Congrats USA with your new president!

[FZSex]

The Blame Game. The party in power blames the previous party in power for the current problems. The party not in power blames the party in power for the current problems.

Who is right? I don't know.

I only know that I'm royally pissed at both parties. The Republicans have never represented me. But when two out of three Democrats voted for the mortgage bailout, and five out of seven Republicans voted against it, I came to the conclusion that the Democrats do not represent me either.

I voted Libertarian and have no regrets.

I'm not blaming, the economy goes in cycles and the numbers are the numbers. personally neither party looks out for me. Ron Paul is the only one that makes sense TO ME but he never had a chance ... so I do what I always do... vote for the one that is least likely to mess with my money or my guns and that is almost always republicans. Plus the left always has the agenda for male male marriage, ACLU, take my money and give it to those who wont work, etc. and that is just opposite of my thinking.

 

[Capo79]

Someone is seriously mixing the terms here. First of all; socialism isn't dead. It's communism that's dead.

Let me tell you that most European countries have socialism to some extent. In other words mixed economies.

Also remember that the Scandinavian model (monarchies as state forms and parlamentarism as executive and ruling - not two-parties, but several political parties) have proven to be the most successful form of state governing. We have free markets, stock exchanges, central banks, but also regulations and a trustworthy public sector to enforce these regulations (very much in line with what John Maynard Keynes thought of the "perfect economy"). We have the least amount of corruption in the world, and Norway has been pointed out as the best country in the world to live and work in by the UN more than three consecutive times. Free healthcare, pension plans, social security networks in general and so on. Sure, all this comes at a cost in form of taxation etc, but if you flip the coin: You guys have to pay your health insurances.

To sum up: Socialism isn't communism.

 

[Capo79]

An let me add to the common misconseption of people not bothering to work if the social security network is "too good": Scandinavians are the ones that have the highest GDP per capita (adjusted for natural recources that surely have a great impact on GDP).

Wouldn't it also be great to have totally free higher education? Well, that's the case in Scandinavia. Anyone can attend universities and colleges without spending a dime in tuition, and what's more: Any economist will agree that education is the single most important thing to make an economy grow and prosper.

 

[dako81]

I don't think anything is going to change, just different faces.

But, who knows.

All I ask is that when foreign people/countries think about the US, and they see things that the government does, or direct results of the choices of the US government, that they don't hold every American accountable, because we didn't choose to do whatever it was that they did. They did.

 

[FizzySix]

So in Scandinavia, women pursue the men, and education is free?

That sounds great! As a product of our public schools, though, I must ask: where is this heavenly "Scandinavia" you speak of? I bet it's on the west coast, stories from there always make it sound so good.

:justkidding:

 

[FZSex]

So in Scandinavia, women pursue the men, and education is free?

That sounds great! As a product of our public schools, though, I must ask: where is this heavenly \"Scandinavia\" you speak of? I bet it's on the west coast, stories from there always make it sound so good.

:justkidding:

Its in Wisconsin, dumbass

 

[Gilo-FZ6]

well just watched his speech..more cliches than a Roland Emmerich action/disaster movie.

 

[Philippe1985]

So in Scandinavia, women pursue the men, and education is free?

That sounds great! As a product of our public schools, though, I must ask: where is this heavenly \"Scandinavia\" you speak of? I bet it's on the west coast, stories from there always make it sound so good.

:justkidding:

Scandinavia is Northern Europe: Sweden, Finland, Norway and Denmark. I heard you can get even ground for free somewhere. I have a friend who lived in Sweden.(that's why I knew the story about the women )

 

[Kamloops]

Hope this was not you?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDDleD8JCT8"]YouTube - Man hit with shopping cart at walmart[/ame]

I had to use one of those one time. I had a sprained ankle after totalling my ex's Nighthawk 250. (I did her a favor.)

I was on crutches and couldn't hold a shopping bag, so I used a cart.

I started on my shopping. As a sidenote, how do you get and stay fat when you use one of those things? The basket is tiny!

But halfway through the store I see a 400+ pound woman coming the other way on her fat cart. She spies me, and in much the same way that riders ID each other and give a not or a wave, she made eye contact and gave me a look that seemed to say,\\"Welcome to the club. You're now one of us. One of us. One of us.\\"

Piss on that. I got up out of my cripple cart, grabbed a crutch, and hobbled my way across the bakery section to grab something off a shelf. Item in my free hand, I limped back and got back in the cart.

It hurt like hell, but I did it to make a point to her. I did not want, for one second, to be identified as being part of the \\"I'm so fat I can't walk\\" subculture.

 

[Capo79]

So in Scandinavia, women pursue the men, and education is free?

That sounds great! As a product of our public schools, though, I must ask: where is this heavenly \\"Scandinavia\\" you speak of? I bet it's on the west coast, stories from there always make it sound so good.

:justkidding:

Jeez... I had to read that twice

 

[Oscar54]

Someone is seriously mixing the terms here. First of all; socialism isn't dead. It's communism that's dead.

To sum up: Socialism isn't communism.

Capo you are wasting your time. Those who throw out the word "Socialism" or "Socialist" don't have a clue what they are talking about.

They get their heads filled with the talking points on Faux Neews, and Rush Limbaugh, and run around blaming the poor for everything that's wrong, or fat people, or Gays, or "Liberals" OMG!

The revisionist history that is already starting will be interesting. They are already blaming Clinton for 9/11. W inherited sh!t burger from the Democrats...etc.

 

[FZSex]

Capo you are wasting your time. Those who throw out the word \"Socialism\" or \"Socialist\" don't have a clue what they are talking about.

They get their heads filled with the talking points on Faux Neews, and Rush Limbaugh, and run around blaming the poor for everything that's wrong, or fat people, or Gays, or \"Liberals\" OMG!

The revisionist history that is already starting will be interesting. They are already blaming Clinton for 9/11. W inherited sh!t burger from the Democrats...etc.

Wow, glad you are unbiased in your assessment :thumbup: :Flip:

 

[Oscar54]

Wow, glad you are unbiased in your assessment :thumbup: :Flip:

Why thank-you.

 

[Capo79]

I guess there are just as many different views on all the "isms" in the US as there are everywhere else.

For the record: I'm an economist and fairly right wing oriented "sosialist". I believe in free markets, but with the restraints described in my previous post. I belive in a public sector that thoroughly govern the private, in order to ensure long term wealth. What we've seen the last year or so, is a result of the efforts of trying to maximize short term profits in mainly US investment banks. That was possible because they weren't under the same regulations as regular banks. Sadly, this have had a huge impact on the world economy.

But I belive that the upside of open economies (read: free trade) to a great extent exceeds the downsides of it. In the long run, free trade will allways ensure more economic growth than the alternative. The US economy will prevail if the right measures are made. But it won't be easy. Mathematically, there's no way that the US economy will remain the world's largest if the deficit on the trade balance isn't reduced. Basically, there's need of more export and less import. This will be one of Obama's greatest headaches, for sure. But I wish him good luck!:thumbup:

 

[Oscar54]

I just can't stand by with the name calling or insinuation that if you disagree with "Conservative" mantra you are unpatriotic or a commie.

Hopefully, Obama will move away from Darwinian Economics, and towards building jobs here in the US.

China, would not be doing so great if the US didn't move its manufacturing jobs over there. We need policies that are going to increase worker wages too, not just executives.

It is a perverse system when the stock market goes up when executive bonuses go up, but it goes down when the worker makes more money.

 

[Smittyboy]

US products are already overpriced! How do you propose we pay the workers more? They already have amazing benefits! I know, I have family who work for harley. Insurance, sick time, family care are all phenomenal! What else can we give these people? I am with you that the VIP's are making WAY too much money! Greed is the downfall of humanity!

 

[Oscar54]

US products are already overpriced! How do you propose we pay the workers more? They already have amazing benefits! I know, I have family who work for harley. Insurance, sick time, family care are all phenomenal! What else can we give these people? I am with you that the VIP's are making WAY too much money! Greed is the downfall of humanity!

The bottom line is this, the economy is in decline because the American Worker is broke! He is broke because of stagnant wages and unfair competition with labor in China and India. It is simple supply and demand. There are billions more people than jobs, so if you are going to globalize labor its value goes to zero.

The American workers has been asked to produce more for less for the last 28 years. They say we are the most productive work force on the planet, but what that really means is we are overworked and underpaid.

So we can argue about who's fault it is, the mortgage disaster, etc., but the bottom line is that the people at the bottom have to have the prospect of making more money in real terms because they are the ones that drive demand, not gazzillionaires. That is why Obama needs to concentrate on good paying jobs with benefits here.

 

[Shafe716]

The bottom line is this, the economy is in decline because the American Worker is broke! He is broke because of stagnant wages and unfair competition with labor in China and India. It is simple supply and demand. There are billions more people than jobs, so if you are going to globalize labor its value goes to zero.

The American workers has been asked to produce more for less for the last 28 years. They say we are the most productive work force on the planet, but what that really means is we are overworked and underpaid.

So we can argue about who's fault it is, the mortgage disaster, etc., but the bottom line is that the people at the bottom have to have the prospect of making more money in real terms because they are the ones that drive demand, not gazzillionaires. That is why Obama needs to concentrate on good paying jobs with benefits here.

I have to disagree with your first 2 paragraphs here. The problem isn't that someone is willing to do the labor cheaper, if you go back in history there's always someone willing to do it cheaper. IMHO the problem is the sense of entitlement that too many people have in this country. You are not guaranteed a job, you are not guaranteed a house, you are not guaranteed anything in this country except that which is written in the constitution and the bill of rights. Everything else you need to go out and get for yourself. Which means getting off our collective a$$es and going and getting it. these people in these other country's are taking our work because they're more efficient, and they work like dogs.... something we don't feel we need to do. the laziness in this country goes farther than just sitting on the couch watching TV it's an epidemic!

 

[Fz6Sa]

(Should probably go under the politics thread, but there are far more activity here)

Both statements turned out to be true

 

[Capo79]

US products are already overpriced! How do you propose we pay the workers more? They already have amazing benefits! I know, I have family who work for harley. Insurance, sick time, family care are all phenomenal! What else can we give these people? I am with you that the VIP's are making WAY too much money! Greed is the downfall of humanity!

Interesting to see that you think your family member has phenomenal benefits... At the moment I'm in paternity leave on the sixth and last week of it. My wife had her maternity leave since 1st of february 2008 until I took over in mid December. In other words, getting a kid here, means either 47 weeks of total leave with 100% salary, or 54 weeks with 80% salary. Six weeks of them are especially for the father. The employer pays you, but gets it refunded by the government.

There's full kindergarden coverage throughout the country, which is great of course. We don't have to worry about not getting a spot. Still, despite that, we don't have to pay more than 200 bucks a month for it.

Furthermore, we have 5 weeks of vacation time every year. Nothing less. People retire at the age of 65 with a pension of 67% of the average income the last few years of work life before retirement (you can of course have your own, private pension plan on the side). We get paid if we should become unemployed, yet the unemployment rate is 2% at the moment. It might go up to 3-4% the next year or so, but still. One might think that people want to get unemployed, but empirically, that's not the case.

One might wonder how a nation can afford this? Well... We pay an income tax of roughly 35-40% (but still have the best purchasing power in the world, maybe except for the Swiss) The more you make, the more you'll likely have to pay. We have a so called pension fund, which is an investment fund governed by the federal reserve. I think the total balance of that now is something like 1500 billion NOK, or 250-300 billion $. That's 50.000 $ for each Norwegian. No more than 4% of the expected returns from the fund each year, will be taken into account to the public expenditure budget. This means that we have a huge reserve that we CAN use if things are going bad.

I really don't see what's wrong with socialism, especially when considering that we can buy all the similar services that US citizens HAVE to pay to survive. But we don't have to. If it's possible for America to adopt only a fraction of this, I'd be happy for you.

All I wish now, is that the weather gets a little warmer:thumbup: