Hardest technique to master?

[dolau]

Confidence to corner far enough over to lose my chickeen strips

 

[Misti]

Confidence to corner far enough over to lose my chickeen strips

Confidence to corner and lean the bike over is a tough technique to master, there are several factors in riding that will help you gain the confidence to do this more so that just getting up the never to "lean it over".

But it brings up another question (I like questions). When I first started riding the big goal for myself and all my friends was to ride lean the bike over to the edge of the tires and get rid of our "chicken strips". However as I got more familiar with riding and certain riding techniques I realized that leaning the bike over as far as possible wasn't always the best, fastest or safest method around. The goal has now changed to get through the turn the fastest possible while using the LEAST amount of lean angle.....

Thoughts?

Misti

 

[galen]

Slower than walking tasks. I go to a empty parking lot and try to ride as slow as possible in different paths: u-turn and figure8s.Clutch and no gas can be hard withe the clutch on the fz6. After 20 min straight i feel more comfortable the rest of the ride:thumbup:

 

[Mazer]

I'll admit, when I first started riding, I too cared about the so called "chicken strips" (though it was never about being chicken, but rather being skilled enough). Now, with new FZ6 in hand, the strips are still there after a month. Mainly because I've learned, as Misti hinted, that turning should be done by the least amount of lean necessary (am I saying this right?) If I move/shift my body to be more toward the inside of the curve, the CG is such that the bike needs less lean angle to acheave(SP?) the same line at a given speed. Less lean, more control, and more breathing room of remaining tred/lean possible just in case! Curves that used to consume the fringe, don't even come close with better CG positioning! (Not sure if all this is stated correctly, but in whatever way, it works.)

My main problem, after years of not riding while the young-ins grew up, is maintaining focus when faced with distractions that spawn from inherent fears. Like coming up on a turn, suddenly seeing a huge foray of rocks in my path.... my mind starts focusing too much on them, instead of looking through the curve like I should be. Or maybe it's a pile of wet leaves, or some other horid thing that has burned me in the past. I know from experience what I must do to get through the problem, but it's always tuff. It's so difficult to shake it off sometimes, and focus beyond the problem so I don't overshoot the turn, or put a leg down when there is no need. Funny how I didn't worry so much about these things when I was younger and cavalier, now with responsibilities over my head, it's my main problem.

 

[Misti]

I'll admit, when I first started riding, I too cared about the so called "chicken strips" (though it was never about being chicken, but rather being skilled enough). Now, with new FZ6 in hand, the strips are still there after a month. Mainly because I've learned, as Misti hinted, that turning should be done by the least amount of lean necessary (am I saying this right?) If I move/shift my body to be more toward the inside of the curve, the CG is such that the bike needs less lean angle to acheave(SP?) the same line at a given speed. Less lean, more control, and more breathing room of remaining tred/lean possible just in case! Curves that used to consume the fringe, don't even come close with better CG positioning! (Not sure if all this is stated correctly, but in whatever way, it works.)

My main problem, after years of not riding while the young-ins grew up, is maintaining focus when faced with distractions that spawn from inherent fears. Like coming up on a turn, suddenly seeing a huge foray of rocks in my path.... my mind starts focusing too much on them, instead of looking through the curve like I should be. Or maybe it's a pile of wet leaves, or some other horid thing that has burned me in the past. I know from experience what I must do to get through the problem, but it's always tuff. It's so difficult to shake it off sometimes, and focus beyond the problem so I don't overshoot the turn, or put a leg down when there is no need. Funny how I didn't worry so much about these things when I was younger and cavalier, now with responsibilities over my head, it's my main problem.

Yes you have explained the body position and how it effects your "chicken strips" correctly

As for maintaining focus when there are distractions, this is a tough one that we all struggle with. Keith calls our reactions to these moments "survival reactions" and what we need to do is kind of train ourselves to "react" in a different way. Unfortunately the way we automatically react (by target fixing on the danger, by stiffening up, by rolling off the gas) is usually the WRONG thing to do so we have to fight that automatic reaction and teach ourselves to react differently.

In the case of staring at dangerous things that may be in the middle of the corner, we must force our eyes to maintain what Code calls a "WIDE VIEW" meaning we teach ourselves that even in the midst of danger we force our eyes to stay wide as opposed to allowing our vision to narrow down.

This can be practiced while riding or driving or even walking by noticing every time your vision begins narrowing, or seeing how much of the road you are able to see (with your peripheral vision and straight ahead) and working on seeing more.

How many of you guys practice "widening your vision" on a daily basis? How might this change the way you "REACT" when something is suddenly in your path?

Misti

 

[krushnuts]

Yes you have explained the body position and how it effects your "chicken strips" correctly

As for maintaining focus when there are distractions, this is a tough one that we all struggle with. Keith calls our reactions to these moments "survival reactions" and what we need to do is kind of train ourselves to "react" in a different way. Unfortunately the way we automatically react (by target fixing on the danger, by stiffening up, by rolling off the gas) is usually the WRONG thing to do so we have to fight that automatic reaction and teach ourselves to react differently.

In the case of staring at dangerous things that may be in the middle of the corner, we must force our eyes to maintain what Code calls a "WIDE VIEW" meaning we teach ourselves that even in the midst of danger we force our eyes to stay wide as opposed to allowing our vision to narrow down.

This can be practiced while riding or driving or even walking by noticing every time your vision begins narrowing, or seeing how much of the road you are able to see (with your peripheral vision and straight ahead) and working on seeing more.

How many of you guys practice "widening your vision" on a daily basis? How might this change the way you "REACT" when something is suddenly in your path?

Misti

Thanks Misti, this one really hit home for me this last week end. I noticed for the first time the corners I felt most confident in were the ones where my eyes were really wide, looking deep into the corner, pretty much at the point where I couldn't see further up the road. I was taking in the minute details all around, but concentraiting on the furtherest part I could see ahead. This combined with flicking my eyes back very quickly to check the road nearer the front of the bike, then back to where they were before. The thing that really stuck in my head was the feeling of my eye lids being almost as wide open as they could be. Every time I tried doing this I felt the same confidence, although on some corners it was hard to do, the fear crept in and then I would get distracted, or fixate on a tree, or other object before pulling my eyes back to where they should be.

Definately something I am conciously trying to do on all corners now! Really looking forward to attending stage 1 css finally at queensland raceway!

 

[dolau]

Thanks Misti and Mazer- yes I agree I am not really terribly worried about my chicken strips which are down to about 1/2" anyway and cornering is more about bike and body positioning and I am pretty happy with that.... its just...................................... my son borrows my bike and brings it back with none and when we ride together I can never keep up with him - or want to run at that speed- I guess its a father/son thing

 

[joe1971]

Chicken stripps are yummy, as for having a little extra tire left on the sides? well thats a good idea

I found if I open my inside knee to the turn it also turns my hips into it, also placing your head somewhat between the windscreen and mirror, then your shoulders will also be turned into the turn, and a little extra weight on the outside foot peg makes it easier to maintain that position while also forcing my body to remain relaxed.

Maybe it looks a bit goofy i dunno (I don't tend to follow me) but it's sure neat when you feel the bike and suspension working underneath you.

 

[Misti]

Thanks Misti, this one really hit home for me this last week end. I noticed for the first time the corners I felt most confident in were the ones where my eyes were really wide, looking deep into the corner, pretty much at the point where I couldn't see further up the road. I was taking in the minute details all around, but concentraiting on the furtherest part I could see ahead. This combined with flicking my eyes back very quickly to check the road nearer the front of the bike, then back to where they were before. The thing that really stuck in my head was the feeling of my eye lids being almost as wide open as they could be. Every time I tried doing this I felt the same confidence, although on some corners it was hard to do, the fear crept in and then I would get distracted, or fixate on a tree, or other object before pulling my eyes back to where they should be.

Definately something I am conciously trying to do on all corners now! Really looking forward to attending stage 1 css finally at queensland raceway!

Excellent! Have fun at CSS level 1 you will love it

Misti

 

[Misti]

Thanks Misti and Mazer- yes I agree I am not really terribly worried about my chicken strips which are down to about 1/2" anyway and cornering is more about bike and body positioning and I am pretty happy with that.... its just...................................... my son borrows my bike and brings it back with none and when we ride together I can never keep up with him - or want to run at that speed- I guess its a father/son thing

I understand, we all have a similar friendly competition with someone we are close too and while it is often good to have left over traction available, you get to a point speed wise where you have to lean the tires over all the way. I'd take a look at some of the things your son may be doing that is helping him go a little faster and see if you can't find ways to improve your own riding which will help with your speed as well. Just take it to the track and stay safe on the street!!!

Chicken stripps are yummy, as for having a little extra tire left on the sides? well thats a good idea

I found if I open my inside knee to the turn it also turns my hips into it, also placing your head somewhat between the windscreen and mirror, then your shoulders will also be turned into the turn, and a little extra weight on the outside foot peg makes it easier to maintain that position while also forcing my body to remain relaxed.

Maybe it looks a bit goofy i dunno (I don't tend to follow me) but it's sure neat when you feel the bike and suspension working underneath you.

:thumbup:

Misti

 

[krushnuts]

Excellent! Have fun at CSS level 1 you will love it

Misti

Wow, css level 1 was the best day of training I've had ever. I've attended 3 other courses by different companies and CSS was by far the most comprehensive and understandable one of them all. I reckon I improved my technique more in that 1 day than I have by my self in the last 2 years at least.

Throttle control. The first lesson, and is actually (for me) the hardest technique to master. Sure it's not hard when your casually riding along, but when your riding a bit harder your spending a fair chunk of your $10 on doing other things. Throttle control becomes more difficult. I'm now constantly practising smooth throttle control.

Turn points. Great exercise, big X at the start of every turn to indicate where we should make the steering input. Takes a few of the decisions away from us (students) and combined with staying in 3rd or 4th gear allows us to concentrate on the drill. I found using the turn points that even though they were deeper into the corner than where I would have turned from, they provided much more vision of the remainder of the corner and I felt like I had more time and space.

Quick turning. Make 1 steering input. The harder and longer you push on the bars dictates how fast the bike leans over and how far. I was always afraid that the front wheel would fly out from under me lol I was assured by all the CSS staff and instructors that they have never, ever seen this happen. I took their word for it and tried and to my surprise, it worked. I was flicking the bike. wow

Rider input. The less busy you are the better. Stay neutral on the bars, grip tank with knees, keep back relaxed. Sometimes I would stiffen up on the bars, causing the bike to run wide. There were two off-camber corners I was doing this on. I wasn't confident my tyres would hold. 1/2 way through one of these corners I fought this survival reaction and forced myself to stay relaxed and to let the front end do it's thing - it was amazing, the bike immediately started to stay on it's line, and it didn't run wide :cheer:

Two-step turning. This is an introduction to a level 2 skill/drill. This technique helped a lot breaking down the approach and entry into a turn. Consciously using peripheral vision and looking as far ahead into the turn to create a more realistic impression of speed. I wasn't feeling so rushed and felt very much in control during this drill.

Everything I'd learned during the day came together nicely for a few sections of the track, it was an amazing feeling, tipping into turn 1 after blazing down the straight. 3-4 bikes around me, registering their presence, but not being spooked or target fixating. All of us almost moving as one, picking up our bikes then tipping into turn two oh man I nearly wet myself I was so happy rofl.

I highly recommend these courses to anyone riding a motor cycle. Even if you aren't into track days, the skills taught are universal and will increase your enjoyment of riding.

Thank you CSS for coming to Queensland Raceway, I'm already signed up for Level 2 in September :rockon:

 

[g8anos]

1st. I still try to smooth out gear changing. Especially from 1st to 2nd

2nd. While leaning, its difficult to convince my brain that if I brake I will fall and that the bike is able to lean much more without problems, when I realize that I'm going a little bit to fast for that corner.

3rd. Wheeling. Very hard to master... still trying

 

[fazed_ya]

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[fazed_ya]

Riding fast is easy the bike does the work. It riding slowly sub 5mph where all techniques come in to play, throttle control,friction zone, body position, counter balance and steering ....past that the hardest techniques to learn can't be taught and that is not panicking when something goes wrong. My wife just wrecked my buell because she froze up in the middle of a 55mph turn. You can't teach some one how to not panic. ..therefore that is the hardest technique to master cause you can't nor want to practice that skill...her practice cost me a bike and her a spleen. And a week in the hospital

 

[ohgood]

1st. I still try to smooth out gear changing. Especially from 1st to 2nd

2nd. While leaning, its difficult to convince my brain that if I brake I will fall and that the bike is able to lean much more without problems, when I realize that I'm going a little bit to fast for that corner.

3rd. Wheeling. Very hard to master... still trying

1st to 2nd, yep, i sound like someone smashing rocks when the bike is cold.

leaning, i know the bike will go down to 45 degrees before it starts to matter about traction, but i still chicken. lotsa learning there.

slow speed stuff- i'm very good there. i can lock-to-lock turn with or without the rear brake helping with confidence. i don't do high speed, so it's not an issue.

 

[FZ6_Dude]

i would have to say learning that i could brake till i hit the apex of a turn and getting back on the throttle sooner while leaned over... i was always told to stay away from braking in turns when learning so this has been a hard obsticle to overcome... but now it feels natural and the bike stays planted and im much more comfortable about carrying speed into corners...

 

[Shawn]

This is a great thread. My weakness would be finding good resources to explain how to ride my bike better and make use of some of its performance. Some of the terms and techniques mentioned hear are new to me.

I live in a place where there are very few corners and curves to practice any techniques. Also there is a lot of issues with our roads - lots of gravel, pot holes etc that you have to be very cautious about.

 

[callmegandhi]

Hitting the ground! I've never mastered that!

 

[MrMogensen]

I have during the last 3 months attended a semiadvanced bike course and the followup advanced bike course here in Denmark - the value of this is hard to measure because its massive!
There was also a beginners class but since I have been riding a bike for 3 years (all of them on my FZ6) I was recommended to go ahead with semi advanced.

Have read most of the posts in this thread and I know most have been mentioned, but I'd like to list up what we learned. I hope I get the translation from Danish correct. Every new lesson adds something to the previous lesson (for example during lesson 4 the 3 previous lessons still count). Whole day was 20min theory, 20min maneuvers (various brake'n dodge exercises + cornering through a stripe of gravel), 20min racetrack exercises (read below), 20 min pause.

"Semiadvanced" Day 1:
Lesson 1 # Throttle control (don't brake, don't change gear, most bikes had to be in 3rd gear because it was best choice for this track).
Lesson 2 # Entrypoint of turn (instructors had marked when we had to start turning with a cone, and I could clearly feel that it those cones weren't there I would want to turn way earlier and thereby giving myself less space out of the turn).
Lesson 3 # Fast entry (entry point cones have been moved a little forward, maintain slighty higher speed and use more counter steering to dive the bike).
Lesson 4 # Riders input (relax and think a little about your breath, wriggle your elbows in between every to make sure your not trying to strangle the handle bar).
Lesson 5 # 2 step entry (focus on the turns entry point (the cone), focus on the turns midpoint).
"Semiadvanced" Day 2
Lesson 1 # Back to basic (startup with Lesson 5 from Day 1 (hereby including the whole Day 1, we are now allowed to use the brake).
Lesson 2 # Vanishing point (forget about midpoint and now focus on the turns vanishing point).
Lesson 3 # Broad vision (keep focus forward even when the annoying instructors jump up from behind commercial signs waving = see everything but keep focus).
Lesson 4 # Gather up information and improve the turn timing (recall the whole track in your mind, if you can't then you are either too tense or going too fast).
Lesson 5 # Just go for it... (removal of all the cones, sum of the 2 days and remember/use everything).

*We were allowed to start shifting gears somewhere around late day 1 or early 2 depending on how good we were (was only 2nd and 3rd for me because we had to keep the revs in the midzone).
** Only few people were recommended to repeat this course. I was told by the head instructor that I did very very good on my FZ6 and there was no reason not to head on to advanced.

"Advanced" Day 1
Lesson 1 # Back to basic (startup with everything from semiadvanced course).
Lesson 2 # Down shifting (making it smooth using the throttle).
Lesson 3 # Optimize braking/acceleration (brake later in and accelerate faster out a bit more every lap)
Lesson 4 # Braking into a turn (try to brake halfway into the turn, I hated this one!, FZ6_Dude mentions this particular technique a few posts back).
Lesson 5 # Afraid of the curb? (finish every turn less than half a meter from the curb).
Advanced Day 2
Lesson 1 # Back to basic (yup after a nice dinner and a good nights sleep it's everything form previous lessons again).
Lesson 2 # Knee out (notice how you don't have to countersteer as much).
Lesson 3 # Hanging out (one single buttcheek only, keep knee in).
Lesson 4 # Hanging out (with knee).
Lesson 5 # Just go for it... (including 2 fast turns with a 10-15cm stripe of gravel => still with hang out + knee out).

*Advanced Day 1, Lesson 4 => I never became good at this, because I was thinking more about not being a chicken and just countersteer more.
** Advanced course is (as it should be) way harder than the semi, so everysingle of us riders would greatly benifit with repeating this.
*** I was told I was still doing great on my FZ6, but I needed to be more calm especially when hanging out.

Next year they'll introduce a new higher level where you get a personal racing instructor for the day. I'll take another advanced course next year and maybe upgrade afterwards.
These courses has improved my skill around +100%... I enjoy every single ride a helluvalot more, and now I rarely experience any "brown adrenalin moments".

To sum up why I wrote all this... just wanted to explain that after attending these courses it's hard to tell which technique was the hardest to master. Especially the advanced really had me sweating like a pig under my gear. It might be the braking into a corner thing that I hated doing. Or maybe it's downshifting with throttle smoothing while in the middle of regular traffic that's hardest?
I can't remember all expressions (like the word for downshifting while smoothing it with throttle. So if anything that doesn't make sense... just ask!

 

[Simona]

Not sure about the hardest technique to master, cos they're all tricky to master, but one technique that springs to mind that I struggle with is more applicable to track than road. Breaking hard from high speed on the straight, and trying to gear down and blipping the throttle between downshifts. A lot of racers do this (Rossi, Stoner) some dont. A lot of trackday punters do it and some dont. And most of my mates do it and I dont. (I cant). I just break hard and when I get to the desired corner speed, I pull clutch, gear down accordingly and match the engine speed to the wheel speed using the clutch to transition smoothly before I turn in. I guess my way works for me, but watching the pro's gearing down and blipping the throttle, I always felt like I was doing something wrong. Until I read an article by Mick Doohan who thinks its pointless trying to go down one gear at a time and blip the throttle while breaking hard. He would just break hard, select correct gear for the turn match wheel speed to engine speed and use the clutch to make the transition smooth. I felt better after reading that. Cos I could never really could do that whole gearing down while breaking hard thingy while blipping...