My Engine Stalls for the first 5min

[beuwiq]

Hi All'

Just noticed my FZ6 2004 model stalls when parked for a few hours. When I start it and try to revv it's like the bike is bout to loose breath & go off, but when I release the throttle it comes back alive.

Note: this happens for about 5-7mins afterwards it clears out & revvs properly. I also smell more fuel than I should too. if that would help :don'tknow:

Should I b worried bout this new development. Please I need some advise

I've also noticed some whistling sound when I revv. Should that also be a source of concern???

Thanks

B!#

 

[MakersTeleMark]

What is your idle set at?

When is the last time you cleaned/replaced your air filter?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

When starting cold, are you getting a higher idle until it warms up (after a minute or two)? It should be running a little richer in that time frame.

As posted above, is your hot idle about 1,300?

Is that "noise" new to the bike? Have you had any recent work done to the bike, lift the fuel tank, etc? (really shouldn't be any whistle)

If you can listen and follow that whistle noise would be helpful.

Any codes showing on the dash?

 

[FinalImpact]

When starting cold, are you getting a higher idle until it warms up (after a minute or two)? It should be running a little richer in that time frame.

As posted above, is your hot idle about 1,300?

Is that "noise" new to the bike? Have you had any recent work done to the bike, lift the fuel tank, etc? (really shouldn't be any whistle)

If you can listen and follow that whistle noise would be helpful.

Any codes showing on the dash?

^^
It sure would be nice to see the Fuel Map for this bike. For the most part the idle speed is controlled by the water temp (see thread below). It has that bi-metalic spring in the idle air circuit to kick open the AIR volume until the temp comes up. What I don't know is if the injector duty cycle increases while the waters cold??? Suppose I could look and find out tho!

It sounds like he might have a vacuum leak. Take a look at this thread around post 40 for all the potential locations... http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...-have-i-killed-my-engine.html?highlight=green

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

^^
It sure would be nice to see the Fuel Map for this bike. For the most part the idle speed is controlled by the water temp (see thread below). It has that bi-metalic spring in the idle air circuit to kick open the AIR volume until the temp comes up. What I don't know is if the injector duty cycle increases while the waters cold??? Suppose I could look and find out tho!

It sounds like he might have a vacuum leak. Take a look at this thread around post 40 for all the potential locations... http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...-have-i-killed-my-engine.html?highlight=green

Randy, my sniffer (nose) works real good and I can say, when in cold mode, slightly higher idle, (even in the low 80's am), I can literally smell additional fuel on my bike. Doesn't stay at high idle maybe a minute, but definitly richer..

Reading his post, sounds like its richer than normal. A battery disonnect and ECU re-set may help but that won't fix that vacuum leak.

I suspect something recently has been done to the bike..

 

[FinalImpact]

In his case perhaps its an ignition issue (or lack of) as in itsf not burning the fuel thats there!

When were the plugs out last and have the plug caps and wires ever been inspected? How many miles?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

In his case perhaps its an ignition issue (or lack of) as in itsf not burning the fuel thats there!

Yepper, A very good possibility! ^^^^ Would explain the extra fuel as well. +1 as well re the spark plugs...

For the op, if you have a lazer temp gun, pointing at the headers, near the head may shed some light. A colder header pipe indicates that cylinder isn't working.

If not, spraying a little bit of water on each header (while its acting up) should pin down the cylinder.
(The water, if the cylinder isn't functioning, will just run off. If the cylinder is running, it'll turn to steam pretty quick)..

 

[beuwiq]

What is your idle set at?

When is the last time you cleaned/replaced your air filter?

When I initially start the bike the idle goes as low 900-1100 but when it fires properly between 1200-1300

When all this started I ordered a K&N Air filter

 

[beuwiq]

When starting cold, are you getting a higher idle until it warms up (after a minute or two)? It should be running a little richer in that time frame.

As posted above, is your hot idle about 1,300?

Is that "noise" new to the bike? Have you had any recent work done to the bike, lift the fuel tank, etc? (really shouldn't be any whistle)

If you can listen and follow that whistle noise would be helpful.

Any codes showing on the dash?

When its starts up it idles at about 900-1100 whin its hot about 1200-1300

I think thewhistling noise comes from the right side of the engine

& No error codes

 

[elus1ve]

I have had this same behavior since I got the bike 3 years ago. It came with the K&N air filter.

Basically it goes like this:
- Engine is cold or in the next 2-3 mins following ignition.
- Clutch, move to 1st gear then do a faster than normal start off the line.
- Keep throttle open. Doesn't have to be completely open, just enough for a quick start.
- As the bike start to roll forward, the engine will feel like it's puffing a few times and loose power until it 'catch its breath again'.
- I usually have take it easy on the throttle when starting off the line for 2-3 mins.

After the 2-3 mins, it doesn't happen anymore. Revving in neutral doesn't seem to cause this, it seems a load is needed on the engine for this to happen. Engine never died on me, just feels reluctant to rev. I don't usually rev like crazy on a cold engine but sometimes just more than usual because I need to be quick off the line. Never thought about it too much and put it on the account of a cold engine but it would be interesting to know if other members here have the same behavior from the engine.

p.s: I recently changed my spark plugs and learned my engine runs a bit lean. No aftermarket exhaust. Was told to put more oil on the K&N filter next time I clean it.

 

[beuwiq]

^^
It sure would be nice to see the Fuel Map for this bike. For the most part the idle speed is controlled by the water temp (see thread below). It has that bi-metalic spring in the idle air circuit to kick open the AIR volume until the temp comes up. What I don't know is if the injector duty cycle increases while the waters cold??? Suppose I could look and find out tho!

It sounds like he might have a vacuum leak. Take a look at this thread around post 40 for all the potential locations... http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...-have-i-killed-my-engine.html?highlight=green

Thanks bout to read on the vaccum leak get back to you shortly

 

[beuwiq]

^^
It sure would be nice to see the Fuel Map for this bike. For the most part the idle speed is controlled by the water temp (see thread below). It has that bi-metalic spring in the idle air circuit to kick open the AIR volume until the temp comes up. What I don't know is if the injector duty cycle increases while the waters cold??? Suppose I could look and find out tho!

It sounds like he might have a vacuum leak. Take a look at this thread around post 40 for all the potential locations... http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...-have-i-killed-my-engine.html?highlight=green

Thanks bout going through the vaccum leak thread

 

[beuwiq]

When its starts up it idles at about 900-1100 whin its hot about 1200-1300

I think thewhistling noise comes from the right side of the engine

& No error codes

Correction when hot idle stays within 1300-1500+

 

[beuwiq]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I really appreciate it.

 

[iSteve]

I don't know if our bikes work this way but in some cars the TPS works solely to control cold start and warm up. Once the temp reaches a set point the O2 sensor will be asked to adjust the mixture and overriding any TPS inaccuracies.

Just for kicks you may want to test the TPS. But like I said I have no idea if our bikes work this way.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I don't know if our bikes work this way but in some cars the TPS works solely to control cold start and warm up. Once the temp reaches a set point the O2 sensor will be asked to adjust the mixture and overriding any TPS inaccuracies.

Just for kicks you may want to test the TPS. But like I said I have no idea if our bikes work this way.

Cold coolant to a part of the throttle body assembly signals the ECU to run the higher idle at cold start up. Some other sensors may as well...

The TPS (Throttle Position Sensor / throttle is usually closed (no throttle at start up) so that doesn't affect cold start high idle. It is telling the computer the position of the throttle at all times...

The TPS simply monitors the throttle position and passes on that info to the ECU for fuel/ignition, etc adjustments... I don't know of any car with a TPS that functions for strictly start up. On any newish car(FI'ed) you don't have to pump the gas pedal. The TPS / throttle is left closed, the computer and its sensors monitor air temps, coolant temps, O2 sensor(s), etc and adjust idle, A/F ratio accordingly.


***As in Post #8, the issue started with the installation of the K&N air filter. Hummm...


If over oiled or under oiled, as I've read here, makes a difference in engine performance. It seems to have made a difference (bad difference) here.

Unless your runnng a PC, etc, IMO, I'd put a stock filter back in and be done with it..

 

[FinalImpact]

I don't know if our bikes work this way but in some cars the TPS works solely to control cold start and warm up. Once the temp reaches a set point the O2 sensor will be asked to adjust the mixture and overriding any TPS inaccuracies.

Just for kicks you may want to test the TPS. But like I said I have no idea if our bikes work this way.

This is what I've come to know about "cold start up" for cages!
Cages run in two basic modes when cold; "open loop" and "closed loop". The method of idle speed increase for cold start up varies by year and manufacture technology present at the time.

Open Loop:
Initial start is OPEN LOOP whereby input from the sensor conditions is used run a fuel MAP fitting those conditions. They ignore the O2 sensors as these sensors are cold and not reporting accurately.
Vehicles that are throttle by wire (TBW), the TB is opened to increase idle speed (follows MAP from ECM). Older cars with Idle Air Control Circuit (IACC) with a throttle cable to the drivers foot; idle speed is set by the IACC. Obviously the ECM adds fuel to meet the engine speed requirements.

Closed Loop:
As the heaters in the O2 sensors reach operating temperature, the ECM goes from OPEN LOOP to CLOSED LOOP. Its now using input from the O2 sensors to make short term adjustments to the fuel trim. The fuel maps which include LONG TERM FUEL TRIM stored in ROM give it a starting point to make adjustments for the conditions.


The FZ6:
As I mentioned before; Cold idle speed is increased by sensing the coolant temperature. A mechanical (bi-metallic spring) moves a plunger opening passages to ADD AIR VOLUME which goes around the throttle plates. The TPS and throttle shaft DO NOT MOVE. The ECM knows its cold and adds fuel based on a Fuel MAP for the conditions present. Like the cage, the O2 sensor takes time to come on line and begin reporting oxygen content in the burned fuel. Once it reaches temperature the fuel map is very likely switched to a closed loop mode like the cage.

The key ingredient is the Throttle plate are NOT moving (TPS is a fixed value) until the rider twists the grip.

MY FZ6 cold start up experience:
Mine starts and runs cold just as well as hot. I can and DO begin moving within 30 seconds of start up and it never misses a beat! It never feels likes its about to die, and it behaves flawlessly. I think some of you need to do some maintenance to achieve a better performing vehicle!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Mine starts and runs cold just as well as hot. I can and DO begin moving within 30 seconds of start up and it never misses a beat! It never feels likes its about to die, and it behaves flawlessly. I think some of you need to do some maintenance to achieve a better performing vehicle!

Mines behaves the same as yours exactly..

I helmet and glove up once I crank it up.

By then, the idle comes down and off I go. No hesitation, coughing, etc, just as if to temp, (but I take it easy, shift @ about 4K, until the coolant and oil temps are up)..

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm still suspect of the ignition system. Just have to wait and see.

FWIW: here are the key idle air components.

The right side of the body shows the the coolant temp circulation over a Bi-Metallic Spring which tracks the coolant temperature. This adjusts the depth of the long brass needle through the mini venturis which changes the air volume through all the ports to each cylinder.

Underside of TB:
If the throttle plates do not always close in the same spot, its an air leak around the Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) and this makes for variable RPM. As would a vacuum leak to ANY hoses BELOW the Throttle Plates!

 

[beuwiq]

Yepper, A very good possibility! ^^^^ Would explain the extra fuel as well. +1 as well re the spark plugs...

For the op, if you have a lazer temp gun, pointing at the headers, near the head may shed some light. A colder header pipe indicates that cylinder isn't working.

If not, spraying a little bit of water on each header (while its acting up) should pin down the cylinder.
(The water, if the cylinder isn't functioning, will just run off. If the cylinder is running, it'll turn to steam pretty quick)..

I'll try spraying water on the headers & get back to you. Thanks