Is this my clutch plate?

[Clay350]

WIthin the last 2 days my fz6 developed a new problem. Under hard acceleration regardless of gear it feels like my clutch lets go around 12K. When I hit the meat of the powerband the engine just redlines and I loose thrust. Im quick to lift the throttle and I dont seem to have any other problems. My bike only has 11K on it and I never abuse or ride the clutch hard. Im good at shifting with minimal wear. I have plenty of play in my clutch lever so I know I havent adjusted it to tight thats its pulling it in a little.

Im thinking a factor may be my last oil change? I always use mobile one synthetic 15w50 or whatever it is I think. During my last oil change I had a bunch of Mobil one 10w30 synthetic left over from my car that I tried. Could this be my problem?

 

[lawlberg]

Im thinking a factor may be my last oil change? I always use mobile one synthetic 15w50 or whatever it is I think. During my last oil change I had a bunch of Mobil one 10w30 synthetic left over from my car that I tried. Could this be my problem?

Nailed it!

Since motorcycles use the same oil in the engine that they do in the transmission - it needs to be heavy. If the oil is too thin your clutch won't grab onto the tranny or soemthing like that. Always use MC oil in it! It's more expensive and if you have regular motor oil laying around it is enticing, but the bike was designed for heavy oil and you're seeing where the difference lies.

Change out that car stuff and put in fresh bike oil and you'll be fine.

 

[trepetti]

Slipping at the power peak is definitely the clutch. I am guessing here but the oil change is the cause. Car oils are designed to be as slippery as possible, but motorcycle oils are engineered to provide enough grip to allow the wet clutch to transfer power from drive to driven side.

Get the car oil out ASAP and change the filter as well.

 

[skooter65]

While I agree with some of the above; automobile oil in a motorcycle is not always a problem (Although I wouldn't generally recommend it).

That said, it is likely more due to the viscosity than the general fact that it was automobile oil. The wet clutch in the FZ6 relies on a certain shear viscosity of the oil in order to provide proper friction for the clutch plates (not the transmission). If the viscosity is not correct for the given temperature, the clutch plates can slip under load. Additionally, if the oil you used has certain additives found in some of the current "fuel saving" automobile oils, it can have the same effect. Continual slip can "glaze" the friction material of the clutch plates making them effectively useless.

Provided that the problem has only been evident for a short period, you can likely swap out the oil, run a quick rinse of proper oil through for good measure, refill, and be on your way.

Just my 2-Cents

Let us know how it goes!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Nailed it!

Since motorcycles use the same oil in the engine that they do in the transmission - it needs to be heavy. If the oil is too thin your clutch won't grab onto the tranny or soemthing like that. Always use MC oil in it! It's more expensive and if you have regular motor oil laying around it is enticing, but the bike was designed for heavy oil and you're seeing where the difference lies.

Change out that car stuff and put in fresh bike oil and you'll be fine.

This is partially true.

The Yamaha SHOP manual calls for 10W30 or 10W40. As noted above Motorcycle Specific oil is preferred as the transmission gears tend to shear the engine oil apart.

A very low performance / small engine isn't going to be as hard on the oil as a higher revving, 100 HP, 14,000 RPM engine will.

IMHO, I'd put the correct grade of MC specific oil in it and run it. If it still acts up, start looking elsewhere.

*Unless the previous owner dogged it bad prior to you, that clutch should be fine at 11,000 miles.

 

[Nelly]

I think you have found the issue by identifying the oil as the likely cause.
Having said that when my run switch went bad I was getting what I thought was clutch slip as it was cutting out briefly at high rpm.
For your own piece of mind just give the run switch a little jiggle with the engine running and see if this replicates the problem.
Please let us know what you find?

Nelly:thumbup:

 

[FinalImpact]

Nailed it!

Since motorcycles use the same oil in the engine that they do in the transmission - it needs to be heavy. If the oil is too thin your clutch won't grab onto the tranny or soemthing like that. Always use MC oil in it! It's more expensive and if you have regular motor oil laying around it is enticing, but the bike was designed for heavy oil and you're seeing where the difference lies.

Change out that car stuff and put in fresh bike oil and you'll be fine.

I can't condone the "needs heavy oil". This could CAUSE damage by starving the engines main and rod bearings of oil. Thicker i.e. 50wt oil is only needed in real HOT temps where start-up engine temps are in the 60F and climb to 120F. Using thicker oil causes oil temps to rise as the pump works harder, the oil that's supposed to fill the clearance between the journals is not there when cold.

Also, the greatest "shear" point that breaks down oil in this application is the CAM and LIFTER wipe which is the highest friction point in the engine. It is the reason most auto engines go to Roller CAMs & Roller Rockers as that wiping-shear breaks the oil down faster than contact pressure like the straight cut gear in the transmission, and even piston ring to cylinder.

As for the original post: Dump the OIL ASAP and fill it with approved oil for the temperature and application. The Energy Conserving oil can damage the clutch friction material causing the problem you have.

 

[Clay350]

Yea I will change the oil first chance I get. Until then I will just ride her easy.

 

[Pope Mobile]

Shell Rotella T6 errday.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

From Mobil 1's website ( FAQs for Oil Products ):

"So how is Mobil 1™ synthetic motor oil for passenger cars different from Mobil 1 for motorcycles?

First, let's be clear about the overall benefits of Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil compared to those of conventional motor oils, whether for passenger cars or motorcycles:

Superior long-term engine protection.

Superior high-temperature stability.

Excellent low-temperature starting.

Outstanding engine performance.

Low volatility/low oil consumption.

It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the two Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:

Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).

 

[FinalImpact]

From Mobil 1's website ( FAQs for Oil Products ):

"So how is Mobil 1™ synthetic motor oil for passenger cars different from Mobil 1 for motorcycles?

First, let's be clear about the overall benefits of Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil compared to those of conventional motor oils, whether for passenger cars or motorcycles:

Superior long-term engine protection.

Superior high-temperature stability.

Excellent low-temperature starting.

Outstanding engine performance.

Low volatility/low oil consumption.

It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the two Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:

Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).

>> This stuff is what keeps the camshaft alive from the wipe/shear action.
These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous)

Zinc is another but the ZDDP is the core item. These all damage the CATs so having roller CAMs reduces the need for the CAT killing additives which are often replaced by Molybdenum or something like that. I am not positive but I think its the Molybdenum which causes clutch slip if too high in concentration.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I looked at a bunch of FAQ's on their site (as I was/am pretty sure) the transmission is the main reason for "shearing" of oils (which are used in both the engine AND transmission of MC engines).

Their site refers to shearing of the oil in both the transmission, bearings, (engine in general).

I also called (1-800-275-6624) their tech customer line and inquired re which is harder (causes more shear), the engine or transmission or does he know.

The tech (and no I didn't get his name) stated where engines share the engine oil with the engine, the transmission does some more shearing.

In either case, bottom line, car oil is NOT RECOMMENDED due to addititives that will allow the clutch to slip..:thumbup:

 

[FinalImpact]

A hypoid gear cut has HIGH shear. Think in terms of a ring and pinion on a standard front engine rear drive cage. This has a cutting, wiping shear which is very hard on oil. This type of gear requires GL-4 GL-5 rating.

Our engine/trans has nothing like that. Just because it has bevel cut and straight cut gears its not hard on oil like shear. Many gears of this kind would are fine ATF or basic engine oil of straight weight.

From: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/effects-of-shearing/ << worth a read....

EDIT: Bikes are hard on oil.
nOt going down this road again. :surrender::surrender:

 

[Motogiro]

>> This stuff is what keeps the camshaft alive from the wipe/shear action.
These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous)

Zinc is another but the ZDDP is the core item. These all damage the CATs so having roller CAMs reduces the need for the CAT killing additives which are often replaced by Molybdenum or something like that. I am not positive but I think its the Molybdenum which causes clutch slip if too high in concentration.

Molybdenum polyoxometalate buckyballs (NH4)42[MO 72 VI MO 60 V O372(ClCH2COO)30(H2O)72] · 250H2O · 15ClCH2COONa (Mo132Cl) were synthesized; some of their properties were studied, namely, purity, spectral and crystallographic parameters, buckyball aggregation in solution, and interaction with water-soluble nonionic polymers (poly(vinyl alcohol) and poly(vinylpyrrolidone)). The newly synthesized polyoxometalate was shown to have a lower stability than its analogue containing acetate instead of chloroacetate groups, both having similar thermal destruction pathways. At the first heating steps, water is eliminated from Mo132Cl. Thermal destruction at higher temperature produces chloroacetamide, chloroacetonitrile, and other compounds.


Okay okay! Stop shooting at me! Lol! I had to....

I do use the Molybdenum as a lube on my axles or anywhere I need a high pressure bearing application. remember this stuff has nano particles called buckyballs so try to keep it off your skin and wash up good.

Yeah, the friction modifiers in conventional automobile oils don't work well with the bike's clutch. Maybe Ducati's idea with the dry clutch solves this issue? Thinking about it you could use car engine oil in the Duc with a dry clutch.

 

[oaks]

Suitable oils will have the JASO-MA certification. Avoid CD and Energy Conserving II oils. Rotella T6 (Walmart) and Mobil 1 Racing 4T (Autozone) shown here.

Getting a little dated, but still good info here:

Motorcycle Oil and Filters

Manual snippets are from my 2009 Owner's Manual.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

A hypoid gear cut has HIGH shear. Think in terms of a ring and pinion on a standard front engine rear drive cage. This has a cutting, wiping shear which is very hard on oil. This type of gear requires GL-4 GL-5 rating.

Our engine/trans has nothing like that. Just because it has bevel cut and straight cut gears its not hard on oil like shear. Many gears of this kind would are fine ATF or basic engine oil of straight weight.

From: Effects of Shearing - Bob is the Oil Guy << worth a read....

EDIT: Bikes are hard on oil.
nOt going down this road again. :surrender::surrender:

Good article (and I agree) but it doesn't address manual transmissions.

As you know, the old Muncie 4 speed's (mostly straight cut gears), most (if not all) rear ends to most rear wheel drive vehicles use 80-90wt hypoid oil (as does the lower unit of my outboard engine), etc, use 90wt gear oil. Although there's no piston rings, mostly ball bearings, some bearings, these gears/units don't use a 30w oil.

Glad you surrendered, now that's settled! :thumbup:

For the op, get that oil out and MC specific oil in it, problem solved...

 

[PFD023]

seems to be a recurring theme in alot of the threads......not trying to dis anyone here but problems seem to arise (often) when the owner's manual is ignored for whatever reason......just sayin.

 

[trepetti]

Muncie trannys! I miss my old " rock crusher"!

 

[Motogiro]

I love the smell of hypoid gear oil in the morning!

 

[ped]

:rtfm:

It's not complicated. Use a 10w30 or 40 (NOT 20w50) motorcycle oil.