Possible battery failure?

[Water Bear]

Hello everybody. I broke my bike again. [emoji41]

A few weeks ago I was on a long road trip. I had installed a cheap chinese USB outlet that I believe shorted out and subsequently my bike died in stop and go traffix. I got it charged at an O Reilley and all was good.

Fast forward to now. Bike sat for two weeks. This morning I took it for a ride. When I cranked it sounded odd, like I could hear the usual engine noises coming from near the header or top emd instead of out of the exhaust. The note was maybe a bit deeper than usual, too.

Disclaimer: I replaced the clutch cable last weekend and removed and reinstalled the air box in the process.

Anyway on the ride back home the check engine light comes on...then while waiting at a traffic light the bike dies. I roll it onto the sidewalk and jump it with a portable jumpstarter battery thing. I'm trying to keep it around 3k RPM to keep it from dying (I'm close to home by now) and then get stuck in bad traffic. My choices are overheat or die, so I overheat. Manage to limp into a tiny parking lot as a plastic tube in the radiator circuit melts and leaks fluid (that, at least, is an easy fix).

Battery definitely needs replacing since it's Li-ion and has died twice. My question is, do I have a battery drain I don't know about and how do I find out? What could be wrong?

Extra info: they tested the battery the first time and said it was good after recharging it.

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[payneib]

Well first thing usually is to get the battery tested (skip this part if your certain the Li-ion is done).

After that, check the charging system. That check engine light says to me it's probably the reg/rec. Have you noticed any headlight fluctuations? You should have plenty of juice coming from the reg/rec to run all your lights and fan at idle, regardless of battery condition.
I'll find you a link to the reg/rec tests (unless someone beats me to it).

Why are you over heating?

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[payneib]

Look at post number three in this thread:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...uel-pump-battery-charging-brake-bleeding.html

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[Water Bear]

I overheated because I was keeping her at 3k rpm dead stopped in traffic [emoji14] luckily that part is unrelated to the dead electrical system.

Checking out your thread link now. Thanks!

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[Water Bear]

One more piece of info, the bike has a 100w power relay installed to run a dual headlight mod. I'm thinking that if the RR checks out I will also check the relay for health. It's not shorted since the headlights are working but may be drawing excess current or drawing with ignition off for all I know.

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

If the battery is known toast, obviously replace it.

If your not sure, DO NOT count on your charger telling you its good (green light-means nothing-surface voltage).

The battery should be fully charged (on your charger), then LOAD TESTED-IMPORTANT. Most auto stores, Walmart, etc test for free..

I suspect its toast.

Once we have a KNOWN good battery installed, . There should be about 12.8 volts STATIC.

Start the bike and put a volt meter across the terminals. Once started, the charging system, if working correctly should show
approx 13.8 volts or higher.

If your NOT seeing above 12.8, your running off the battery, IE NOT charging..

Report back..


Here's a link showing my voltages from a cold start (dual headlight mod) to get an idea:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/147134237@N06/29303851750/in/dateposted/

 

[Motogiro]

One more piece of info, the bike has a 100w power relay installed to run a dual headlight mod. I'm thinking that if the RR checks out I will also check the relay for health. It's not shorted since the headlights are working but may be drawing excess current or drawing with ignition off for all I know.

Sent from my SGH-S970G using Tapatalk

The relay should only draw what the coil current uses which is far away from being 100 watts and your headlight should not be drawing more than 55-60 watts at any time through the relay. Who did the headlamp relay? Is it one that I made? Regardless, unless wired incorrectly the headlamp relay should not be your problem.

Do as Scott suggested and perform the tests.

 

[Water Bear]

Thanks for the advice, I will test things as Scott has described. The battery has been completely discharged twice now and as I understand it that's not good for a Li-ion battery. I will probably take it with me tomorrow when I buy a volt-meter and have it charged + tested. If it's still good then I'll run tests with it.

 

[Water Bear]

The nearest Autozone tested the battery and said it was good but could not charge it. I picked up a voltmeter and the battery has a resting voltage (uncharged as it is) of 11 volts on the nose.

Can I run tests with this dead battery or does it need to be charged? If so I can try taking it to a Wal-Mart. The guy at Autozone said they 'don't have the trickle charger anymore' or some-such.

Edit: Rereading Scott's instructions, I guess I need a charged battery here...I guess I'll find a store to do the trick and report back.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

11 volts is 0-25% charged.

I have no idea how that guy could say ANYTHING about your battery,
BUT yes, it has to be fully charged to be tested...

.
Here's a link of my bike and the charging voltages taken sometime ago to give you an idea:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/147134237@N06/29303851750/in/dateposted/


Good luck.

 

[Water Bear]

11 volts is 0-25% charged.

I have no idea how that guy could say ANYTHING about your battery,
BUT yes, it has to be fully charged to be tested...

Good luck..

I just read the service manual to get some idea. It specifies that testing the RR is done by checking the charging voltage at 5k rpm, so now I see why we need a charged battery

I'm going to try the Home Depot, of all places, since it's like 5 minutes away. If they can't do it Cycle Gear almost surely can, but that's like a 30 minute drive or more. Gotta do what you gotta do, I suppose.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Being that low, I strongly suspect it hasn't been charging in quite some time but just running off the battery.

You may be able to save the battery, but you'll have another issue causing the little-no charging...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/147134237@N06/29303851750/in/dateposted/

Wish you were closer, I have 4-5 extra chargers you could have used...

 

[Water Bear]

Being that low, I strongly suspect it hasn't been charging in quite some time but just running off the battery.

You may be able to save the battery, but you'll have another issue causing the little-no charging...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/147134237@N06/29303851750/in/dateposted/

Wish you were closer, I have 4-5 extra chargers you could have used...

Should have known you'd have what I need. Mister spare fuel pump O ring [emoji3]

It's amazing to me that mechanics won't charge batteries. Havoline and Firestone said they don't, but a mechanic at the Firestone just took my battery back into their shop despite a negative answer from the person at the front desk. We'll see.

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

Jeez, you remember that o-ring? Sold that tank about a year ago...

IMO, pick up a Battery Tender, nothing fancy, well worth the money. Basic equipment IMO...

Out little battery is best charged at 1.25 amps or so. Hopefully they have a setting that low. The higher the amperage / charge, the
harder it is on the battery. IE if they charge with a 10 amp charger, (and the battery is saved, that higher amp charge is very hard on the battery.

As a side note, should you need a NEW battery, its approx 80% charged.

After filling with acid, it should be trickle charged, again with a 1.25 amp charger
(which you can expect to charge for 6-8 hours till you get the green light).

Yes, you can install it W/O charging but the batteries overall life will be shortened..


Cliff or Randy will chiming in soon with the charging issue once the batteries taken care of.. [MENTION=2579]Motogiro[/MENTION]

 

[FinalImpact]

Li-ion batteries may not survive well on the FZ. Between wild voltage swings and temperature swings, Im certain you'd get more reliable performance from a LAB (lead acid battery)... If you're after weight reduction, well, different story.

Li-ion will not have the same resting voltage and full charge peaks may be higher which is what reduces their lifespan. Point - we cant compare system voltages with different technologies. If you can charge it and ride with voltmeter attached and its hitting 14.5+ on the li-ion, I suspect that is killing it. Replace it. A LAB can take it, not these.

Read the first 3 paragraphs here: Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries – Battery University

Two riding buddies w liter bikes have replaced them yearly and gone back to LAB's taking the weight hit. Again, the reason is that LAB charging systems are not well suited for new technology li-ion.

For LABs which are aged and under 11v, its not the worst thing to hit them with 3 to 4amps to desulfide them. Just check the temp and stop charging if they get warm to the touch. Let them cool and repeat.

If you can not monitor them do not use a charger over 2amps. Have a beverage and check them every 20".

 

[Motogiro]

If you ever need to, you can create your own current limiting using a low wattage 12 volt bulb. Say for example you only have access to a 12volt 10 amp charger but you want to trickle charge your battery. You might for example use a 12 volt festoon interior incandescent lamp (Filament type lamp) as a series ballast resistor to limit the current.
So say you use a 12 volt festoon lamp (car interior lamp) that draws .416 amps (5 watts at 12 vdc) you would be able to limit the current to .416 amps even though you were using a 10 amp charger.
I whipped up a quicky schematic as an example.(See Attachment) I've done this many times in a pinch when I've needed a lower charge rate for either a project or other repair/charging

 

[Water Bear]

Jeez, you remember that o-ring? Sold that tank about a year ago...

From my perspective, you don't forget an incident like that. Trapped 860 miles from home because of a single O-ring failing, and a stranger ships you one. Salvation!!

By the way you sold your old gas tank to me. Blah I was just lifting it up to mess with things.

Before I try to digest the wealth of info I have been given (Thanks Scott, Randy, Motogiro (cliff?)!!!!) I will report some test results.

Firestone trickle charged my battery back to 13.1 to 13.09 volts. That was as far as they got by closing time. By my measurements:

Resting, key in off position: 13.1 to 13.09v.
Key in on position: 13.03
Running: Steadily dropping into the high 12's

After cranking it a few times:

Cranked, idling: 12.62v
Throttle @ 5k rpm: 13.01ish

My apologies that these tests have been run with a less than full battery. It's the best I can do tonight.

Evidence seems to suggest that charging system is functioning at the crank. Could the regulator be functioning intermittently? Can I deduce anything from these tests? Thanks!

 

[FinalImpact]

Mine fully charged LAB, sits at 13.00, drops 12.7/12.8 key on, and at 1400 rpm sits at 14.3v or so w dual headlight.
The key point is the battery is fully charged and thus its in float mode thus 14.3/14.4v just off idle. First battery lasted 7 years.

 

[Water Bear]

Based on what I (finally) just read from FI and Scott, it looks like my fancy LI has been abused. The rapid charger used by O' Reilly, even the "trickle" charger by Firestone, was probably really bad for it. If the stock charging system itself is damaging the battery, then that's that.

It's looking like I need to switch back to a LAB. This makes me sad. I really liked my fancy, ultra light battery. Weight saved in a position so far from CoG, too! Ces't la vie.

It will take me the better part of a week to pick up a new battery in any case. May be radio silence for a while.

Edit: From the Shorai site, Shorai charging info, it appears that I have indeed abused my battery. If voltage drops below 13 volts, more or less, then it needs a special charging system with a "cell balancer" to be "recovered." Definitely didn't have access to that today, I'm betting.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Sounds like (even without the fully charged battery), something else is wrong.

Your voltage just keeps dropping when running where it should be rising or showing plus 13.5 volts,

Get your new battery, get some #'s to post. Then Cliff or Randy will get you headed in finding the issue itself..


(PS, and yes, I forgot you bought my "old" tank later and glad I could help with the tank o-ring!).
I managed not to ding up this tank yet..