Help me troubleshoot CPS

[Motogiro]

Don't hit any device on your bike with hammer unless you're really angry and it will make you feel better. The starter on your bike does not use a solenoid type plunger for engagement to the motor. It instead uses a sprag clutch.
Start by load testing the battery and the charging system.

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[Tailgate]

Well after a few weeks with no issues, I thought the bike fixed itself. Obviously not so, yesterday the bike failed to turn over again, but I got it to start by rolling the bike a bit. Today, different story, it would not turn over after I pulled into the casino. After eating at the buffet.. .

I like El Dorado buffet but Silver Legacy, Peppermill, sometimes Sands and Circus Circus, Atlantis, Harrah's are all good. Isn't Reno great for casino buffet deals? Waiting to see what the cause of your intermittent start issues ends up being.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Had to push start the bike this morning and after work. So it's gotten worse, as it's no longer intermittent, it's permanent. Took the bike into the local shop to get it load tested, battery is fine. Even used the charged up shop battery as a jump and still no start. Just the clicking sound. Tech thinks the starter switch is still good since it's clicking. But he thinks the starter motor or whatever makes the starter turn has gone bad. I left the bike at the shop for them to do some more trouble shooting and I hope they find out what the heck is so it can get fixed. IN the meantime, looks like I will taking the bus to work.

 

[agf]

I feel for you Kenny, I had mine in the shop for a few days early this year and pub transport sux.
Didn't you have a second bike for the ice ride in Boise? or does that still have spiked tyres?

heres hoping they find a kwik fix for you (and inexpensive too)

 

[FinalImpact]

Kenny, why didn't you just buy the starter solenoid and install it! Its like 99% to blame!

If you wish to PROVE its bad before buying one (used ones are out there for $4.00 not worth taking to a shop), grab test lamp or a meter set to DC Volts.
Connect Meter ( - ) minus to battery Ground ( - ).
Connect Meter (+) plus to Blue w/white Trace at the relay atop the battery.

Hit the starter button (key and run switch on). If the Light lights or meter shows ~12Volts the signal to the relay is GOOD! We need to know this!
If you hit the Starter Button and the meter/lamp do nothing, we have bigger issues.
If you want to confirm the RELAY is bad and the LAMP LIT or Meter displayed 12V, then move your (+) Plus meter lead to the Big Cable on the relay which leads to the Starter (away from the battery).
Hit the starter button and you will see NOTHING change! This means the relay did NOT pass the current to the starter and needs replaced!

If you want to go a step further and Bypass the Solenoid, MAKE CERTAIN THE TRANS IN NEUTRAL AND - use one lead from a jumper set and connect it to the battery POSITIVE on the bike. Touch the other end of the cable from the battery "+" on the bike to the Solenoid end which leads to the starter. A SPARK WILL FLY and starter motor will spin the engine! THIS means the starter IS OK and SOLENOID needs replaced! See post #8!

Do not Touch ANYTHING ELSE with that cable to the battery or it will SHORT and KILL SOMETHING! DO NOT GET IT NEAR THE FUEL TANK! EVER!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Appreciate the tips Randy, but what seems simple to you is too complicated for me. I'll pay the shop $100 to figure it out. I'm the type of guy who pays people to get it done rather than taking the time to do it yourself. It's like paying someone to cut your lawn. Plus I don't have a lawn mower. I have zero tools except for wrenches.

 

[Motogiro]

Had to push start the bike this morning and after work. So it's gotten worse, as it's no longer intermittent, it's permanent. Took the bike into the local shop to get it load tested, battery is fine. Even used the charged up shop battery as a jump and still no start. Just the clicking sound. Tech thinks the starter switch is still good since it's clicking. But he thinks the starter motor or whatever makes the starter turn has gone bad. I left the bike at the shop for them to do some more trouble shooting and I hope they find out what the heck is so it can get fixed. IN the meantime, looks like I will taking the bus to work.

That sounds like it's the culprit. The starter has brushes that ride on a commutator that is part of the armature. They wear out and get dirty so there is poor electrical contact. Most starters are serviceable although less and less people have the knowledge skill or desire in our throw away world anymore. They'll probably replace it but the bike should be okay for the next 100k Lol! You are a warrior!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Where is the starter anyway? Is it that round silver cylinder on the left side of the bike?

 

[Motogiro]

Your starter is serviceable and may just need a replacement brush assembly (#4 in the diagram) and a cleaning of the commutator Here's a breakdown of the starter.... 2006 Yamaha FZ-6 (FZS6V) Starting Motor | Ron Ayers

 

[VEGASRIDER]

That sounds like it's the culprit. The starter has brushes that ride on a commutator that is part of the armature. They wear out and get dirty so there is poor electrical contact. Most starters are serviceable although less and less people have the knowledge skill or desire in our throw away world anymore. They'll probably replace it but the bike should be okay for the next 100k Lol! You are a warrior!

Believe it or not, I am familiar with starters because they are used in helicopters and it's something that I always had to send in for repair or overhaul. , The brushes are always needing replacement. I think you are right, the starter just needs an overhaul or at the very least, the brushes needs to be replaced if possible.st

Just to be clear, is the starter and the starter solenoid the same?

 

[Motogiro]

Believe it or not, I am familiar with starters because they are used in helicopters and it's something that I always had to send in for repair or overhaul. , The brushes are always needing replacement. I think you are right, the starter just needs an overhaul or at the very least, the brushes needs to be replaced if possible.st

Just to be clear, is the starter and the starter solenoid the same?

The bike starters don't use a solenoid the way a car does. It has what is termed a sprag clutch for engagement instead. This make the starter motor much easier to overhaul because there is no mechanism needed to engage and disengage the starter gear to a flywheel like in a car. This should be much cheaper to repair.

 

[FinalImpact]

In my book - Click Click Click always points to the source which is 1) battery <<NOT IT this time! 2) Solenoid which is not passing current.

Ask Shop boy to Bypass the Solenoid with a jumper cable. If the Starter Works on this Test 5 of 5 times it Says its the Solenoid....

Point: EFI engines start so Easy when all is right that that Commutator Brushes Do NOT wear out like an Old Generator or a DC motor used for hours on end. It runs for 4 seconds and has done its job. The Relay on the other hand takes a beating.... Zero current to 100AMPS!!!! Just as Scott had posted a tiny defect in Solenoid and all bets are off for passing current. It just goes CLICK!

My bet is on the Solenoid!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

My moneys on the starter itself..


It shouldn't take long to diagnose in the shop. Depending on the tech, I'd bet they lean toward a whole new starter, not just brushes (if that' s the case). I'd likely cost most labor wise(shop rates) then to replace. Also, the actual bearings supporting the center shaft, wear on the commutator etc, with the miles on it.

At least its easy to swap out..

 

[VEGASRIDER]

After all these posts and over a month of troubleshooting to a point that the bike was no longer starting intermittently to not starting at all except from a push start. We have a winner, and it's Cliff. Turns out my brushes from my starters were worn down to a point that it wouldn't start. That's what the shop said this morning so they have ordered me a new set of brushes and I'm hoping that will finally fix the starting issues. Total cost including the time it took for them to troubleshoot, new parts and labor, $150. Looks like I only have to ride the bus to work for one more morning.

 

[Zealot]

Crap man, I could have given you some parts if need be. If you're looking for the much less common engine related parts, I might be able to hook you up in the future. Your call, of course.

Good thing you got it sorted out though! How many miles on the clock now?

 

[VEGASRIDER]

crap man, i could have given you some parts if need be. If you're looking for the much less common engine related parts, i might be able to hook you up in the future. Your call, of course.

Good thing you got it sorted out though! How many miles on the clock now?

104,000 miles

 

[Monica A]

After all these posts and over a month of troubleshooting to a point that the bike was no longer starting intermittently to not starting at all except from a push start. We have a winner, and it's Cliff. Turns out my brushes from my starters were worn down to a point that it wouldn't start. That's what the shop said this morning so they have ordered me a new set of brushes and I'm hoping that will finally fix the starting issues. Total cost including the time it took for them to troubleshoot, new parts and labor, $150. Looks like I only have to ride the bus to work for one more morning.

With our first heavy rain of the season today, it's probably a good thing you were busin' it. Not that you can't ride in the rain, it's just the crappy drivers. I saw a car sitting on I-80 this afternoon on its roof. No one else around. How does that happen? Bad drivers. Note to idiots: first rain of the season = slippery roads. Slow down and don't ride the brakes. Sorry for my rant. I'm done now.

I'm glad Motosource was able to fix you up. They are good guys. When they did a valve check on my Sprint, they quoted us $350-500. Ended up costing us $160. They said it took less time than they thought. Pretty cool huh. Also, if you buy tires through them, they mount for free if you bring the rim in off the bike. That might be hard for you.

You can always call us if you need a tow. We have an enclosed cargo trailer set up to tow bikes. We have chocks mounted inside and everything.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

With our first heavy rain of the season today, it's probably a good thing you were busin' it. .

I don't know about that, it was a downpour at 5:30 in the morning, just standing in the dark at the bus stop getting wet. No umbrella but you can bet I had good rain gear!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I don't know about that, it was a downpour at 5:30 in the morning, just standing in the dark at the bus stop getting wet. No umbrella but you can bet I had good rain gear!

Were you wearing your helmet? :

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Here is a picture of my brushes, brush B is severely worn down. Bike starts up fine now. Labor was $120 which included the troubleshooting and another $30 for the brush kit, $153 out the door. I'm fine with that.