Fz6 shut off mid ride

[BitesWhenBitten]

I was always taught to check my oil cold because the expansion of hot oil will give an inacurrate reading.

As for the center stand. My garage is reasonably flat, and I would center stand it, but with it still being lowered in the back, it's incredibly difficult.

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[OG MayMay]

I think it's more because the physical volume of the oil increases with temperature?

Thermal expansion is also a factor no doubt, but I was thinking that engine lubrication aeration would decrease the density more than thermal expansion. I could be wrong tho .

As the temperature of oil increases, the solubility of any gases decreases, causing bubbling to occur as the gas molecules collect together, this would have a decrease in the overall density of the oil, and thus an increase in volume.

 

[OG MayMay]

I was always taught to check my oil cold because the expansion of hot oil will give an inacurrate reading.

As for the center stand. My garage is reasonably flat, and I would center stand it, but with it still being lowered in the back, it's incredibly difficult.

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Using the side stand to check the oil would cause a low reading because the dip stick is on the opposite side of the stand and leaning would causing the oil to flow away from the dip stick; Page 3-27 in the service manual states to put the motorcycle on a level surface upright, and to warm the engine up for several minutes before checking the oil level.

You have been taught wrong my friend, the manufacturers all teach to warm the engine up before checking or changing the oil.

 

[BitesWhenBitten]

Lol, I'll have to yell at my father for that one.

OK. That's good to know. If I measured the oil incorrectly, it probably isn't burning like I thought it was.

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[BitesWhenBitten]

So let's address what happens if you have too much oil? Does anyone know?

It just so happens that when I checked my oil before I checked it cold, it was on the side of the road and it was very hot. The curve of the hill meant I had to push the bike back onto the side stand repeatedly. This means that the oil reading I got then of full is fairly accurate.

Because I'm starting to think other than the electrical issues, the current issue I'm having might be my dumbass fault.

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

Using the side stand to check the oil would cause a low reading because the dip stick is on the opposite side of the stand and leaning would causing the oil to flow away from the dip stick; Page 3-27 in the service manual states to put the motorcycle on a level surface upright, and to warm the engine up for several minutes before checking the oil level.

You have been taught wrong my friend, the manufacturers all teach to warm the engine up before checking or changing the oil.

Once you get your oil level correct on the dip stick, (mid hash, high hash, etc), turn it off and let the engine get cold.

Park the bike in your normal spot, even on the side stand (as I do) and re-check. You'll find the level lower but still on the stick.

Make a mental note of where it is NOW on the stick.

Now, W/O all the start/ run two minutes (which DOESN'T warm the oil to temp) etc, check to see the oil level COLD, that it's the same as last time.

Much, much easier and ACCURATE.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So let's address what happens if you have too much oil? Does anyone know?

It just so happens that when I checked my oil before I checked it cold, it was on the side of the road and it was very hot. The curve of the hill meant I had to push the bike back onto the side stand repeatedly. This means that the oil reading I got then of full is fairly accurate.

Because I'm starting to think other than the electrical issues, the current issue I'm having might be my dumbass fault.

Too much oil (running) will have the crankshaft "whipping" the oil into foam WITH LOTS of air induced into it. That will cause loss of oil pressure and engine failure.

I suspect you'd need at least a half quart to a full quart OVER to have this happen. You can literally run your engine on the side, with the clutch cover OFF, with just some oil splatter but NO major issues..

Now, the oil level CAN increase on it's own should you have a leaky fuel injector (seeping fuel into the crankcase past the rings). This is easily seen on the dip stick and also can be smelled on the oil from the dip stick(very easily actually).

 

[BitesWhenBitten]

Too much oil (running) will have the crankshaft "whipping" the oil into foam WITH LOTS of air induced into it. That will cause loss of oil pressure and engine failure.

I suspect you'd need at least a half quart to a full quart OVER to have this happen. You can literally run your engine on the side, with the clutch cover OFF, with just some oil splatter but NO major issues..

Now, the oil level CAN increase on it's own should you have a leaky fuel injector (seeping fuel into the crankcase past the rings). This is easily seen on the dip stick and also can be smelled on the oil from the dip stick(very easily actually).

You're saying I would smell gasoline off the dipstick?

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

You're saying I would smell gasoline off the dipstick?

YES. If the injector(s) are leaking, fuel gets into the crankcase and raises the engine oil level. Kinda rare it happens, had it happen to my FJR (years ago).

Again, the level will rise, usually substantially.

Should the oil turn "milky" and the level rise, you have a coolant leak into the crankcase..(usually a head gasket).

**Your initial problem, (pages ago), even thou the engine wasn't running correctly, was still (likely) making oil pressure and everything WAS getting oil.

 

[BitesWhenBitten]

Also, would this be immediate failure?

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[BitesWhenBitten]

I agree that both these things are not likely the issue. I do not remember smelling gasoline, and the oil was definitely honey colored, no milkiness

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

Also, would this be immediate failure?

Injectors generally clog up over time with crappy fuel, sitting a long time. They fail electrically (internally) too...

Could one get stuck open, I'm sure it could but your engine failure occurred while riding, was major and was likely working fine (it's not like you took it out of moth ball storage).

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The initial cause of your issue was loose battery terminal(s). You tightened them up.

I suspect running W/O a good connection, the electrical system was compromised, IE no ignition to a spark plug(s).

The engine needs 12.8 volts to run fuel pumps, injectors, ECU, ignition, lights, etc. Loose the electrical power (or it's too low) WILL cause major issues (similar to what your having).


*The shop should be doing voltage check, is the system charging, is the battery toast, etc as your issue STARTED with the loose battery terminal..

 

[BitesWhenBitten]

Very true. We will see what the shop comes up with.

Although I'm not certain why the battery terminal would be loose. I understand vibration and all that, but I had just installed a new jumper cable and being a cabling technician as my main pay, I always make sure my wires are tight. Probably just bad luck.

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[Gary in NJ]

Tight is import. Just as important is that there is no tension on the cable. With tension on the cable, coupled with vibration, a terminal can work its way loose.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Very true. We will see what the shop comes up with.

Although I'm not certain why the battery terminal would be loose. I understand vibration and all that, but I had just installed a new jumper cable and being a cabling technician as my main pay, I always make sure my wires are tight.

Just a dab of RED Loctite on the inner battery nut will come it from coming loose W/O compromising the connection.

 

[BitesWhenBitten]

Thank you! Why red? I use white for all my guns and the like... I'm assuming the compound is electrically conductive.

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thank you! Why red? I use white for all my guns and the like... I'm assuming the compound is electrically conductive.

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You main conductivity is between the FLAT BATTERY CABLE and the top, FLAT of the battery terminal. The nut and bolt just hold them together.

Whether it's conductive or not, it doesn't matter.

As for Red, a dab WILL keep it from loosening up but still can be removed with WRENCHS if need be.. You may be able to get by with a lighter "fastener" but a gun doesn't vibrate like an FZ inline buzz box..

 

[BitesWhenBitten]

This is very true. So then, red is a stronger hold. I never knew there were variations in strength of loctite. I don't know why I was thinking the loctite would block the connection. But at least it's bolted and not an amplifier type screw down socket.

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

Red is the strongest, probably overkill, but just use less of it.

IE, for the wiring inside the stator cover, RED is used to lock down the stator AND the wiring harness so nothing catches it. (and Yamaha wasn't stingy with it). You need a heat gun pointed at the stator cover, where the torx bolts screw in, get it to about 400F, and then it'll break loose. You must work quickly..