CanadianFZ6
Member
Simple pole... Just wondering if any of you had cam chain issues... Year, mileage as well?
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Cam chain/tensioner issues.. please chime in
- Thread starter CanadianFZ6
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Cali rider
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75,000+ miles and never any noise or failure. Not sure why others have had issues. Of course, I'm probably one of the very few to have 2 separate coolant pump seal failures...
Ben_H
Junior Member
07 had chain rattle @ about 7k replaced with manual ape chain tensioner
AlexL
Shiny Side Up
Ben, was figuring how tight to make the manual tensioner obvious? Did you pull the timing cover to make sure the timing was lined up?
Ben_H
Junior Member
You can't pull valve cover off to check it has a chain guide on top. Just tightened by hand then turned about a 1/4 turn and locked it sounds perfect
CBRF3RIDER
Junior Member
This is almost exactly what I did when I installed the MCCT on my CBR. However, I believe I backed off a quarter turn. I just posted this in the other thread on this topic lol
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Kenny (Vegas Rider)just had a second crank position sensor failure where the Cam Chain cut through the crank position sensor. He said the CCT and cam chain where replaced this past year. I'm wondering if those delrin/nylon guides needed replacement and is why this happened again....
Edit: Those are some impressive miles John!
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PhotoAl
Junior Member
Replaced tensioner at 9,800 miles. Recently (31,000 miles) had problems so lubed up original and put back in - fixed the problems while I get around to ordering one. Seems like the tensioner does not get much lubrication so winds up somewhat starved for lubrication.
CanadianFZ6
Member
Did you have to TDC the crank first or did you just unbolt it, remove it, lube it then put it back in? Also, what did you use to lube it with?
iSteve
Junior Member
Wonder if CCT failure and type of oil has any relevance.
I have almost 15k miles and never had a problem.
I have almost 15k miles and never had a problem.
abraxas
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130 000 km ... taken it out once, no problems at all.
CanadianFZ6
Member
I would have loved to have created a poll that correlates bikes with CCT failure/issues... comparing that to what you mentioned, including riding habits, mileage, maintenance up keep and other variables against bikes that have had no issues. It would have been a very complex poll no doubt...
vinmansbrew
Junior Member
Canadian, when playing with a tensioner on any bike, you should get things to tdc first, however; I back it off just a bit to make sure I have the chain as slack as possible, then make the adjustment.
Even if you do not back of a bit, always get to tdc to make sure you have the slack in the chain.
It is too bad I do not have CAD experience and the machinery to make my own stuff. I do not like the APE unit either. IMO, these units are so simple that it is unacceptable for them to be screwing up. My cb750 unit is over 30 years old and works perfect, granted the rubber bits are probably needing replacement but that is not a design flaw. That is just natural rubber age.
The unit on my cb uses a string spring. I start the bike and let it idle, then I loosen the set bolt and the spring applies the correct tension, I lock the bolt back down and it is set. I guess the ape manual unit works similar but it introduces the chance of human error into the equation. But, since no one has had failures from it, maybe the unit is pretty easy to set without goofing it up.
I know the idea behind the hydraulic unit is to make it maintenance free but you know. People SHOULD do work on their bikes. I believe a person should know more about their machine than just how to put gas and oil in.
I know I sound like I am maligning the FZ, I am not. I wouldn't have bought one if I felt that way. I am just used to old methods and old bikes and as such, I look at things much differently than those who have ridden more modern bikes. For instance, the CB is a twin shock bike with side exhausts. I know a guy who made his a monoshock with undertail exhaust. Another guy I know converted his twin shocks into a LEAF spring setup. Now, how many here have thought about major mods like that? I know another guy who converted his CB to a dry clutch. These are people making their own parts, not buying them as no company makes things like this.
It's a different mindset with older bikes and I will either learn to suppress it, or you all will get used to it!
Man do I sound old! Is the resident forum weirdo position taken?
Even if you do not back of a bit, always get to tdc to make sure you have the slack in the chain.
It is too bad I do not have CAD experience and the machinery to make my own stuff. I do not like the APE unit either. IMO, these units are so simple that it is unacceptable for them to be screwing up. My cb750 unit is over 30 years old and works perfect, granted the rubber bits are probably needing replacement but that is not a design flaw. That is just natural rubber age.
The unit on my cb uses a string spring. I start the bike and let it idle, then I loosen the set bolt and the spring applies the correct tension, I lock the bolt back down and it is set. I guess the ape manual unit works similar but it introduces the chance of human error into the equation. But, since no one has had failures from it, maybe the unit is pretty easy to set without goofing it up.
I know the idea behind the hydraulic unit is to make it maintenance free but you know. People SHOULD do work on their bikes. I believe a person should know more about their machine than just how to put gas and oil in.
I know I sound like I am maligning the FZ, I am not. I wouldn't have bought one if I felt that way. I am just used to old methods and old bikes and as such, I look at things much differently than those who have ridden more modern bikes. For instance, the CB is a twin shock bike with side exhausts. I know a guy who made his a monoshock with undertail exhaust. Another guy I know converted his twin shocks into a LEAF spring setup. Now, how many here have thought about major mods like that? I know another guy who converted his CB to a dry clutch. These are people making their own parts, not buying them as no company makes things like this.
It's a different mindset with older bikes and I will either learn to suppress it, or you all will get used to it!
Man do I sound old! Is the resident forum weirdo position taken?
AlexL
Shiny Side Up
Not the valve cover. The timing cover on the side. Similar to what they did in the R1 video. I would think you would want to open it up so you can set the engine to TDC. Obviously it is not a necessity though.
Ben_H
Junior Member
Well I did check because I did the r6 cam swap at the same time. And the side cover would only tell you if the crank is tdc not the cams. What i did was set cam and crank to tdc installed manual tensioner by hand and installed valve cover then turned tensioner about 1/4 turn. Worked fine for me 3k later and still runs great and sounds good.
vinmansbrew
Junior Member
If you are at TDC, your valves are all closed. So unless your chain already jumped, doing this is not required.
Ben_H
Junior Member
No all of your valves are not closed. Just cylinder one is
vinmansbrew
Junior Member
We have what 4 valves a cylinder? At tdc, at least 2 valves per cylinder are closed. At tdc, a cylinder is either compressing or jut done blowing out exhaust, this is a mechanical fact of IC engines. Therefore, an engine has a tdc for 1 & 4 and 2 & 3. In otherwords, our engines have 2 tdc settings. You can use either one though tdc for 1/4 is most commonly used it seems. I don't think there is an inline 4 motorcycle engine that deviates from this pattern and the reason for that is to control vibration.
This is also why, when you check valves, you do not need to be uber careful. You set to tdc and check a sequence of valves, then spin 180 degrees and finish the rest of the valves. Sorry Ben but more than just 1 valve is closed. If your piston went to tdc and a valve was not closed, you would be replacing that valve and possibly the piston as well. If a piston is at tdc, ALL valves MUST be closed on that cylinder. The only deviation from this is if the combustion chamber is large enough to allow valves to be open at tdc, I doubt ours do that.
Despite all the advancements, an inline 4 is unchanged from its earliest days when it comes to fundamental operation. The fz engine works the same as the old 1969 cb750 does.
This is also why, when you check valves, you do not need to be uber careful. You set to tdc and check a sequence of valves, then spin 180 degrees and finish the rest of the valves. Sorry Ben but more than just 1 valve is closed. If your piston went to tdc and a valve was not closed, you would be replacing that valve and possibly the piston as well. If a piston is at tdc, ALL valves MUST be closed on that cylinder. The only deviation from this is if the combustion chamber is large enough to allow valves to be open at tdc, I doubt ours do that.
Despite all the advancements, an inline 4 is unchanged from its earliest days when it comes to fundamental operation. The fz engine works the same as the old 1969 cb750 does.
AlexL
Shiny Side Up
Thanks for the history lesson . I think Ben knows that "all" valves are not closed on cylinder 1, that's what he was saying. Not all valves are closed when you see tdc on the crank, but for sure cylinder 1's valves. Back on topic my original point was that the R1 video showed the guys setting the crank (and therefore cylinder 1) to tdc and I wondered if this was necessary in order to not jump teeth on the chain before removing the tensioner. On a car you would be able to see the cam timing as well to line everything up to ensure no teeth were skipped but the fz6's valve cover is a pain to remove if not absolutely necessary. In any case it seems as though as long as you're careful not to turn the engine after removing/replacing the tensioner, no timing issues should arise.
. I think Ben knows that "all" valves are not closed on cylinder 1, that's what he was saying. Not all valves are closed when you see tdc on the crank, but for sure cylinder 1's valves. Back on topic my original point was that the R1 video showed the guys setting the crank (and therefore cylinder 1) to tdc and I wondered if this was necessary in order to not jump teeth on the chain before removing the tensioner. On a car you would be able to see the cam timing as well to line everything up to ensure no teeth were skipped but the fz6's valve cover is a pain to remove if not absolutely necessary. In any case it seems as though as long as you're careful not to turn the engine after removing/replacing the tensioner, no timing issues should arise.vinmansbrew
Junior Member
That could be, I may have jumped the gun some on the "history" lesson. Part of it was to underscore that I know how i4 engines work and why certain things are done.
As for turning the engine, remove the plugs and then it turns with barely any effort. if going through the effort of replacing the tension unit, may as well do this to make it easy and check the plugs while at it.
Sorry if I came across as an asshat Ben, fully not the intention.
On a side not, my tension unit is silver, is this the normal unit?
As for turning the engine, remove the plugs and then it turns with barely any effort. if going through the effort of replacing the tension unit, may as well do this to make it easy and check the plugs while at it.
Sorry if I came across as an asshat Ben, fully not the intention.
On a side not, my tension unit is silver, is this the normal unit?
