out!

You call any Yamaha Dealers? They Can Locate for you!! I'd put it all back. Make sure the Bleed Hole is UP when the stat Goes IN!!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I wouldn't be waiting, being THEY DON'T HAVE THE PART, have them ship what they have so you can re-assemble and later ship the radiator cap (at thier cost). If they won't go for that, cancel either the whole order or just the cap

Actually thet would be better as you get to test some parts and see if it makes ANY difference. Throwing ALL the parts on at once, you won't know what the specific issue was...:thumbup:


+1 on the bleed hole upwards too!

 

[pookamatic]

All back together with the original parts, bleed UP (just like it was). I dreaded it but actually, am starting to enjoy the work. Once all the unknowns are out of the picture, it's just a matter of putting some tunes on and turning a wrench.

Temps were 50-55 on the way in. Once up to temp, it never dropped below 160, and never got above 192.

I really think it's running warmer than it should, but the 192 is a special case... 8 miles of highway, moving at highway speeds, immediately followed by 2 miles of sitting in 0-20 mph traffic. The radiator just doesn't have a chance to be effective. Time will tell if the cap/stat have an effect.

 

[FinalImpact]

All back together with the original parts, bleed UP (just like it was). I dreaded it but actually, am starting to enjoy the work. Once all the unknowns are out of the picture, it's just a matter of putting some tunes on and turning a wrench.

Temps were 50-55 on the way in. Once up to temp, it never dropped below 160, and never got above 192.

I really think it's running warmer than it should, but the 192 is a special case... 8 miles of highway, moving at highway speeds, immediately followed by 2 miles of sitting in 0-20 mph traffic. The radiator just doesn't have a chance to be effective. Time will tell if the cap/stat have an effect.

Rode mine to work today. Temp on the way in was 47F, bike was riding the opening temp hovering at 164F while doing 70mph. As traffic slowed and waiting at lights an such - 194F. << Those were short waits too. Maybe just 4 min or so?

Ride home will be in the mid 70's and lots more stop and go.

 

[motojoe122]

I thought about the temp rise today...
I remember in one of the million oil threads that certain oil will allow the bike to run hotter. I use the Rotella T6 and my temps come up a bit. This is compared to Mobil 1 that I ran a few changes ago. Could this be related or just coincidence?

AND I'M NOT STARTING AN OIL WAR:BLAA:

 

[pookamatic]

I don't know, joe. I interpreted that as, "My oil is the best. It adds 14 hp, improves handling, visibility, AND adds all wheel drive!!!1!! Don't even get me started on how many additional chicks flock..."

Just typing from the hip, I'd say oil brand would have little or no effect. Viscosity could, but I don't think it would be very much.

 

[FinalImpact]

Update - still on the ORIGINAL STAT but here is what iv'e seen with relation to outdoor temps and my riding style.

When the outdoor temp is in lower 50s, at speed the bike stays right around the 160F opening set point. It may climb upwards of 190 but doesn't stay long unless idling for 5+ minutes.

When the outdoor temp is in mid 70s, at speed the bike stays right around the 180 ~ 185F FULLY open set point. It quickly climbs upwards of 200F when idling in traffic. If stopped at a light it clicks off about a degree per second until the fan comes on at 205 ~ 210F (3 minutes tops). It basically stays there until air flow is established and then comes down 10F after 3 minutes of movement.

In short, it teeters on the edge. Again, I suspect the stat is neither fully closing or opening. As a test, the next time its in the 50F I'm going to block off 1/2 the radiators air flow and see if that gets the temp to 185. My goal, determine the capacity of the system. Does this action push it over the edge into over-heating turning the fan on what??? Perhaps its time to monitor the oil temp also!

 

[motojoe122]

Update - still on the ORIGINAL STAT but here is what iv'e seen with relation to outdoor temps and my riding style.

When the outdoor temp is in lower 50s, at speed the bike stays right around the 160F opening set point. It may climb upwards of 190 but doesn't stay long unless idling for 5+ minutes.

When the outdoor temp is in mid 70s, at speed the bike stays right around the 180 ~ 185F FULLY open set point. It quickly climbs upwards of 200F when idling in traffic. If stopped at a light it clicks off about a degree per second until the fan comes on at 205 ~ 210F (3 minutes tops). It basically stays there until air flow is established and then comes down 10F after 3 minutes of movement.

In short, it teeters on the edge. Again, I suspect the stat is neither fully closing or opening. As a test, the next time its in the 50F I'm going to block off 1/2 the radiators air flow and see if that gets the temp to 185. My goal, determine the capacity of the system. Does this action push it over the edge into over-heating turning the fan on what??? Perhaps its time to monitor the oil temp also!

Fleabay has those oil temp gauges that replace the oil fill cap. BenH has one, I remember looking at it on one of the NJ rides.

 

[fb40dash5]

I have an S1, so I can't tell you exact coolant temps. But I can say what you described there sounds pretty standard compared to mine. Any ambient temps north of "coolish" means the fan is coming on at longer stoplights and such. Think about it, you've got a 90+ horsepower engine, with a radiator probably 1/8th the size of a car with similar power. The thermal capacity just isn't there without forced airflow, and it doesn't generally need to be.

Keep in mind 210 degrees isn't really overheating... that's not even boiling pure, unpressurized water, let alone antifreeze at 15psi or so.

 

[FinalImpact]

I have an S1, so I can't tell you exact coolant temps. But I can say what you described there sounds pretty standard compared to mine. Any ambient temps north of "coolish" means the fan is coming on at longer stoplights and such. Think about it, you've got a 90+ horsepower engine, with a radiator probably 1/8th the size of a car with similar power. The thermal capacity just isn't there without forced airflow, and it doesn't generally need to be.

Keep in mind 210 degrees isn't really overheating... that's not even boiling pure, unpressurized water, let alone antifreeze at 15psi or so.

Thanks, and agree it seems pretty typical. When I got the bike in 2011 and early rides in 2012 the temps were lower. So this WHOLE THREAD on my part is about CHANGE. It is different than it was and I wanted to find out why.
What I have noticed is it seems like the crankcase itself is hotter - increased oil temps. Running Amsoil 10-40wt.

 

[pookamatic]

So I got all the parts on (stat, radiator cap, reservoir cap and bottle). Before I did, I boiled the stat. Didn't notice a huge difference. It did appear to open slightly more above 180 that the original. The new one's spring felt firmer. These are subjective, however.

On the way in to work (~52F), temps looked normal. Weird thing I never noticed before (then again, I wasn't looking all that hard)... when I came to a light, the temps would inch up to 175, stop, then drop to 173, then start to slowly climb as normal.

And as luck would have it, I hit zero traffic! Only day I wanted to hit traffic EVER. There will be plenty more if the near future.

I just checked the reservoir. It's visibly lower than I filled it last night (maybe a couple ounces). However this was on the side stand and on a different sloped surface. Filled it on center. Will check again tonight.

 

[pookamatic]

FYI. Stock bottle (5 years old, 18k miles) vs new.

View attachment 47916

 

[pookamatic]

I just checked the reservoir. It's visibly lower than I filled it last night (maybe a couple ounces). However this was on the side stand and on a different sloped surface. Filled it on center. Will check again tonight.

FYI - another late ride in today so not much traffic to speak of. I will say that I can guarantee that my radiator cap was getting weak. I verified that no coolant went missing once I checked the level after 60 miles of riding (both times checked cold in the garage).

For reference, the temp read a steady 166F while moving at 73mph indicated with an ambient of 53F. Rotella T6.