clicky/crunchy noise when accelerating from stop

[zixaq]

I could have sworn I'd posted about this here before, but I can't find the thread and it's bothering me again, so . . .

Yeah, as I let the clutch out accelerating away from a stop, there's this little set of clicks that I haven't been able to figure out. My chain is only a few thousand miles old and is tightened to spec. I've recently serviced the R6 forks, front brakes and steering head bearings. No play in the wheels that would indicate a wheel bearing problem. I've even run this past a very good mechanic and she was stumped, too, after a test ride. The clutch doesn't slip, shifting seems normal and the clutch disengages completely. Front sprocket doesn't appear to be coming loose. I can't replicate it with the bike stationary and I can't make it do the noise jumping to WOT in 2nd (I think? hard to hear).

It's driving me **#&$@#$ nuts.

Someone has suggested replacing the cush drive, but it seems unlikely and those stupid rubber bumpers are kind of expensive for what they are.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I had a sight ticking when moving the bike around (engine off) from the rear wheel area.

Had a new chain on it as well but did NOT replace the rear sprocket as it looked really good.

Replaced ALL rear wheel bearings (which were fine and a PIA to do)

Eventually replaced the rear sprocket (check the front as well as it wears faster-for hooking) which stopped the clicking..


And, have to ask, 2" total up and down play (mid swing arm) chain play?

 

[zixaq]

Yeah, standard 2"ish while on center stand. It doesn't make noise when rolling at all. It's only when I'm riding and coming off a stop light while letting out the clutch.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I gather the chain is WELL LUBED?

Can you mount and record the area where the noise is the worst and post it?

 

[zixaq]

I gather the chain is WELL LUBED?

Can you mount and record the area where the noise is the worst and post it?

I can't really tell for sure where the noise is coming from. If you mean record video/audio, I don't ride with a camera, and the one camera I have laying around has super ****ty audio quality.

Yes, I throw some lube on the chain every couple hundred miles, and I try to give it a good clean every 5-600. In any case, the chain is new (~4k miles?) and lubed and this noise was around with the old chain as well.


Is there any chance this could be a cam chain thing?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Likely not a cam chain. You'd hear it rattling idling too...

Do at your own risk, but I would put the bike on the center stand, sit on the bike, and try to duplicate the noise and narrow it down to where it's coming from...


Just for S&G's, with the bike on the CC, raise the nose with a scissor jack under the header. Then spin the front wheel, see if there's any noise from there...

You may want to pull both wheels and just check the bearings (the one inside in the rear sprocket carrier too), for any abnormalities...

Lastly, try starting out in second gear and see if it'll do it then.. Maybe starting, going downhill slightly would be a tad easier for you..
I'm trying to rule in or out, the engine itself.

 

[zixaq]

Likely not a cam chain. You'd hear it rattling idling too...

Do at your own risk, but I would put the bike on the center stand, sit on the bike, and try to duplicate the noise and narrow it down to where it's coming from...


Just for S&G's, with the bike on the CC, raise the nose with a scissor jack under the header. Then spin the front wheel, see if there's any noise from there...

You may want to pull both wheels and just check the bearings (the one inside in the rear sprocket carrier too), for any abnormalities...

Lastly, try starting out in second gear and see if it'll do it then.. Maybe starting, going downhill slightly would be a tad easier for you..
I'm trying to rule in or out, the engine itself.

I'm afraid I've already checked all those boxes. Some of them twice.

I did notice yesterday that my chain seemed loose, so I tightened it up and it seemed to reduce (not eliminate) the noise. Today the chain is loose again? So that's a new thing . . .

I'll try tightening it again tomorrow, but I honestly don't understand how it could pull loose.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I did notice yesterday that my chain seemed loose, so I tightened it up and it seemed to reduce (not eliminate) the noise. Today the chain is loose again? So that's a new thing . . .

I'll try tightening it again tomorrow, but I honestly don't understand how it could pull loose.

S1 or S2 bike?

With a new chain, it'll obviously stretch some but yours, needing re-adjustment tells me there's a definite issue.

Following that chain of thought, (loose chain again-immediately), everything between the cush assembly, bearing inside the cush, rear wheel bearings, swing arm bushings and checking for ANY PLAY at the output sprocket should be checked again.

If you have NOT readjusted the chain YET, pull back on the rear wheel, then put some tension on the lower run of the chain. We're looking to find something loose/worn, moving around that shouldn't be.. Putting a larger screwdriver in some of these area's can help you find any looseness.. (kinda like checking ball joint wear).

If you want to post some pic's, we might see something your missing...

 

[zixaq]

So I had some time to monkey with it this morning and take a bunch of pictures that I can post later. I'll give it a few days and see if the chain loosens again.

Bike is an S1 (2004)

Chain is ~4000 miles old (replaced the stock at 33,000), sprockets are the originals (37,000 mi) and the sprockets look in good condition. I took some pictures that I can post later.

I removed the rear wheel and triple-checked that all the bits were on in the right order and felt the bearings. It's possible there is a little play in the needle bearing/coller setup on the left side of the wheel (normal?), but the bearings in the sprocket assembly and the right side of the wheel are solid and smooth. The cush drive looks the same as it always has, took some pics. Remounted and re-aligned the wheel, and it actually lines up pretty well using the markings.

Cleaned and re-lubed chain. Gave the bike a wipe down to look for other issues and ran it a bit on the center stand in 1st to listen. No obvious issues other than known scratches/dings and the busted GIVI mount currently held together with zip ties and tape.

It is due for an oil change and tune-up, but I've still got to wait another two weeks to get access to my shop space again, so that'll happen a thousand or so miles late .

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

37,000 miles on the original sprockets??

My $'s on those being your issue, especially the front..

Worn / hooked teeth, not releasing the chain as a new / good sprocket...

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ ++5 granted mine look like new at 27,000 mi, if I replaced the chain I would definitely replace the sprockets!

What products are you using as chain lube and chain cleaner???

Petroleum oil seems to do better than synthetics IMO as far as smooth AND quiet are concerned. I'd drowned that chain in some form of liquid petroleum and see what that does. You can thank me for the mess later! :thumbup: :spank:

 

[zixaq]

Looking at the pictures of the front sprocket, it might be showing some wear. I guess I was expecting something more dramatic like the diagrams in the service manual?

For reference:

I've been using a dupont chain wax with teflon.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That sprocket is worn... Once the plastic "ring" starts wearing away, it's time for a new one..

As for the chain wax, IME, throw that can as far as you can...

.JUNK.. If it was used for any length of time, that's part of your issue.. I've had a chain literally RUST internally using the wax...


I've found Honda's "Pro Honda, High Performance with WHITE GRAPHITE" works extremely well.
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Honda-Chain-White-Graphite/dp/B007XHPUW6

Almost no fling, lasts pretty long. Probably have 6K miles on my current DID chain, one adjustment total so far...


Note:
There is another Pro Honda chain lube with "Moly". I contacted the manufacturer and was told
the graphite is better for street use as the Moly is best for the "track" (lubed much more often).


.

 

[FinalImpact]

Lube the daylights out of it with a real petroleum oil and I bet it gets quiet.

As said, sprocket is worn and should be replaced but my money is lack of quality lubricant. That product needs applied every 200 mi and even then it is inadequate for the task at hand. JM2C...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+1 ^^^, even straight 30wt motor oil on that chain (after cleaning-it's pretty nasty), will help quiet it up..

Between the mileage, lube used, the noises you have, I would be real cautious about throwing that chain thru the engine case..

 

[zixaq]

Thanks for the feedback. The only info in the manual about the sprocket wear is about tooth shape, so I just didn't know to look for anything else.

If I change the sprockets out do I need to change the chain again along with them?

I'll try picking up some different lube tomorrow and see if that helps. The only thing I have here at home is some 10w40 yamalube and the chain wax.


OEM sprockets preferred, or do you guys have a 3rd party favorite?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I like the OEM sprockets. For the mileage you got out of the stock ones, really can't complain...

And depending on the mileage on the chain, you can probably get by with it..

As for the shop pic in the manual, it's exaggerated to give you an idea what to look for.

As for the 10w40, that'll work, just try to ease it on there, maybe a syringe if available (and OFF the rear tire), that alone should help a lot...



My front sprocket was about the same shape as yours, and "whined" a bit (no crunchy)...

Put the new one on, whine gone!!



.

 

[zixaq]

I like the OEM sprockets. For the mileage you got out of the stock ones, really can't complain...

And depending on the mileage on the chain, you can probably get by with it..

As for the shop pic in the manual, it's exaggerated to give you an idea what to look for.

As for the 10w40, that'll work, just try to ease it on there, maybe a syringe if available (and OFF the rear tire), that alone should help a lot...



My front sprocket was about the same shape as yours, and "whined" a bit (no crunchy)...

Put the new one on, whine gone!!



.

Chain is 4k miles in, JT Sprockets X-ring 530.

I'll probably just grab the OEM sprockets and a new lock washer. Does it make sense to replace that nut as well? I remember something about a change to that part in the S1 bikes.

 

[FinalImpact]

Granted engine oil will work it is going to fly off and make a mess. But - it is also going to save that chain by getting lube in under the rollers.

It will be 3 things: free horse power, much less noise, and less vibrations. Not to mention click will stop.

For now, lube with oil and order sprockets.
I grabbed a Sunstar 48t off amazoo... it was cheaper there than most anyone else. Do search here and you'll find the pn... sunstar 48 tooth

 

[zixaq]

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