On/Off, harsh EFI

[jeadra]

So, I've been somewhat distracted over the past few years after getting my 2007 FZ6, got bored with street riding and started focusing more on dualsport/offroad riding.
After finally getting a pair of bikes that are supremely comfortable and fun to ride off-road, I feel like I can pay more attention to the the FZ6, as there are a few kinks I'd like to get worked out.

Firstly, on the '07s with stock everything (most I've done to the internals was switch out to a K&N filter), has anyone else noticed that the EFI is very "on/off"? I'm having a lot of difficulty achieving the nice, smooth transition between acceleration and deceleration I can get out of my XT250 and TTR230. Lot of lurching, especially on city roads. I kept thinking a Power Commander might be an easy way to smooth out the harshness of the throttle, but since I can't find any definitive answers, I'm hesitant to drop $200-$300 on a mod that might not do a damn thing. I like the exhaust note the way it is, and I'm a bit afraid to open up a can of worms with fuel/air mods that might cause more problems that they fix.

Has anyone been able to address this harsh throttle issue, cheaply and effectively? Or is this just a character flaw of these model years?
I've noticed while test riding some of the newer FZ6 (R)'s, that the throttle harshness is far less evident.

The rest of the kinks deal more with suspension issues....and I know a local guy who can help me out with that.

And then there's the cheap LED turn signal mirrors picked up from Ebay. They droop at speed, no matter what I do. Annoying at the least, dangerous in worst circumstance. However, I need stock turn signal brackets before I pickup a pair of R6 mirrors....is that still the best option? I got spoiled by the XT's mirrors that allow me to see who's behind me.

 

[bcmaxx]

So, I've been somewhat distracted over the past few years after getting my 2007 FZ6, got bored with street riding and started focusing more on dualsport/offroad riding.
After finally getting a pair of bikes that are supremely comfortable and fun to ride off-road, I feel like I can pay more attention to the the FZ6, as there are a few kinks I'd like to get worked out.

Firstly, on the '07s with stock everything (most I've done to the internals was switch out to a K&N filter), has anyone else noticed that the EFI is very "on/off"? I'm having a lot of difficulty achieving the nice, smooth transition between acceleration and deceleration I can get out of my XT250 and TTR230. Lot of lurching, especially on city roads. I kept thinking a Power Commander might be an easy way to smooth out the harshness of the throttle, but since I can't find any definitive answers, I'm hesitant to drop $200-$300 on a mod that might not do a damn thing. I like the exhaust note the way it is, and I'm a bit afraid to open up a can of worms with fuel/air mods that might cause more problems that they fix.

Has anyone been able to address this harsh throttle issue, cheaply and effectively? Or is this just a character flaw of these model years?
I've noticed while test riding some of the newer FZ6 (R)'s, that the throttle harshness is far less evident.

The rest of the kinks deal more with suspension issues....and I know a local guy who can help me out with that.

And then there's the cheap LED turn signal mirrors picked up from Ebay. They droop at speed, no matter what I do. Annoying at the least, dangerous in worst circumstance. However, I need stock turn signal brackets before I pickup a pair of R6 mirrors....is that still the best option? I got spoiled by the XT's mirrors that allow me to see who's behind me.

My 09 has the same throttle chop, I think its just the nature of the efi system. you do get used to it and it becomes less noticable after time. I had a ktm that was very much similar.

 

[jeadra]

I think I remember someone telling me long ago that it was a character of one of the earlier generations of EFI for Yamaha. It was less pronounced in a newer bike I test rode. However, I've had this bike for 3 years now, and it's one of those annoying quirks that just won't go away.

*sigh*

I may have to face up and shell out for a Power Commander, or something like it, and a new exhaust....hell, it might be worth it just to get a little extra oomph behind it to bring the front wheel up. Something I've always had trouble doing with the bike.

On that note....any suggestions? LeoVince & 2Bros sound like the more common ones out there.

 

[bcmaxx]

I dont know if its coincidence or a feeling , but I felt a difference in the chop with my new exhaust. I went with delkevic with db killers, very pleased.

 

[major tom]

I have two FZ6's, an 07 and 08. They both have the issue you have. I'll never 'get use to it'. Sometimes I can ride all day and no bother, other times it's maddening. It depends on what I had to do like a slow maneuver while turning or starting from a stop and then having to slow and then speed up again. My riding technique has improved though over the years so it's not a hassle all the time, but...............I still love them for their positive unique features and attributes. Good luck!

 

[Ultrarandom]

FinalImpact has a thread on different things he's done to fix the problem.
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...ponse-time-cheap.html?highlight=throttle+chop

 

[erburtt]

The best (cheapest) way to help reduce the throttle chop is to tighten up the free play in the throttle cable, after that I find it goes away with practice... Definitely not the best feeling at times though

 

[ChanceCoats123]

From what Randy has explained, basically when you close the throttle at speed, the throttlebody butterflies close, and less fuel is sprayed into the intake runner. This causes a sort of dry-spell in the intake runner where there is much more air than fuel being pulled into the engine and the runner gets very lean. When we get back on the throttle, we open the butterfly valves and more fuel is injected into the intake runner, but there is a slight delay as the fuel/air mixture has to travel the length of the intake runner, through the valves and into the chamber to be combusted. This delay, and resulting sudden onset of "power" is what makes the feeling so abrupt. Thinking of how much air (in CFM) is moved through an engine like ours, at say 5000rpm should be explanation enough as to why it happens to quickly. You stop supplying (as much) fuel and the intake runner is very quickly run dry. The fix is to add more fuel at high RPM, but low TPS values. This should keep the intake runner a bit more "wetted".

 

[FinalImpact]

+1 ^^ fair enough....

- IMO the OEM fuel MAP aggressively reduces fuel delivery (think injectors at low duty cycle) under certain conditions. Like when decelerating, throttle closed, RPM above 3.5K.
- With the addition of a fuel controller, adding fuel to wet the intake runners reduces if not eliminates fuel induced chop so the engine can make power when the throttle is opened.

Old carbs didn't have this issue as the high vacuum from having the throttle body butterflies shut still allows fuel into the intake. Injectors don't work like that. Modern bikes with stringent emission standards aim to reduce fuel usage. Hence the MAPs being what they are.

 

[jeadra]

All great ideas, guys! Thanks for the suggestions!

Though, it's funny how thoughts seem to come about in dreams. I actually dreamt last night of the procedure of installing a new exhaust and remapping (did some research before bed)....and somewhere in the dream I came to the realization that a new pipe wouldn't work with my GIVI side bag setup I have installed. I might have to remove the stock plate/turn signal holder, which is part of what holds the bag rails in place.

I'll try tightening up the throttle cables a bit, to see if it might help with the chop. I'm a little leery about digging into the bike to the extent of FinalImpact's solution. I have the tools, but not the bravery....hell, the most I've ever dug into an engine was removing the rocker arm on a friend's older vehicle to replace a leaking set of spark plug well seals.
Maybe I'll work up to it after a while, and a bit more research.

 

[FinalImpact]

All great ideas, guys! Thanks for the suggestions!

Though, it's funny how thoughts seem to come about in dreams. I actually dreamt last night of the procedure of installing a new exhaust and remapping (did some research before bed)....and somewhere in the dream I came to the realization that a new pipe wouldn't work with my GIVI side bag setup I have installed. I might have to remove the stock plate/turn signal holder, which is part of what holds the bag rails in place.

I'll try tightening up the throttle cables a bit, to see if it might help with the chop. I'm a little leery about digging into the bike to the extent of FinalImpact's solution. I have the tools, but not the bravery....hell, the most I've ever dug into an engine was removing the rocker arm on a friend's older vehicle to replace a leaking set of spark plug well seals.
Maybe I'll work up to it after a while, and a bit more research.

Install of a fuel controller only requires Taping into a couple of wires so its not to invasive. I used one Posi Tap on one wire so the OEM harness is not altered as its pretty much plug and play. That said, if you grab a used controller there are maps out there that will solve the problem (off - ON throttle transition). I picked mine for $100 so that may be an option. It just depends how much it bothers you!

FWIW: During the first year of ownership I never thought I'd mod the bike. Well except the forks. But thing keeps happening....

 

[Zealot]

Going to throw in my two cents and say that a TB sync did wonders for vibration, and had an impact on rolling back onto the throttle. The problem still exists, but it smoothed out the 'jerk' a little bit. If you can build (I stress the use of proper ribbed connectors, don't fall victim to what happened to me) a manometer or find someone who has one, I'd suggest trying that and seeing if it helps you at all. It's minimally invasive in that you lift the tank and find four rubber tubes with black plugs, take out said plugs and attach the manometer, then turn a couple of TB screws that are up front and numbered. About as easy as tweaking comes.

 

[BoldBolt]

Put a G2 Throttle Tamer on my 07 and it did exactly what the name would indicate... Simple throttle tube replacement that COMPLETELY changes how the bike rides. Whole swap took 10 minutes and was ~$80.

 

[FZ6Hot]

I'm riding an older 2006. Throttle snatch at low revs was driving me crazy, especially riding roads with switchbacks or at track days. Power commander 3 completely solved problem with a slight increase in fuel consumption.

 

[seansi]

So, I've been somewhat distracted over the past few years after getting my 2007 FZ6, got bored with street riding and started focusing more on dualsport/offroad riding.
After finally getting a pair of bikes that are supremely comfortable and fun to ride off-road, I feel like I can pay more attention to the the FZ6, as there are a few kinks I'd like to get worked out.

Firstly, on the '07s with stock everything (most I've done to the internals was switch out to a K&N filter), has anyone else noticed that the EFI is very "on/off"? I'm having a lot of difficulty achieving the nice, smooth transition between acceleration and deceleration I can get out of my XT250 and TTR230. Lot of lurching, especially on city roads. I kept thinking a Power Commander might be an easy way to smooth out the harshness of the throttle, but since I can't find any definitive answers, I'm hesitant to drop $200-$300 on a mod that might not do a damn thing. I like the exhaust note the way it is, and I'm a bit afraid to open up a can of worms with fuel/air mods that might cause more problems that they fix.

Has anyone been able to address this harsh throttle issue, cheaply and effectively? Or is this just a character flaw of these model years?
I've noticed while test riding some of the newer FZ6 (R)'s, that the throttle harshness is far less evident.

The rest of the kinks deal more with suspension issues....and I know a local guy who can help me out with that.

And then there's the cheap LED turn signal mirrors picked up from Ebay. They droop at speed, no matter what I do. Annoying at the least, dangerous in worst circumstance. However, I need stock turn signal brackets before I pickup a pair of R6 mirrors....is that still the best option? I got spoiled by the XT's mirrors that allow me to see who's behind me.

I have a power commander on mine and at times it's still a bit choppy but way better than it use to be. I'm using Chances map whom also is a forum member. One of the veteran members looked it over with him and it's basically one of the maps from the power commander site but with 10% increase at idle and possible modded in some other sections.

I've also purchased a motion pro throttle sync tool which helped a lot with the smoothness during acceleration and idle. Honestly, both purchases were worth the money imo.
The PC3 was listed at $300+ something from a power store. I messaged him saying I'd buy it from him for $130.

Bike didn't want to idle at 1350 anymore so it's set slightly higher but when it's been running for 10-15 min or during the Sunday rides it idles perfectly after running it hard. If just bopping around on it there's still a slight loop in it which I was having issues with before installing the PC3 because of the Delkevic exhaust I'd purchased before. When I have some money left over I'll probably get the K&N filter since I live in a pretty humid climate, maybe that will solve the loopyness at 1350 rpm.

 

[vinmansbrew]

Ah yes, the throttle chop. This is 1 area where carbs beat out fi. The linear response of carbs is hard to duplicate in fi. Well, at least it seems to be since so many manufacturers can't get it right. I know the line about them needing to increase fuel economy, but I don't know if I buy that. My fz doesn't get the mileage my old cb gets. Sure the fz makes more hp, but it doesn't make any more torque. It also weighs less and "should" have a more efficient engine, and fi is supposed to be more efficient. Yet on the highway, my fz, faired or naked, manages about 44-45 mpg. My cb will net over 50 mpg.
I am more of the thought that there just is not that much work that goes into fuel maps. They get it to the point that it is "good enough" and leave it. I guess it makes room for piggyback companies, though.

 

[thisisdylan]

for those of us who haven't fixed our bike's lurching in 1st gear, do you guys sometimes take tight corners in 2nd gear? i usually rev match all the way down to 1st and roll back on during the corner, but the lurch when rolling back on is uncomfortable.

Put a G2 Throttle Tamer on my 07 and it did exactly what the name would indicate... Simple throttle tube replacement that COMPLETELY changes how the bike rides. Whole swap took 10 minutes and was ~$80.

has anyone else tried this?

 

[FinalImpact]

for those of us who haven't fixed our bike's lurching in 1st gear, do you guys sometimes take tight corners in 2nd gear? i usually rev match all the way down to 1st and roll back on during the corner, but the lurch when rolling back on is uncomfortable.



has anyone else tried this?

If the conditions allow you drop to a lower gear and rev more, this helps. Changing the sprocket ratio helps (15/46, 15/48 ect), fuel controllers, ignition, and exhaust additions make it go away.... See mod list in sig below!! :/

Lurch Free..... lol

 

[gpwanabe]

The PC5 is fun to play with but did nothing for the throttle harshness. The G2 throttle tamer made a noticeable improvement to the throttle harshness on my bike.

 

[zixaq]

Boy I'm glad I found this. That choppy throttle has been driving me bonkers, but I figured it was normal and I was just a n00b. Next time I have some money to throw at the bike . . .

Riding in San Francisco can be very annoying at times with that on/off switch for a throttle. (And the super clunky 1-2 shifting, which makes me sad). Half the time I'll just pull away from stop signs in 2nd gear to avoid these issues.