FZ6: Fuel / ignition - Running Problem (won't rev)

[Mkii]

Hi folks, i'm new here at the Forum and i'm turning to you guys for some expertise knowledge about the FZ6N 2006 (non abs, Black Frame + engine)
Let's explain my problem and the behavior of my bike.
Last week it was running nice and smooth, but one morning after a trouble free day b4 of riding it didn't wan't to start. after a few tried it started up but it was running bad and i couldn't rev more than maybe 2-3k with a few % of throttle. i manage to get it up to 9k in neutral with some throttle and when i put in 1st gear and let out the clutch it didn't have power enoght to stay alive to it stalled.
What have i checked so far?
*fuel pump. always gives initial fuel when i turn on the bike, also checked that it puts pressure on the fuel (at least during ignition, tried with the hose of and the fuel increased in pressure, or well the "stream" increased).
NOTICE: the fuel was not running trou the "normal" fuel hose, i used an external since i didn't manage to release the bikes fuel hose from the fuel rail.
*Have checked battery and the wire attaching to the bike (Ground?) did clean and made sure it was very good contact.
*Air filter is nice.
*New oil + filter about 1000km ago
*cooling water is sufficient
*about 10000km on the bike in total
I will attach a video that shows how my bike is behaving right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiwDMvVzo9o

Right now i'm going down and gonna check the Spark plugs.

Please help
// Jesper from Sweden

 

[Wildcat_drvr]

Don't give it any throttle while cranking.
Our bikes are fuel injected,
So there isn't any "accelerator pump"
To squirt fuel like a carburetor.
Plugs may be wet with excess fuel.
One of our experts will help you.
Good Luck!

Rich

 

[Mkii]

Don't give it any throttle while cranking.
Our bikes are fuel injected,
So there isn't any "accelerator pump"
To squirt fuel like a carburetor.
Plugs may be wet with excess fuel.
One of our experts will help you.
Good Luck!

Rich

Hi and thanks of an answer. just checked the plugs, everything was in order. they where "brownish" and not to dry, in general they looked good.

However i noticed an little knix just b4 it enters the fuel rail (or well, 5cm b4 where it descends to the fuel rail. i tried to straiten it out, there is some sort of metallic tread inside the fuel hose.

Next to do:
*check Fuel pressure?
*Pray?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Even thou it seems be cranking quickly, (towards the end, definitly slower), check the voltage with a meter at the battery and the voltage regulator.

When you hit the starter button, your dash is dimming either slightly or completly indicating not enough power.

The battery should have 12.8 just sitting with nothing on.

Once started, try to get the RPM's to 2,000 RPM's. You should see close to 14 volts (which I don't think you will)


At idle,12-1300 RPM's, the bike is just about breaking even charging wise. If its NOT charging, the bikes running on the battery until the voltage drops, FI quits, ECU starts shutting down, etc...

Please post what you find

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

However i noticed an little knix just b4 it enters the fuel rail (or well, 5cm b4 where it descends to the fuel rail. i tried to straiten it out, there is some sort of metallic tread inside the fuel hose.

Can you post an up close and slightly farther back pictue of this spot?.

That metallic spot may just be part of the clamp built into the hose..

 

[FinalImpact]

Down n dirty -

Remove air cleaner lid, drop a few CC's of fuel into each throttle body inlet and hit the start sequence. If it fires off in a lively manor, your on the right path and it lacks fuel.

Continue on your path inspecting for deliver issues.
It wants 36 PSI at the rail (250.0 kPa, (2.50 kgf/cm²)). If it has this it will start and idle but that means little under way as kinked hose could keep it from delivering the fuel volume needed to pull any load.

Add some fuel directly and report back what it does. Is the inside of the tank rusty? is it a bike thats been sitting for any period of time ever?

Rust and sediment can and do break free plugging the pump and filter. Take a look here for more details. http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...mpact-trouble-shooting-maintenance-guide.html

This goes into troubleshooting and symptoms of fuel issues.

 

[Mkii]

Even thou it seems be cranking quickly, (towards the end, definitly slower), check the voltage with a meter at the battery and the voltage regulator.

When you hit the starter button, your dash is dimming either slightly or completly indicating not enough power.

The battery should have 12.8 just sitting with nothing on.

Once started, try to get the RPM's to 2,000 RPM's. You should see close to 14 volts (which I don't think you will)


At idle,12-1300 RPM's, the bike is just about breaking even charging wise. If its NOT charging, the bikes running on the battery until the voltage drops, FI quits, ECU starts shutting down, etc...

Please post what you find

Hi. tried a few things today after work
*changed to a new fuel hose, no knix at all. the fuel is being delivered to the fuel rail and it has pressure (haven't measured it yet, but it's at least some 2bar 25-30psi + ? ) i was not able to keep my finger on the hose outlet when i tried to start it and the fuel pump was delivering fuel.
*Cranked up the idle extremely much, with this i also did put a few drops of fuel directly to each cylinder (or well, into each channel inside the air box)
with this it was running at about 18-1900 rpm. was able to push it to about 2200 but i have to release the throttle instantly or else it will die.

Does this say anything or gives anyone any clues?
Best regards
Jesper

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hi. tried a few things today after work
*changed to a new fuel hose, no knix at all. the fuel is being delivered to the fuel rail and it has pressure (haven't measured it yet, but it's at least some 2bar 25-30psi + ? ) i was not able to keep my finger on the hose outlet when i tried to start it and the fuel pump was delivering fuel.
*Cranked up the idle extremely much, with this i also did put a few drops of fuel directly to each cylinder (or well, into each channel inside the air box)
with this it was running at about 18-1900 rpm. was able to push it to about 2200 but i have to release the throttle instantly or else it will die.

Does this say anything or gives anyone any clues?
Best regards
Jesper

YES, what is the voltage at the battery, sitting (not running) and running???

Can you jump a known GOOD, 12 volt car battery (Car NOT RUNNING) to your battery and see how it runs (or doesn't)..

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Do you have a volt meter?

 

[FinalImpact]

Is it within your means to remove the spark plugs and examine them?

Also - please jump into diagnostic mode and look at the TPS signal. Something seems screwy!

From Post # 12; http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...uel-pump-battery-charging-brake-bleeding.html

**************************
DIAGNOSTIC MODE
**************************

The ECM has the ability to verify some of the sensors and switches on the vehicle. When placed into diagnostic mode it can also display inactive error codes and some history as well as test both the ignition coils and the fuel injectors. For most of these tests, the FSM instruction the user to disconnect the Fuel Pump power (Green connector under the fuel tank).


Setting the diagnostic mode S1 Models:
1. Turn the main switch to “OFF” and set the engine stop switch to “STOP”.
2. Disconnect the wire harness coupler from the fuel pump (GREEN connector).
3. Simultaneously press and hold the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons, turn the main switch to “ON”, and continue to press the buttons for 8 seconds or more.

• All displays on the meter disappear except the clock and trip-meter displays.
• “dIAG” appears on the LCD meter.​

4. Press the “SELECT” button to select the C0 adjustment mode “C0” or the diagnostic mode “dIAG”. US bikes will only display "dIAG", unless a jumper wire is grounding a pin in the harness to enable C0/C1 fuel trim adjustments.
5. After selecting “dIAG”, simultaneously press the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons for 2 seconds or more to execute the selection.
6. Select the diagnostic code number that applies to the item that was verified with the fault code number by pressing the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons.
7. The diagnostic code number appears on the LCD meter (01-70).

• To decrease the selected diagnostic code number, press the “RESET” button. Press the “RESET” button for 1 second or longer to automatically decrease the diagnostic code numbers.
• To increase the selected diagnostic code number, press the “SELECT” button. Press the “SELECT” button for 1 second or longer to automatically increase the diagnostic code.​

Setting the diagnostic mode S2 Models:
1. Turn the main switch to “OFF” and set the engine stop switch to “STOP”.
2. Disconnect the wire harness coupler from the fuel pump (GREEN connector).
3. Simultaneously press and hold the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons, turn the main switch to “ON”, and continue to press the buttons for 8 seconds or more.

• All displays on the meter disappear except the clock and tripmeter displays.
• “dIAG” appears on the LCD meter.​

4. Press the “SELECT” button to select the C0 adjustment mode “C0” or the diagnostic mode “dIAG”. US bikes will only display "dIAG", unless a jumper wire is grounding a pin in the harness to enable C0/C1 fuel trim adjustments.
5. After selecting “dIAG”, simultaneously press the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons for 2 seconds or more to execute the selection.
6. Set the engine stop switch to “OFF”.
7. Select the diagnostic code number that applies to the item that was verified with the fault code number by pressing the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons.

NOTE:
The diagnostic code number appears on the clock LCD (01–70).

• To decrease the selected diagnostic code number, press the “RESET” button. Press the “RESET” button for 1 second or longer to automatically decrease the diagnostic code numbers.
• To increase the selected diagnostic code number, press the “SELECT” button. Press the “SELECT” button for 1 second or longer to automatically increase the diagnostic code numbers.​

8. Verify the operation of the sensor or actuator.

• Sensor operation
The data representing the operating conditions of the sensor appears on the trip LCD.
• Actuator operation
Set the engine stop switch to “RUN” to operate the actuator.​

NOTE:
If the engine stop switch is set to “RUN”, set it to “OFF”, and then set it to “RUN” again.
9. Turn the main switch to “OFF” to cancel the diagnostic mode.

S2 In Diagnostic Mode:

**************************
SYSTEMS that can be Verified:
**************************
To activate, turn Engine Run switch from OFF to ON while mode is selected.
01: Throttle position sensor (throttle angle)
30: Ignition coil #1, #4
31: Ignition coil #2, #3
36: Injector #1, #4
37: Injector #2, #3
48: AI system solenoid
51: Radiator fan motor relay is activated every 5 seconds.
52: Headlight relay is activated every 5 seconds (2 seconds ON, 3 seconds OFF) - 2003+ model only.


**************************
Diagnostic code table
**************************
NOTE: Where the following "•" is present, this data may not apply to all vehicles. In fact it looks like it applies to the R6 as it has 4 coils and coil ID. FI

Here's many of the Yamaha Fault Codes:

11 • No normal signals are received from the cylinder identification sensor when the engine is started or while the vehicle is being driven.
12 - No normal signals are received from the crankshaft position sensor.
13 - Intake air pressure sensor: open or short circuit detected.
14 - Intake air pressure sensor: hose system malfunction (clogged or detached hose.)
15 - Throttle position sensor: open or short circuit detected. Throttle position sensor (for throttle valves) coupler connection is loose.
19 - Open circuit is detected in the input lead from the sidestand switch to the ECU.
20 • When the main switch is turned to "ON", the atmospheric pressure sensor voltage and intake air pressure sensor voltage differ greatly.
21 - Coolant temperature sensor: open or short circuit detected.
22 - Air temperature sensor: open or short circuit detected.
23 • Atmospheric pressure sensor: open or short circuit detected.
24 - No normal signal is received from the o2 sensor.
30 - Latch up detected. No normal signal is received from the lean angle sensor.
33 - Malfunction detected in the primary wire of the ignition coil (#1 and #4). FZ6
34 - Malfunction detected in the primary wire of the ignition coil (#2 and #3). FZ6
35 • Open circuit detected in the primary lead of the cylinder #3 ignition coil. R6
36 • Open circuit detected in the primary lead of the cylinder #4 ignition coil. R6
39 • Open ciruit detected in a primary injector. R6
40 • Open circuit detected in a secondary injector. R6
41 - Lean angle sensor: open or short circuit detected.
42 - No normal signals are received from the speed sensor. Open or short circuit detected in the Neutral switch.
43 - The ECU is unable to monitor the battery voltage (an open circuit in the line to the ECU). Power supply to the injectors and the fuel pump is not normal.
44 - An error is detected while reading or writing on EEPROM (C0 adjustment value).
46 - Power supply to the fuel injection system is not normal.
50 • Faulty ECU memory. (When this malfunction is detected in the ECU, the fault code number might not appear on the meter.)
59 • Throttle position sensor (for throttle cable pulley): open or short circuit detected. Throttle position sensor (for throttle cable pulley) coupler connection is loose.
60 • Throttle servo motor: open or short circuit detected. Defective throttle servo motor. Malfunction in ECU (servo motor driving system).

Er-1 - No signals are received from the ECU.
Er-2 - No signals are received from the ECU within the specified duration.
Er-3 - Data from the ECU cannot be received correctly.
Er-4 - Non-registered data has been received from the meter.

Sensor operation table:
01 : Throttle angle Fully closed position 15–17, Throttle fully opened position 97-100
02 • Atmospheric pressure given in mmHg (normal is 760 - average weather)
03 : Differential pressure between air and intake pipe
05 : Air intake temperature (in Celcius)
06 : Cooling liquid temperature (in Celcius)
07 : Absolute speed (must be 000 in wheel stopped). Check with rear wheel (0-999).
08 : Lean angle safety switch control - must be from 0.4-1.4 (upright) to 3.8-4.2 (horizontal). DISMOUT THE SWITCH FOR CHECKING !!!
09 : Battery voltage - should track actual battery voltage, use a DMM to verify.
20 : Side stand switch - displays ON or OFF. Retracted = ON, Extended = OFF
21 : Neutral gear switch - displays ON or OFF. Neutral = ON, In Gear = OFF


ECU memory check:
60: EEPROM fault code display. No Fault = 00, 01 - 02 Fault detection cylinder. (01: #1 and #4 // 02: #2 and #3)
61 : Error Code memory log - Displays 00 if no error code in memory, displays the Error Code if any (11 to 50). Display changes every two seconds if more than one Error Code in memory, then starting at the LOWEST CODE FIRST and goes up if others exist .
62 : Malfunction history code erasure. 00 = No history, 01- 17 = History exists. To clear the memory, switch the Engine Run Switch to ON position (no backup).
70 : Control number, display from 0 to 255

Following ERROR codes DO NOT allow engine to run:
12-19-30-41-50 and Er-1 to Er-4
Error code 11 allow engine to continue running only if fault appears after engine start.

Following ERROR codes DO allow engine to run but need immediate check because
default values are taken by the ECU: 13-14-15-16-21-22-24-33-34-42-43-44-46

EDIT:
Once in Diag mode, go to 01: and verify TPS by slowing rolling the throttle open and closed several times. Verify every count is displayed ~ 10 to 100. Everytime you slowly return the grip to its stop it should display the SAME VALUE EVERY TIME. Confirm that occurs.

**************
PASTE: From: http://www.600riders.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=227
**************

Throttle Position Sensor Issues (Are you Experiencing Poor Idle/Mileage, or Stalls?)

What are the Symptoms of a Faulty TPS?

• Stalling
• Irregual idle
• RPM Drop while acclerating or trying to maintain a constand speed.
• Drop in fuel Mileage
• Poor Throttle Response

Originally Posted by Megatron on sportbikes.net
To check the TPS values, you have to press and hold SELECT + RESET, then turn the key and keep them pressed for 8 more seconds.

It'll appear dIAg on the display, you can release them now. Afterwards use select until you see a d01 (Diagnostic Mode for the TPS)

Then it should read between 15 and 17 if the throttle is closed,
With the throttle fully open, it should read between 97 and 100.

If the values are over or below those I mentioned, the TPS should be replaced.

To leave the dIAG mode, simply turn the key counter clockwise.

For more discussion on testing TPS, see this post:
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/...&postcount=247

 

[Mkii]

Is it within your means to remove the spark plugs and examine them?

Also - please jump into diagnostic mode and look at the TPS signal. Something seems screwy!

From Post # 12; http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...uel-pump-battery-charging-brake-bleeding.html



EDIT:
Once in Diag mode, go to 01: and verify TPS by slowing rolling the throttle open and closed several times. Verify every count is displayed ~ 10 to 100. Everytime you slowly return the grip to its stop it should display the SAME VALUE EVERY TIME. Confirm that occurs.

**************
PASTE: From: http://www.600riders.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=227
**************

I did Check the TPS. was starting from 16-103 (full throttle) as far as i got it i got same values "everywhere" like 50 was about the same % of throttle as 50 before etc.

However…
I did check thru the whole system while i was going.
at:
d61: 19 + 30
d62: 2 (history memory), did reset it. and then the d61 got "00"
i suppose this was stored failures that i reseted now, but i'm not sure they are 100% restored.
19 = Open circuit is detected in the input lead from the sidestand switch to the ECU
30 = Latch up detected. No normal signal is received from the lean angle sensor

but as said they disappeared when i reseted it.

I also had an check in the "C0" file, i didn't read anywhere how to read the values there but this is the values i had
C1 -6 0
Explanation of how i did to get this values
"C1 -6 (appear after pressing both buttons for 2 sec) 0"

C2 0 0
"same story, pressed both to get the 0 in the middle"

The battery is "quiet" stabile. i could read it in d09. it shown 12.3 at the beginning, after about 20 "start attempt" it restored itself to about 12.1-12.2 volt

I haven't yet tried to connect a car battery and check if that works, so sorry folks, work is stealing my time

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Code 46 has stranded me on my commute home. Any quick ways to fix it? I assume
The code is what I'm reading when's I turn the ignition on.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

12.1-12.2 volts is 50-75% charged.

Cranking over the engine will drop the voltage even more. If you can check the voltage while cranking would be helpful.

A voltage tester to the BATTERY DIRECT would give you the most accurate reading..

My bike has started (and run)with the battery dropping to as low as 8 volts or so but the charging system brought it back up to almost 14 volts (and would run with the plus 13 volts.).....


If you have a charger (no more than 1.5 amp), put it on..

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Code 46 has stranded me on my commute home. Any quick ways to fix it? I assume
The code is what I'm reading when's I turn the ignition on.

Fault Code: 46
Diagnostic Code: --
Symptom: Power supply to the FI system is not normal.
Probable cause of malfunction:
Malfunction in "CHARGING SYSTEM".


Same as above, check the static (Not running) charge. Should be about 12.8 volts.

Once started and running, about 2500 RPM's, you should see about 14 volts (if its charging correctly)..

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Bike home safely. Sorry to temporarily hijack the thread. I was a bit desperate.

Will post questions in a formal thread.

Cheers,
nthdegreeburns

 

[FinalImpact]

Bike home safely. Sorry to temporarily hijack the thread. I was a bit desperate.

Will post questions in a formal thread.

Cheers,
nthdegreeburns

Gonna throw this in here. But for quick spot checks, reach your test leads into the Black and Red wires of the RR. They go straight to the battery so you can do this by removing the seat vs lifting the tank.

From: http://www.600riders.com/forum/showpost.php?p=579412&postcount=6

Batteries, Charging & the Regulator Rectifier
**************************

Work in progress! Content will be changed/updated! I'm finding this one difficult, there is too much to cover so I'm trying to find a sensible way to organize it.

**************************
WARNING: Should your FZ6 need jump start, Do NOT jump it from a RUNNING VEHICLE as you can damaged the charging system. We'll go into details later, but remember that!
**************************

WHAT DO YOU NEED TO KNOW!

12 Volt Battery ~12.72V:
A fully charged 12 volt lead acid battery is ~12.72 volts! It needs at least 13++ Volts from the charging system to stay charged! Yamaha specified a "no-load output from the charging system of 14.1 - 14.9vdc. (( Each cell is ~2.12V X6 = 12.72 ))

HEALTHY BATTERY = something like this:
If you think your bike is having charging issues, get an inexpensive volt ohm meter. On a healthy system you should find something like this:

12.95V - Battery voltage, engine off for 30 minutes to 30 days
12.82V - 1300 RPM - fan off, may be higher with single headlight
14.30V - 2500 RPM - fan off, but less than 14.5V above 5000 RPM

Battery Voltage can be checked from the RR w/the seat off:
Shown is Cold start, @ 1500 RPM, 14.4vdc



DURING STARTUP - EXPECT something like this:
KEY ON = 12.00V +0.35V/-0.50V (not cranking)
CRANKING = 10.50V +0.25V/-0.50V i.e. start button depressed & cranking. It's normal for the battery to drop about ~1.5V from static no load to cranking. NOTE: Batteries are temperature sensitive. As their temps drops, so does the voltage. As their temp increases, so does their voltage.

ENGINE CRANKS SLOWLY or NOT AT ALL:
You must have a volt meter! NOTE: Values will vary from bike to bike these are approximations!

Place volt meter across battery terminals. Your charged battery should show >12.8Vdc. Turn on key, it should drop no more than ~0.75 Volts. Press the stater button, the battery voltage should drop no more than ~2.0V.
If your battery voltage drops 2 volts or more and the engine cranks slowly;
1) Your battery may need charged
2) Your battery may have lost its depth of charge and is unable to deliver current needed. Charge it for 3 hrs min.

If your bike makes a clicking sound, battery voltage while off shows 12.8 volts, but drops below 8 volts or more.
1) Attempt to charge battery but suspicion leads to #2 (replacement).
2) Battery has reached its life cycle. Replace it.
3) Can we bring back the dead??? See battery post below. Its a long drawn out drain and charge process.

*********************

• 
  ERROR CODES DISPLAYED WHEN BATTERY VOLTAGE DROPS
• 46 Vehicle system power supply (Monitoring voltage)
• Power supply to the fuel injection system is not normal.
  
• Er-1 ECU internal malfunction (output signal error)
• No signals are received from the ECU.

Some members have reported the above errors as their battery was either low or failed to start their vehicle. Keep in mind that as the ECM does its diagnostic check, ER-1 may be displayed should the diagnostic check fail to complete. Think the ECM throwing up the white flag of surrender as its last communication before it could no longer function.
*********************

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Gonna throw this in here. But for quick spot checks, reach your test leads into the Black and Red wires of the RR. They go straight to the battery so you can do this by removing the seat vs lifting the tank.

RR? Where is this again? Thanks for the pointer. Much easier than lifting the tank, assuming I find out where the RR is.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

RR? Where is this again? Thanks for the pointer. Much easier than lifting the tank, assuming I find out where the RR is.

It the middle pic of the three squashed together.

The pic is taken with the seat off, lookng down, from the left side of the bike.

You can reach in there with your probes, you'll see a black and red wire. Those are what you want..

 

[Mkii]

Guys i was thinking.
the ignition and spark seems okay but is it possible that some sort of junk from the fuel pump (sediment or whatever) can have been stuck inside the fuel rail?
Does anyone know a good and none destructive way to dismount it and check it?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Guys i was thinking.
the ignition and spark seems okay but is it possible that some sort of junk from the fuel pump (sediment or whatever) can have been stuck inside the fuel rail?
Does anyone know a good and none destructive way to dismount it and check it?

You posted your battery is as low as 50% discharged STATIC, unknown the CRANKING voltage, however you don't seem to want to addresss it.

It NEEDS to be FULLY CHARGED and LOAD TESTED to rule it out. Any auto parts store/ Walmart, etc, can check it.

IMO, until thats done, and ruled out, your chasing ghosts...

Good luck...