California helmetcam: Roadrager stops to slap rider in the helmet

[darius]

Original poster just put out a new vid of what happened before the incident. All seems casual to me.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywcvYkPDswM]Prior Crazy Guy Hits Motorcyclist Road Rage - YouTube[/ame]

Published on May 16, 2013

I know a lot of people have been asking or wondering why I didn't post anything BEFORE meeting the dude. Well that's because the clip you saw was my first encounter with this guy. And to stop all the accusations that I probably pissed him off earlier or something, here's a clip BEFORE I actually met the guy.

I left my house and rode to California Ave. I view myself as a courteous rider and I try to ride as safe as possible.

As you can see towards the end when I first encounter the guy, nothing happened between us. I saw the guy laughing or smiling and pointing at me (I assume he was smiling about the camera as most people do). I gave him a head nod for a "hi" and my friend did as well.

My friend did a small rev, but it was from our friendly "conversation." Something bikers do when people are looking and waving around saying hi to people. It was by no means inferring that we wanted to race. If we wanted to race, we would've rev'd our engines louder and multiple times to try and start something or we could've just told him that we wanted to race or flip him off.

And to all you "tough" guys out there. You deal with it your way and I deal with it my way. I'm not saying which way is better but this is how I handled my situation, there are things I could've done better but we all live and learn. If you want to fight someone, go fight them...your situation, your way, mine situation, my way. Thanks.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Oh and if this would have been in my car with my family. Yeah he would have caught a .357mag to the chest. Done and done. He should have checked himself and just let it go.

.

There is my answer, anyone with a CWP could have escalated to another level, and who would be at fault?

 

[dxh24]

There is my answer, anyone with a CWP could have escalated to another level, and who would be at fault?

What if we turned it around. The guy stops and gets out with a gun in his hand. Wouldn't you rather have one than not If the guy clearly has some raging issues? I would. Maybe you wouldn't but I'd rather not have to be the helpless damsel in distress

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Seems to me having a CWP is all it is. The cards are so stacked against the oridinary citizen to use it, the situation has to be perfect for you to even pull out your weapon, and 110% if you decide to use it. I'm not talking about a homeowner using their firearm against an intruder, but actually use it in a public area. Seems like I read a lot of articles where a person who has a CWP used their weapon and has just ruined both lives, since the general public sides with the person who was shot, and never the shooter.

The guy in the car who walked towards the rider could have had a weapon, a knife, who knows. It was very aggressive move, and if the rider would have pulled out a weapon, I don't have a problem with that, and I would side with the rider, as much as I hate firearms. Isn't that the reason why you have a CWP?

 

[Tagger]

Looks to me the guy on the bike accelerated to gain on the car not letting the guy change lanes.

Why would he want/need to change lanes? it's a straight road ...

 

[FZ09Bandit]

There is my answer, anyone with a CWP could have escalated to another level, and who would be at fault?

Fact is, we don't know the intentions of the person who takes the time to get out of their car and walk over. But I can tell you this. He isn't coming to say "excuse me you cut me off back there" if more people carried. That gives less incentive to start a bunch of nonsense. I would stand by my choice. Pro gun, anti gun whatever. Did anyone read about the Mother's Day shootings? I don't carry to just protect myself or my family. I do I because this nation is getting weak and if I have to sacrifice myself to save one innocent life who probably thinks guns are bad well..... I won't apologize. People are going to do crazy ****. I'm sick of hearing that "we are more evolved and can dispute our differences civilly." Being prior military as some of you can agree. We do what has to be done to protect those around us from those who wish us harm. If I get a life sentence for doing what is right, so be it:

 

[FZ09Bandit]

If it was just the guy attacking me. Yeah no problem. I think that guy handled it pretty well. My comment was about if he would have approached my family like that. There is no what ifs. And 0 room for error.

 

[FIZZER6]

Seems to me having a CWP is all it is. The cards are so stacked against the oridinary citizen to use it, the situation has to be perfect for you to even pull out your weapon, and 110% if you decide to use it. I'm not talking about a homeowner using their firearm against an intruder, but actually use it in a public area. Seems like I read a lot of articles where a person who has a CWP used their weapon and has just ruined both lives, since the general public sides with the person who was shot, and never the shooter.

The guy in the car who walked towards the rider could have had a weapon, a knife, who knows. It was very aggressive move, and if the rider would have pulled out a weapon, I don't have a problem with that, and I would side with the rider, as much as I hate firearms. Isn't that the reason why you have a CWP?

I got my CWP and never plan to have to use my weapon in self defense. In all likelihood I will never use it in self defense and I hope and pray that I never have to. But crazy stuff happens every single day and innocent people die needlessly because no one was armed to defend themselves. You don't buy an insurance policy because you plan to crash or have someone steal your car. It's just that insurance...so is a CWP. It is life insurance in the unlikely event that the unthinkable occurs and you have no other way to prevent death to yourself or family.

School shootings would cease to occur if school personal were allowed to carry. Insane shooters choose schools as targets because they know they have 5-10 minutes before the cops show up and until then no one will be shooting back. The cities with the lowest crime rates are the ones with the LEAST RESTRICTIVE GUN LAWS.

 

[FloppyRunner]

I regret that these threads always turn into gun control debates, but since we’re already there, I’ll offer my two cents…

The problem with analyzing these situations is that it’s always easy to say “see, a firearm would have only escalated the situation” AFTER the fact, because yes, in this case things ended up OK for the most part. Some tough-guy walked away with a swelled ego and somebody got a slap through a helmet.

Or did things end up OK? What else has this hot-head done? Who else does he slap around? What if a responsible gun owner held him at gunpoint until the cops arrived and the guy was put away, or at least had something put on his record? And of course, yes, a firearm could have made things worse given a less responsible gun owner. Maybe there’d be a dead or seriously wounded hot head, maybe a dead or wounded rider, or maybe even a dead or wounded bystander.

I guess from my point of view, I choose to not debate a bunch of theoretical “what-ifs”. The only thing I KNOW is that I trust MYSELF with a firearm, and I’ll always have one to protect myself and my family from these hot-heads.

These guys need to know that there’s no way you can know they aren’t approaching your bike so they can push you off before beating you senseless. Would I have pulled a weapon if I were in the rider’s position? Probably not, because 1) I have yet to carry while riding, and 2) if I was carrying, my personality is pretty much that of a pacifist and I’d probably wait until things escalated further. That may have been that right decision (for me, anyway) in THIS case, but had the hot-head had a different objective, it’s possible I’d have been on the ground and unable to draw before I even knew what was going on.

I don’t really buy the whole “don’t draw unless you plan to shoot” business that some insist on. However, I’m also not going to flash a firearm without having it aimed and ready after feeling physically threatened.

In summary, I don’t really buy that a firearm in the hands of the rider necessarily would have escalated things in a negative way. I do want to say again that his handling of the situation is admirable.

[/ramble]

 

[FIZZER6]

In summary, I don’t really buy that a firearm in the hands of the rider necessarily would have escalated things in a negative way. I do want to say again that his handling of the situation is admirable.

[/ramble]

9 times out of 10. If a would be attacker sees the intended victim draw a gun the attacker runs away as fast as he possibly can and the situation ends. That being the case I would still not draw my weapon until I felt without a doubt that my life was being threatened.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

9 times out of 10. If a would be attacker sees the intended victim draw a gun the attacker runs away as fast as he possibly can and the situation ends. That being the case I would still not draw my weapon until I felt without a doubt that my life was being threatened.

But you just mentioned that if you had your family with you, different story, you would draw?

The point is, if someone were to have a CWP, I think this is a good enough reason to carry one and to draw. It will make people think twice before they go and do something foolish, like getting out of your vehicle and approach another driver in an aggressive manner, and even assault the rider. People are unpredictable, you don't know what they are going to do. I would think that one of the primary reasons you want to carry a firearm so that it can be used as a deterrent so you don't become a victim. Who sais that this driver won't do the same thing again, but maybe he would think twice before he does it again since the thought of someone drawing a weapon or even shooting would come to light.

Fortunately for me, I will never have to make that life ending decision, since I do not own a fire arm and take that scenario out of the equation. I say life ending decision, because the cards are stacked against you, the situation better be perfect because it's either going to be you or him. Him dying or you going to prison for the rest of your life.

 

[BamBam]

I have a CWP and legal use of deadly force is a big topic in the CWP world. What it boils down to in most states is that you cannot brandish your weapon to deter someone. In this case brandishing a weapon without a legitimate threat would have been illegal (someone walking toward you unarmed is not a legitimate threat). On the other hand if he had a crow bar, a knife or a gun in his hand, basically anything that could inflict bodily harm and was advancing aggressively, capping him would have been well without your right.

Personally I would never pull my gun unless I felt 100% sure that person meant to physically harm me or my family because they were armed with a weapon and advancing aggressively. If you pull your weapon you better be planning on using it. Brandishing is a good way to get yourself killed. 9 times out of 10 when a CWP weapon is pulled the attacker flees. Only the dumb ones who truly would have killed you would continue their attack or go for their own gun.

In the unlikely event that you did have to use deadly force to protect yourself chances are you are going into police custody and court over the incident unless the attacker had a large prior record and you have witnesses backing up your legitimate threat claim. BUT...it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Since we have gotten into the CWP debate, I'm throw my two cents in. I agree wholeheartedly with FIZZER6. The situation needs to dictate a draw of a CWP. Most laws regarding CWP require people to retreat if at all possible. A LEO however has NO DUTY to retreat in situations where they are on duty. But even an OFF-DUTY LEO has a duty to retreat if possible. In this situaton there was no threat of imminent death or serious bodily injury and in my opinion did not warrant a draw of a weapon.

An arrest via citation/summons of the car driver, for sure. but nothing more.

And, hats off to the rider for staying calm. Most riders would have reacted in a manner that would have made the situation worse.

 

[FloppyRunner]

In this situaton there was no threat of imminent death or serious bodily injury and in my opinion did not warrant a draw of a weapon.

But "says who" is my question? Maybe the rider is 5'4" and 110 pounds (or not, doesn't REALLY matter in my opinion). A skinhead meathead bro-looking douchebag is marching towards you, obviously pissed off. Couldn't he feel a threat of imminent death or serious bodily injury?

Again, I'm not saying one should or shouldn't pull a weapon in that particular situation, just trying to point out the subjectiveness of that situation.

 

[BamBam]

But "says who" is my question? Maybe the rider is 5'4" and 110 pounds (or not, doesn't REALLY matter in my opinion). A skinhead meathead bro-looking douchebag is marching towards you, obviously pissed off. Couldn't he feel a threat of imminent death or serious bodily injury?

Again, I'm not saying one should or shouldn't pull a weapon in that particular situation, just trying to point out the subjectiveness of that situation.

I agree that it is subjective.

IMO It all comes down to how a person can articulate that threat and what he/she felt was necessary to combat it. And ultimately it comes down to a third party to decide if what he/she did in reaction to a threat was justifiable.

And I'm glad I'm not on the jury to decide that...

 

[pookamatic]

Guys guys guys.... no gun was drawn here. How did this conversation get off poking fun at Public Tool #1?

 

[dxh24]

Guys guys guys.... no gun was drawn here. How did this conversation get off poking fun at Public Tool #1?

Totally agree even though I took the bait.

C'mon guys I come here to talk motorcycles not politics

 

[Neal]

Pull in a gun in that situation is absurd.

The guy walking toward you is clearly unarmed.

You are already wearing a body armed suit with full head protection. Gloves that might as well be brass knuckles if you decided to hit that guy. Not to mention your buddy is right behind you anyways to help you out if something happened.

Secondly, if you shoot that guy just for getting out of his car you are getting charged with first degree murder.


Road Rage leads to deadly shooting | todaysthv.com

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (KTHV) - One man is dead and another faces 1st Degree Murder charges after a case of road rage ends in a shooting.

According to Little Rock Police Spokesperson, Sergeant Cassandra Davis, around 1:30 Saturday afternoon two men driving westbound on Interstate 30 got into some sort of altercation.

The two men exited Interstate 30 onto East 6th Street where one of the men got out of his vehicle and approached the other man who was still in his vehicle. The man in his vehicle shot the approaching man twice, once in the chest and once in the shoulder.

The victim, Arista Aldridge, 45, was taken to a local hospital were he died from his injuries.

The suspect, Chris Schnarr, 28, is charged with one count of First Degree Murder.

 

[Nelly]

pull in a gun in that situation is absurd.

The guy walking toward you is clearly unarmed.

You are already wearing a body armed suit with full head protection. Gloves that might as well be brass knuckles if you decided to hit that guy. Not to mention your buddy is right behind you anyways to help you out if something happened.

Secondly, if you shoot that guy just for getting out of his car you are getting charged with first degree murder.


road rage leads to deadly shooting | todaysthv.com

little rock, ark. (kthv) - one man is dead and another faces 1st degree murder charges after a case of road rage ends in a shooting.

According to little rock police spokesperson, sergeant cassandra davis, around 1:30 saturday afternoon two men driving westbound on interstate 30 got into some sort of altercation.

The two men exited interstate 30 onto east 6th street where one of the men got out of his vehicle and approached the other man who was still in his vehicle. The man in his vehicle shot the approaching man twice, once in the chest and once in the shoulder.

The victim, arista aldridge, 45, was taken to a local hospital were he died from his injuries.

The suspect, chris schnarr, 28, is charged with one count of first degree murder.

omg,.....................

 

[FloppyRunner]

Pull in a gun in that situation is absurd.

The guy walking toward you is clearly unarmed.

You are already wearing a body armed suit with full head protection. Gloves that might as well be brass knuckles if you decided to hit that guy. Not to mention your buddy is right behind you anyways to help you out if something happened.

Secondly, if you shoot that guy just for getting out of his car you are getting charged with first degree murder.

*bangs head on keyboard*

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Pull in a gun in that situation is absurd.

The guy walking toward you is clearly unarmed.

You are already wearing a body armed suit with full head protection. Gloves that might as well be brass knuckles if you decided to hit that guy. Not to mention your buddy is right behind you anyways to help you out if something happened.

Secondly, if you shoot that guy just for getting out of his car you are getting charged with first degree murder.


Road Rage leads to deadly shooting | todaysthv.com

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (KTHV) - One man is dead and another faces 1st Degree Murder charges after a case of road rage ends in a shooting.

According to Little Rock Police Spokesperson, Sergeant Cassandra Davis, around 1:30 Saturday afternoon two men driving westbound on Interstate 30 got into some sort of altercation.

The two men exited Interstate 30 onto East 6th Street where one of the men got out of his vehicle and approached the other man who was still in his vehicle. The man in his vehicle shot the approaching man twice, once in the chest and once in the shoulder.

The victim, Arista Aldridge, 45, was taken to a local hospital were he died from his injuries.

The suspect, Chris Schnarr, 28, is charged with one count of First Degree Murder.

I had to check where you lived after that lol I remember that.

Clearly the guy wasn't armed? So what is the true definition of a concealed weapons permit? I couldn't see what he had in his pockets or what he had tucked in his jeans under his shirt.

Lets he on the side of the guy who thought he was a baddass and decides to attack someone. Just like thieves. It's a chance you take, if you don't know the dangers of taking people's ****. Then don't do it. What he pulled was a criminal act and should have been delt with. What if he started Beating the piss out of you? Sure call the cops. Take them 15 minutes to get there and by that time the perps gone.

I had a cop say "your lucky to be alive now go back to your hotel" after being jumped with bats and damn near mugged a block away from bourban street going to martigras. Is my life that important to take someone else's away from them? Yes because at the end of the day they don't care about you or your family!