Dual H4 HIDS vs H4/H7 I can use some input

[cjohns429]

After a ton of reading I've found a lot, but not exactly what I'm looking for, so here goes...

Seeing how a standard drop in HID kit (in this case, a Dual H4 hi/lo kit, so 2 h4 bulbs and 2 ballasts w/ hi/lo controller) only uses one stock headlight wire for the signal and uses the wiring harness/hi-lo relay for power, couldn't I just hook up a dual h4 kit and shave down the one h4 bulb to fit the stock h7 headlight housing? If I'm correct, this would give me an easy fix to the low-low, high-high setup that a lot of FZ6 guys go for?

This is basically the setup my GSXR has and it uses 2 H4 bulbs stock, so no shaving required. But I just wanted someone more familiar with the FZ6 to shine some light on this for me (I'm installing these on a friend's 09 FZ6)

Thanks for the help guys



Btw, I know there are a ton of HID posts, but everything Ive found for FZ6 shows you guys running wires from one bulb to another, or to the hi/lo switch, etc. Am I missing something or does my HID fix seem a little more simple?

 

[Motogiro]

:welcome:to the forum!

We have one member who specializes in HID set ups. Are these H4's you're talking about projectors with the internal shutter operation for high beam or are you talking about the HID direct replacements with a separate filament for high beam operation. The OEM FZ6 does not have a hi/lo beam relay. It does have dual low beams but the right low beam is not wired and you need a switching solution to use the H4 on the right side so as not to over heat the envelope.

 

[toasterboy85]

This is a reply from the retrofit store. (theretrofitstore.com):rockon: In regards to my question very similar to yours:

Hey Nathan,


Previously most of our customers retrofitted their sport bikes with the FX-R bi-xenon projectors because they were the smallest units we offered, allowing for a relatively easy install. However, a few months ago with came out with what's known as the Morimoto Mini Bi-xenon projectors, which are significantly smaller than anything else on the market, making them much easier to work with when it comes to small housings like you have on your FZ6 They also cost less, and sacrifice no real performance even despite their size - so overall definitely the best option for you.
The Bi-xenon Morimoto Mini Stage III H1 Kit includes everything you need: Bi-xenon Morimoto Mini Stage III Kit (H1) - Complete Retrofit Kits from The Retrofit Source Inc
Morimoto Mini H1 Bi-xenon projectors
Morimoto 3Five Ballasts
Morimoto 3Five H1 Bulbs
Mini Gatling Gun shrouds
H7 relay harness
$270 shipped UPS with tracking and insurance
We can also make you a custom H4 adapter to make the high beams plug n play, which would be a separate sub-harness for $10 more.

You can check them out at the link above. If you look close at the rear where the bulb enters, you'll see its threaded. This part fits through the pre-existing hole in the back of your reflector (where the light bulb comes through) and then you use the included lock-rings to literally clamp the projector down which holds them tight. This way, its basically a modification-free install.

The Morimoto bi-xenon projectors were designed specifically for the purpose of a retrofit into small headlights. Since their introduction they have been extremely popular for their amazing performance (really wide, uniformly lit, bright beam pattern with a great looking cutoff line) and relatively compact, easy to mount design. With a curved cutoff shield and stock clear lens, there is nothing else that will fit better and offer these levels of light output.

The projectors come with the Mini Gatling shrouds, which are also small enough to fit within most sport bike housings with little to no trimming compared to all of the other full size shrouds.

after the retrofit you will have 2x low beams, and 2x bi-xenon highs instead of a single low/high like you do now. The way this will work is that the relay harness has one input (which will plug into your H7 low beam output) but then has 2 outputs for the ballasts. So you get the 2 low beams/ballasts running at the same time. From there - you just tie the wires together for the bi-xenon solenoids on the projectors (+/- and -/-) and run them into the high beam output socket to control both projector high beams at the same time. Voila!

And lastly, the Morimoto 3Five ballasts are ideal for your FZ6 since there isn't much room directly behind the headlights too. With integrated igniters, a small body, and longer than normal outputs from the ballast to the back of the bulb - you're able to mount them elsewhere behind your fairings.
To help you better visualize all this stuff, here are a few links to some related customer-provided pictures:

Morimoto Mini: TRSMatt's Album: Morimoto Mini H1 Bi-xenon Projectors
Sport bike Retrofits:TRSMatt's Album: Sport Bikes!

If there are any other questions or if you would like to order, feel free to ask and we'll be happy to help. You can simply reply to this email, or give us a call at 614-653-3451. We can accept orders either through the website, PayPal custom invoice, or over the phone with a credit card.

Thanks again Nathan,

Matt @ TRS

 

[phranK2k11]

Doing the BD43 headlight mod will give you a proper H4 on the right (as seated) side. ie. only one filament i powered at a time.

I have also considered whittling down the base of a H4 HID to fit in the left (as seated) H7 hole

If you get it to work Please Please PLEASE take pics and make a "how to"

 

[cjohns429]

:welcome:to the forum!

The OEM FZ6 does not have a hi/lo beam relay. It does have dual low beams but the right low beam is not wired and you need a switching solution to use the H4 on the right side so as not to over heat the envelope.

I was under the impression that both lows were always on, but then when you flip ont he highs only the h4 bulb would be effected...but I guess this is just one of the mods I read about.

I'm gonna take a look at his bike soon and see if I can get it figured out.

Man, what was Yamaha thinking on this setup??? My GSXR has 55w 8000k Dual H4's and they were pretty straight forward to install. I feel bad for you guys with the FZ6's and having to deal with all the extra work...

I'll keep you guys updated if I manage to get the project started. Thanks for the input! :thumbup:

 

[Motogiro]

I was under the impression that both lows were always on, but then when you flip ont he highs only the h4 bulb would be effected...but I guess this is just one of the mods I read about.

I'm gonna take a look at his bike soon and see if I can get it figured out.

Man, what was Yamaha thinking on this setup??? My GSXR has 55w 8000k Dual H4's and they were pretty straight forward to install. I feel bad for you guys with the FZ6's and having to deal with all the extra work...

I'll keep you guys updated if I manage to get the project started. Thanks for the input! :thumbup:

It's not much work at all to properly light the H4 on the FZ6. My SV uses the same H4 configuration as your GSXR.

Again :welcome:

 

[cjohns429]

A new, but similar question. Take a standard drop in HID kit like DDM for example. 2 bulbs (lets say both H4), 2 ballasts, and a hi/lo relay/controller built for the kit. Does anyone know a way to connect the hi/lo controller directly to the stock hi/lo handlebar switch? This would basically bypass the stock bulb sockets and use the hi/lo controller connected to the battery for powering the bulbs and would allow for easy switching of low to high....just a theory

I'm just doing a little brainstorming here but not too sure of it...this would allow a dual H4 setup for lo-lo, hi-hi operation if I can find a way to make it work.

 

[fz6robinson]

My kids got me a standard drop in HID kit (a Dual H4 hi/lo kit, so 2 h4 bulbs and 2 ballasts w/ hi/lo controller) which only uses one stock headlight wire for signal and power, for my Xmas present.

We fitted the kit, shaved down the left H4 bulb to fit. When we hooked up the left side, both headlights lit up on low beam (the high beam didn't work when pressing the high beam/pass switch), when we did the right side both head lights lit up on high beam and the high beam/pass switch didn't work.

We kept the power on the right side light and wired the top terminal on the HID connector to the black wire with the green tracer on the left side light and now it works as it should, both head lights are lit up on low beam and when the high beam/pass switch is pressed both head lights are lit up on high beam.

I would like to point out that before we put the HID kit on, my lights were bog standard (only one was lit up on low beam) I think if I had done BD43 head light mod prior to fitting the HID kit and connecting the power to the right side terminal, I wouldn't of had the problems of low/low or high/High only.

I went for a test ride and I am well impressed with the brightness of the lights, and I had no cars flashing at me. One last thing, the side lights look like a dirty yellow colour now, so I am going to replace them with some brighter ones.

Hopes this helps out

 

[Motogiro]

My kids got me a standard drop in HID kit (a Dual H4 hi/lo kit, so 2 h4 bulbs and 2 ballasts w/ hi/lo controller) which only uses one stock headlight wire for signal and power, for my Xmas present.

We fitted the kit, shaved down the left H4 bulb to fit. When we hooked up the left side, both headlights lit up on low beam (the high beam didn't work when pressing the high beam/pass switch), when we did the right side both head lights lit up on high beam and the high beam/pass switch didn't work.

We kept the power on the right side light and wired the top terminal on the HID connector to the black wire with the green tracer on the left side light and now it works as it should, both head lights are lit up on low beam and when the high beam/pass switch is pressed both head lights are lit up on high beam.

I would like to point out that before we put the HID kit on, my lights were bog standard (only one was lit up on low beam) I think if I had done BD43 head light mod prior to fitting the HID kit and connecting the power to the right side terminal, I wouldn't of had the problems of low/low or high/High only.

I went for a test ride and I am well impressed with the brightness of the lights, and I had no cars flashing at me. One last thing, the side lights look like a dirty yellow colour now, so I am going to replace them with some brighter ones.

Hopes this helps out

I think most of the H4 HID conversions people are talking about use two separate envelopes per lamp assembly. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. This would be the HID low beam in one envelope and an incandescent filament for high beam in another envelope. This configuration would be one single H4 lamp emulation. Because the filament for the high beam is in a separate envelope (HID conversion) there is no reason to switch off the low beam HID for heat protection and subsequently restarting the Lo beam HID when the high beam is turned off again. This type switching is for generic H4 set up where you must switch the low beam filament off when the high beam is activated to prevent over heating of the glass envelope which results in premature failure of the standard H4 lamp. The reason for this is there are two filaments (Hi & Lo beams) that reside in the same envelope of a standard H4.

On the HID conversion that uses two separate envelopes for the H4 emulation you should be able to power the low beams on both lamps from their respective transformers and there is no need to switch them off during high beam. Both high beams will be run together from the black with yellow tracer wire. Since you are using the two separate envelopes there is no reason to shut off the low beam during high beam so you wouldn't use headlamp mod. Long term use of the high beam may create unusually high heat at the lamp base.

The only thing I would consider is that although the typical HID uses 35 watts compared to 55 watts per each low beam, on a standard H4, and because you turn on two 65 watts high beams and the low beams don't turn off, you are drawing a total of 200 watts with this configuration.

So here's a run down of wattage use.

OEM FZ6:
Low beam 55 watts
High beam 120 watts

OEM FZ6 with Headlight mod:
Low beam 110 watts
High beam 120 watts

Dual H4 HID conversion:
Low beam 70 watts
High beam 200watts

Dual HID projectors
Low beam 70 watts
High beam 70 watts plus a few a few milliamps for raising the shutter.

As you can see the HID projectors are the best answer as far as power management and great useable light with the ability to aim that light regardless of reflector design because it uses a lens.

The OEM FZ6 with headlamp mod. will give you improved light by lighting both low beams and proper H4 Hi - Lo beam switching.

 

[mave2911]

Dual H4 HID conversion:
Low beam 70 watts
High beam 200watts

All of the HID kits I've seen and fitted use a magnetic plunger to change the high/low 'focus'.

As such, the low beam and high beam is the same wattage on these systems, just moves the plunger in/out to utilise a different section of the reflector.

Though, I do think the 55W HID kits give far, far superior light to the 35W commonly available. (total hi or low is still only 110W)

Cheers,
Rick

EDIT: I too am VERY interested in dual H4s, if they can be made to fit - or another set of headlights to try to modify - do the Americanese bikes have the H4 on the left or right? (the Aust ones are on the R, sitting on the bike)

 

[Motogiro]

All of the HID kits I've seen and fitted use a magnetic plunger to change the high/low 'focus'.

As such, the low beam and high beam is the same wattage on these systems, just moves the plunger in/out to utilise a different section of the reflector.

Though, I do think the 55W HID kits give far, far superior light to the 35W commonly available. (total hi or low is still only 110W)

Cheers,
Rick

EDIT: I too am VERY interested in dual H4s, if they can be made to fit - or another set of headlights to try to modify - do the Americanese bikes have the H4 on the left or right? (the Aust ones are on the R, sitting on the bike)

Yes you are correct about the plunger but the H4 HID conversions don't use a plunger. They are generally one HID with an additional incandescent lamp.
so 2 x 35 watts for the HID, No plunger, turn on the high beam and you have 2 x 65 plus 2 x 35 for a total of 200 watts with the high beam on. So because you wouldn't shut down the low bead HID lamp and you're adding the incandescent high beam, you're now using a load of current.
The projectors use the shutter/plunger and use the same lamp with no addition wattage except a small amount for the plunger.

US bikes have the H4 on the right hand side(sitting on the bike).

I wish I could find a feasible H7 conversion. My SV1000s has the two H7's but it looks like it will be projectors if and when it happens.

 

[mave2911]

H4 HID conversions don't use a plunger. They are generally one HID with an additional incandescent lamp.

I've never seen a setup like that, seems a bit stupid!

Is it available as a specific 'FZ6 conversion kit' or something? (any links?)

US bikes have the H4 on the right hand side(sitting on the bike).

So, no help there then. I was hoping to swap my H4 for your H4, if they were on different sides!

I wish I could find a feasible H7 conversion. My SV1000s has the two H7's but it looks like it will be projectors if and when it happens.

Do your H7s have a shutter? I wonder if you can get an adapter between the H4 bulb and the H7 socket?

That would save a lot of problems!

Cheers,
Rick

 

[Cameronhall]

not trying to hi jack the thread but i have and fz6n with sv-2 conversion i believe and only have just the one H4 bulb. i want to get an HID kit but i dont need both of the HIDs that come in the kit. what company should i go with? :hijack:

 

[Motogiro]

Sorry..... :tard: Correction: My SV has H4's and that's what I was thinking I'd like to swap the H4 out for the H4 HID conversion.

 

[Motogiro]

Here's a typical H4 conversion. You can see the transformer leads that feed the HID. The leads that are not plugged in are the high beam leads and they supply the incandescent lamp (not shown). You can see that minimally you'd be drawing 70 watts using 2 HID low beams and then add the 2 x 65 watt high beams.

You're correct, seems stupid. The problem is people want HID. It doesn't really matter what the outcome is. They want HID. Doesn't matter what the cost is to others in oncoming lanes or that it's not legal because of ill design. They want HID.

If there's an H4 conversion that uses a shutter or plunger that's a direct H4 conversion please show me the link. The only ones I've seen turn out to be these dual HID/Incandescent type, so the longevity of the lamp isn't equal to a standard HID set up because if the incandescent filament. So how much and where do I get that lamp when one poops out? Go to any automotive supply store and find one. At least if you have a standard projector lamp you expect it to have longevity of HID and will probably find a replacement. But the H4 conversions I've seen aren't worthy unless you've just got to have HID at any cost.

I've just looked up H4 and this is what I've found. Where is the plunger/shutter? They look like H7, one lamp with no way to provide two modes of light.

 

[degake]

If there's an H4 conversion that uses a shutter or plunger that's a direct H4 conversion please show me the link. The only ones I've seen turn out to be these dual HID/Incandescent type, so the longevity of the lamp isn't equal to a standard HID set up because if the incandescent filament.

I've just looked up H4 and this is what I've found. Where is the plunger/shutter? They look like H7, one lamp with no way to provide two modes of light.

These bulbs your showing are DUAL xenon bulbs (so hid + incandescent).
What you're after are the BI-Xenon bulbs, which have a mechanism that moves the bulb inside it's housing, creating a different light output.

You can see the 3 sorts (incandescent, dual and bi-xenon) here: Different bulbs

These bi-xenon bulbs are widely available, but they'll require some extra space behind the headlight for the tilting mechanism.

Grtz,


Degake

 

[patrickb37]

I installed a conversion kit from TheRetrofitSource on my FZ6 about a month ago. Got the Morimoto Mini projector kit.

The wiring was actually quite easy. Just connect the high/low beams to the corresponding wires in the relay harness. I reconfigured the supplied harness to match the ground/low pinout for the FZ6's low-beam harness. I pulled the high beam pin from the new harness and plugged it into the FZ6's high-beam harness. Didn't need to connect ground to FZ6 high-beam harness.

Their relay harness uses a diode to ensure that the low beams are always powered on, regardless of whether the active wire is the high or low beam. This ensures the ballasts are always on. When the high beam is selected, it also activates the solenoids that pull away the metal flap that gives the low beam cutoff. There's no need to do the dual headlight mod prior to installing.

The projectors that get installed are identical; the only difference between the H4 and H7 is that you use a different back plate when mounting the projector into the FZ6's housing. I did have to dremel the housing a bit to be able to tighten the lock nut onto the projector (can't remember if this was on the H4 or H7 side).