Dealers can be so closed minded!

[brad81987]

So with 700 miles on it I took my FZ6 to the dealer to have the initial check-up performed. I had changed the oil myself at 150 miles with regular Rotella 15w-40 and a pureone filter so I bought the same stuff again and figured I'd just let them do it this time around. I left it in the tank bag and just told them to use the oil I had in the bag when i dropped it off. Well I get a call from the service guy a few minutes ago telling me quote "You can't use that oil in a bike" I told him that's what's in it now and i'd had no problems with it and it's been widely accepted that it's ok to run oil in motorcycles that don't specifically say "Motorcycle oil" on them. So he goes into a spheel about how cars have separate transmission and engine oil (durrrr) but in a motorcycle you have a wet clutch and it all uses the same and if i run that oil it will cause my clutch to slip. (How odd that it hasn't the last 550 miles i've been running it). I didn't want to argue so I just said fine put the Yamaha stuff in. I'll at least save $10 over a Yamaha filter and i'll just use the Rotella when I change it next time.

I really have been quite pleased with these guys, we've bought a few machines from them and had them work on numerous ones in the past but i'm somewhat disappointed they could be so closed minded about it. I know they have to cover their butts but he more or less didn't even give me the option to have them still put what i brought in, even with my understanding being given that it's not recommended.

 

[Mart Man FZ6]

So with 700 miles on it I took my FZ6 to the dealer to have the initial check-up performed. I had changed the oil myself at 150 miles with regular Rotella 15w-40 and a pureone filter so I bought the same stuff again and figured I'd just let them do it this time around. I left it in the tank bag and just told them to use the oil I had in the bag when i dropped it off. Well I get a call from the service guy a few minutes ago telling me quote "You can't use that oil in a bike" I told him that's what's in it now and i'd had no problems with it and it's been widely accepted that it's ok to run oil in motorcycles that don't specifically say "Motorcycle oil" on them. So he goes into a spheel about how cars have separate transmission and engine oil (durrrr) but in a motorcycle you have a wet clutch and it all uses the same and if i run that oil it will cause my clutch to slip. (How odd that it hasn't the last 550 miles i've been running it). I didn't want to argue so I just said fine put the Yamaha stuff in. I'll at least save $10 over a Yamaha filter and i'll just use the Rotella when I change it next time.

I really have been quite pleased with these guys, we've bought a few machines from them and had them work on numerous ones in the past but i'm somewhat disappointed they could be so closed minded about it. I know they have to cover their butts but he more or less didn't even give me the option to have them still put what i brought in, even with my understanding being given that it's not recommended.

You do have to be careful what type oil you put in your bike due to the wet clutch. Some oils have additives that break down the lining on the clutch plates. When I had my bike in for the 4K mile service, they had another bike in the shop that had a blown motor. The inspection showed the oil was trashed and full of clutch plate material that jacked up the motor when circulating through it.

Not sure if the oil you selected has this problem, but thought it might be good to let people know of the potential.

 

[wolfc70]

What dealership in the Valley? I bought mine at Team Winnebagoland, and same story there to, only Yamaha oil will work or the wet clutch will implode then explode et cetera. B.S.

As long as the oil does not have "energy conserving" in the API label, it will work.

 

[brad81987]

You do have to be careful what type oil you put in your bike due to the wet clutch. Some oils have additives that break down the lining on the clutch plates. When I had my bike in for the 4K mile service, they had another bike in the shop that had a blown motor. The inspection showed the oil was trashed and full of clutch plate material that jacked up the motor when circulating through it.

Not sure if the oil you selected has this problem, but thought it might be good to let people know of the potential.

Thanks, I know and agree 100% but Rotella T and Rotella T synthetic are both regarded as pretty good around here is the only thing.

 

[brad81987]

What dealership in the Valley? I bought mine at Team Winnebagoland, and same story there to, only Yamaha oil will work or the wet clutch will implode then explode et cetera. B.S.

As long as the oil does not have "energy conserving" in the API label, it will work.

Appleton Powersports. I guess everyones out to cover their butts, plus i'm sure they make a killing on Yamaha oil, I mean there's no way a semi-syn is worth $7/qt or w/e ungodly amount they charge.

 

[DefyInertia]

If you're going to put synthetic in your bike, you should really read this (post #3 specifically) first...

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/2755-what-oil.html

At least then you'll know what you're getting into...

 

[brad81987]

If you're going to put synthetic in your bike, you should really read this (post #3 specifically) first...

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/2755-what-oil.html

At least then you'll know what you're getting into...

I've seen that before, nearly fell off my chair. Is that all for fun or do you really have something against synthetics?

 

[Tailgate]

Now, I'm not so eager to change to Shell Rotella synthetic my next change (4,000 miles). I thought that I read enough threads on oil and had decided that I was going to find the Rotella at Walmart for the next change. Now, this Yamaha mechanic (or is he really a bona fide mechanic?) advises against it? And a poster warns of pitfalls of what synthetic does long-term to clutch plates? Oh geez. WTF. I want smoother shifts...but not at the expense of premature wearing of my clutch plates. I am sick of reading oil threads. Look, either that mechanic (and the rest of the crew at the shop) has things backassbackwards or what he says is true. But, I have to say, the owner's manual only says to don't using energy conserving II or higher, or oils with a "CD" specification. Also, API service SG type or higher, JASO standard MA. 20-40 or 10-30 for colder climates.

 

[HavBlue]

Going to the dealer I would expect them to use "only" motorcycle specific oils, "only" in the specifications represented in the service manual or owner's manual and "only" at the list price point. Seriously, how could you expect anything less?

I would also agree with the tech in that some oils can and will cause clutch slippage but these are energy conserving lubricants typically found in cages and I have yet to see a motorcycle specific oil in the energy conserving category. Are they covering their butts? You're dang right they are and if you were the owner of the shop that had been taken to court and lost in the past you would be covering your butt too. We know there are oils out there that do work better as represented by the thousands of posts available from all over the world that do tell a rider's story. However, they don't have to deal with some idiot customer that wanted some out of character oil put in their bike and then when it all went wrong decided to sue them for an unrelated problem and won because the courts didn't know any better. Don't blame the dealer. Rather, blame those idiots in the court that have allowed the consumer to be right on virtually everything and this would include the fact they didn't read the owner's manual. Go figure.....

 

[wrightme43]

Yes nothing really against lawyers and the courts, but running them over with trucks would be a good start.

 

[HavBlue]

Yes nothing really against lawyers and the courts, but running them over with trucks would be a good start.

I couldn't agree more....

 

[wolfc70]

Now, I'm not so eager to change to Shell Rotella synthetic my next change (4,000 miles). I thought that I read enough threads on oil and had decided that I was going to find the Rotella at Walmart for the next change. Now, this Yamaha mechanic (or is he really a bona fide mechanic?) advises against it? And a poster warns of pitfalls of what synthetic does long-term to clutch plates? Oh geez. WTF. I want smoother shifts...but not at the expense of premature wearing of my clutch plates. I am sick of reading oil threads. Look, either that mechanic (and the rest of the crew at the shop) has things backassbackwards or what he says is true. But, I have to say, the owner's manual only says to don't using energy conserving II or higher, or oils with a "CD" specification. Also, API service SG type or higher, JASO standard MA. 20-40 or 10-30 for colder climates.

Any oil will work. Some automotive and diesel oils that have "energy conserving" on the API label can cause clutch slippage. The lower weight CD diesel oils may have these, so avoid them. Any thing with a XX-40 will most likely not have these. You can switch to synthetic at any time. A case in point; my cousin had a 1988 Ford Taurus with the 2.5l four. He got the car with 180,000 miles on it, and promptly switched over to synthetic oil. He kept the car untill the transmission went out at 298,000 miles. He experinced no oil leaks or anything else abnormal. Anytime you switch to synthetic and get a leak, it was going to start leaking soon anyway. The same is true during break in, any metal signifigant enough to wear, will wear no matter what oil is providing the lubrication.

Dealers are going to recommend motorcycle specific oils just incase something goes wrong, then they can say the proper oil was in the crankcase/gearbox/clutch. If you are nervous about any oil, do not run it. Run the oil that will allow you to sleep at night.:thumbup:

 

[Tailgate]

Thanks wolfc70 for the input. You gotta wonder (despite what HavBlue said earlier) why the mechanic would give wrong-ass info regarding a specific oil. Okay, HavBlue says it's a CYA thing; this gets me to thinking if there's ever an engine/transmission/clutch problem and you bring bike in for warranty claim work that this same mechanic---or others with the same Yamaha training---are going to cite "inproper oil" or something and balk at doing warranty work. I'm getting the feeling that Yamaha has a bad reputation in honoring warranty work...especially for those owners that don't patronize their parts department or something. Yeah, this is the sense that I'm getting---that Yamaha cannot be counted on when it comes to warranty work. I suppose, if one were to have a possible warranty claim, the owner could drain the synthetic and replace with Yamalube or something non-synthetic. But, I don't like it. Stink-o-meter is registering with this whole business. If that one Yamaha mechanic is trash talking synthetic oil then, I imagine, that this is routine among Yamaha employees/mechanics. Is anyone else starting to smell a rat?

 

[wrightme43]

No I have to disagree. Yamaha has a very good reputation for standing behind thier products.

You can use what ever oil you like that meets the specs called out for the engine in the owners manual, UNLESS YAMAHA WANTS TO PROVIDE THIER OIL FOR FREE.
Moss Magnuson act. The dealership or factory are not allowed to call out a brand of product, unless they will provide it for free, as a condition of warrenty.

All that has happened is you ran into a jackass. He doesnt represent Yamaha. Find a good, intelligent, quiet mechanic. They are not just laying around. They are always busy. Tip the man with cash. Be polite, and ask specificly for him. If he leaves find out where he went and take your bike to him. The fact is good mechanics have all the work they can do. They dont need your or my business, if you find one, make them like working on your stuff. Bring it clean, tip them, and follow their advice.

 

[Tailgate]

No I have to disagree. Yamaha has a very good reputation for standing behind thier products.

You can use what ever oil you like that meets the specs called out for the engine in the owners manual, UNLESS YAMAHA WANTS TO PROVIDE THIER OIL FOR FREE.
Moss Magnuson act. The dealership or factory are not allowed to call out a brand of product, unless they will provide it for free, as a condition of warrenty.

All that has happened is you ran into a jackass. He doesnt represent Yamaha. .

How can you say that when the mechanic did/said just the opposite? The mechanic told the owner that, no, owner couldn't/shouldn't use the synthetic oil. And I have to demur, that mechanic does represent Yamaha. Now, I can appreciate learning about the law you cited. That's good to know. If I had a transmission/clutch/engine problem and, say, I brought the bike in on a warranty claim, this would certainly help. But, who looks forward to fighting a dealership over this? Obviously, the mechanic/shop, after reading the riot act over using synthetic oil, are going point at the very oil they sternly warned against using. Or, do you think that other mechanics in the same dealership hold opposite views regarding oil? I doubt it. I bet that all the mechanics there are reading from the same playbook. Sure, you may be right about what the law states, but is this the kind of hassle/uphill battle that one wants over a dealership contesting a warranty claim?

 

[wolfc70]

Thanks wolfc70 for the input. You gotta wonder (despite what HavBlue said earlier) why the mechanic would give wrong-ass info regarding a specific oil. Okay, HavBlue says it's a CYA thing; this gets me to thinking if there's ever an engine/transmission/clutch problem and you bring bike in for warranty claim work that this same mechanic---or others with the same Yamaha training---are going to cite "inproper oil" or something and balk at doing warranty work. I'm getting the feeling that Yamaha has a bad reputation in honoring warranty work...especially for those owners that don't patronize their parts department or something. Yeah, this is the sense that I'm getting---that Yamaha cannot be counted on when it comes to warranty work. I suppose, if one were to have a possible warranty claim, the owner could drain the synthetic and replace with Yamalube or something non-synthetic. But, I don't like it. Stink-o-meter is registering with this whole business. If that one Yamaha mechanic is trash talking synthetic oil then, I imagine, that this is routine among Yamaha employees/mechanics. Is anyone else starting to smell a rat?

Most dealers want to SELL you what they have on the shelf, and factory oil is very profitable. Honda oil is cheaper than the Yamaha stuff, and meets the same specs, so that is an alternative. As stated above Yamaha can not force you to use their oil and filters unless they provide them. If you change your oil regularly, there will not be any oil related issue, even if you run automotive oils. Automotive oils may cause clutch slippage, but you may never even notice it on the street. Choose the correct weight range and do not worry, your bike will not explode if you run a 15-40 or a 5-40 or a 20-50 or anythign in between (but stay away from 5-30and 5-20 oils).:thumbup:

 

[wolfc70]

How can you say that when the mechanic did/said just the opposite? The mechanic told the owner that, no, owner couldn't/shouldn't use the synthetic oil. And I have to demur, that mechanic does represent Yamaha. Now, I can appreciate learning about the law you cited. That's good to know. If I had a transmission/clutch/engine problem and, say, I brought the bike in on a warranty claim, this would certainly help. But, who looks forward to fighting a dealership over this? Obviously, the mechanic/shop, after reading the riot act over using synthetic oil, are going point at the very oil they sternly warned against using. Or, do you think that other mechanics in the same dealership hold opposite views regarding oil? I doubt it. I bet that all the mechanics there are reading from the same playbook. Sure, you may be right about what the law states, but is this the kind of hassle/uphill battle that one wants over a dealership contesting a warranty claim?

Do not ever, ever under any circumstance visit this dealer again, RUN AWAY!
Find another dealer in the area and talk to them. My dealer service manager said only to use Yamaha oil, the actual mechanic said anything but automotive oils will be ok. It should not be this difficult. Yamaha has to prove that your "wrong" oil caused the failure. Oil is not going to damage anything in 20,000 miles. You will be fine, just find another dealer.

 

[jamesfz6]

I think the dealer just wanted to charge you $7 a quart. He figured he would tell you something like that to make more money on the oil change, not like 78 dollars an hour isnt a rip off already.

I work at a car dealership and i sell parts on the back counter (for the shop). I see tickets come in all the time where people will request 0 weight diesel oil for a 4 cylinder ford focus. They say it makes the motor run better But one thing i have learned in my years of selling parts........the customer is always right. I know it is an old, repeated, saying but it is true. If it were me i would have gone and picked up my bike and told them i'll take it to somelpace that will follow my instructions.

Nothing irritates me more than to hear a business tell someone how to spend their money.

 

[wrightme43]

LOL
Ok it cant be a fight because the service facility knows it will lose.
Yes more than likely they do have a intelligent tech able to think for themselves that thinks that the one that told you not to use synthetic is a raging moron.
If they dont have one, find one.
Unless Yamaha is paying the mechanic he does not represent Yamaha. He may represent the dealership, but more than likely if the owner heard him, and ACTUALLY knew he was wrong, the owner would have his ass. If the owner read this thread he would have his ass.
Its very easy for me to say it.
I used to be a professional Desiel mechanic. Cummins Select Plus and Detroit Desiel certified. I may very well go back into that business as I am about to close mine. I liked the customers that would hand me a 20$ and wander off. I made time for them. I went out of my way to make sure nothing was overlooked. I had one customer when I worked on RVs with a Prevost (pusher Cat engine) he would hand me a 100$ bill and leave. I promise that doesnt just happen cause of being a jackass. It happens because you earn your customers trust. Now do you think anything was ever missed on those guys trucks? I wanted them to come back and ask for me again. Everything that could possibley be checked was. I knew the deal, he didnt want to have a problem, he figured it was cheaper to pay the man to make sure he didnt have a problem that could be prevented.

 

[Tailgate]

I wouldn't be surprised if that Yamaha dealership balked at a warranty service claim because owner didn't patronize dealership for a fill-up every time with Yamahaline (new Yamaha brand gasoline) Yeah, personally, I think I would tell personnel there to "blow it out your ass" but then I might find myself out of a Yamaha dealership to deal with my warranty claim. Well, at any rate, I have to say that Yamaha is not dealing any aces my way. Look, if Yamaha---or one of its dealers---is blowing a gasket over an owner using synthetic oil, they'll proabably blow a rod if you come into them for a synthetic oil engine warranty claim . And if you fight it, it'll probably be a long-protracted dispute mediation through US corporate headquarters. I remember when I was 15 and rode a Suzuki 50. I blew a reed valve (or something like that) and the dealership denied the warranty claim. My father had it out with the corporate office through written correspondence. The dealership was subsequently ordered to fix the bike under warranty. Blah, blah, and more blah. Yak, yak, yak. I'm sick of lousy dealerships.