Broken Frame Bolt

[TownsendsFJR1300]

This bolt.
I saw this on ebay.
Same issue.
Seller says:
Threads had worn out and needs helicoil.

You won't know until you get that old piece of bolt out.

Should it un-thread out, a heli coil is not necessary.

If the holes is stripped out with no threads, yep your looking at a heli-coil which would be easier to install with the engine partially out (or tilted forward)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Any updates?

Did you fix it or just ride it as is??

 

[fazil]

I fixed it today.
I am not sure if it was a right fix but simple and easiest way was this.
When i look from the hole, i saw that the bolt was not in the center of the frame hole. I used frame hole as a refence to drill. So i drilled the aluminium engine casing a bit also.

I just put a steel pipe that has the same inner diameter with the drill to the bolt hole to drill from center of the bolt.

Then i drilled with 9mm drill. But the old bolt did not come out.
Then i put the new bolt into the hole. (M10 bolt) It caught threats somehow i am not sure. So i put some locktite and torqued it
i guess 8-10 mm threats are holding it now.
And it looks good to me.

I know it sounds rough but it looks like solid to me.

 

[FinalImpact]

Faz, did you get a left had drill bit set? because the bolt sheared vs being striped I'd say movement is present and its not wise to ride it that way.

Also, with a left hand bit, often times they will catch and just back out a broken section without ever pounding in an easy-out. When I drilled out the bolts securing the ignition switch from the triple this weekend the damn things each tightened 1/2 turn in (clockwise) just from drilling.

One of these in a left hand flute would be awesome! Nearly self guiding and I'd order a lefty before paying $200 bucks$

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ OK - I should have read to the end. But my typing started at 9Am and am just now posted.

FAZ, you say the whole didn't line up; I'd highly recommend you loosen ALL engine mounting bolts and allow the the engine to settle and then tighten them as it sounds like the frame could be under stress which could lead to a fracture.

Maybe do so with a little upward pressure from the engines bottom to attempt to center the bolts before tq to spec.

 

[fazil]

I guess aftermarket engine guard (Givi knock offs) is the reason of the change in engine relocation.
It is very minimal like 2mm but may be that loads some tension on the frame.
I loosened the other 2 engine side bolts and torqued them.
I don't know may be i should get rid of the engine guards.
I wish the engine and frame were all wooden parts.
That would be easy to screw all the parts to each other. Nothing to get in trouble

 

[fazil]

Now i have a relocated engine fastening.
After drilling:

 

[fb40dash5]

I wish the engine and frame were all wooden parts.
That would be easy to screw all the parts to each other. Nothing to get in trouble

Yeah, but wood doesn't weld worth a crap!

 

[FinalImpact]

Now i have a relocated engine fastening.
After drilling:

Yikes!!! This is a mono cast frame, there is no reason the frame should not align to the engine. Maybe you bent the engine block?!?!? :don'tknow: :shakehead: << j/k, just don't wanna see your frame fracture.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yikes!!! This is a mono cast frame, there is no reason the frame should not align to the engine. Maybe you bent the engine block?!?!? :don'tknow: :shakehead: << j/k, just don't wanna see your frame fracture.

I suspect, that both the engine gaurd likely pushed the engine forward slightly causing the offset. I doubt it, but if the bolt as loose AND there was enough forward pressure from the gaurd, possibly, it sheared the stock bolt apart... The engine being offset by approx 2mm is alot and the question is, WHY????

If you removed the gaurd and loosened the engine, everything likely would have lined up (maybe with a slight bit of support under the engine too as your working against gravity). Guess its a moot point now.


8-10mm thread depth, (maybe 7/16") is very little (I guess better than nothing) but I seriously doubt it'll hold 40 foot lbs(maybe grabbing the rest of the steel bolt still lodged in the block)..

IMHO, as a member previously posted, if it was my bike, I'd loosen the engine and let the front of the engine drop just enough to clear the frame (after removing the gaurds). Then get whatevers in that hole out, and heli-coil. It'll be stronger that the original hole if centered. BTW, that hole, now offset slightly forward, will weaken that aluminum mount on the engine. Should that break, you now have some much more major issues to deal with..


I'd also modify that gaurd to fit correctly, open the hole, re-weld, something...


Good luck

 

[fazil]

Thanks for all your replies.
It looks like it is too late for a decent fix.
By the way it cathced the new threads very strong.
I don't think it will brake frame on the road.
I'll ride it as is for sometime and then check if any bolt is loose.
May be i can take out engine bars against stress.

I realised that frame hole is 12mm and engine hole is for M10 bolt. (10mm)
So there is 2mm freeplay in the frame hole.
May be that is for vibration.
And may be i am still in between tolerances.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

We're you able to get get 40 ft lbs of torque on the bolt?

If so, your probably ok..

 

[fazil]

I didn't use a torque wrench because i avoid using torque wrench on aluminium threads. But i torqued it by hand carefully against letting off the engine casing.
And it torqued well just as the other two side frame bolts.

 

[MrMattster]

I did have the exact same problem with my bike, broke that bolt off last year.
For starters, I can definitively say don't ride with that bolt broken, I could notice pretty obviously the lack of responsiveness when turning right at slow speed the most. As for repair, you seem to have gotten there ok, the method that "turbid" described is a pretty good way to go (removing bolts and sliding the motor just enough to get access) in my case I made quite a mess out of it and no its not fixed yet...currently the head is sitting in my pickup, I may post more pics explanation later, but in short its waaay past helicoil because I didn't move the motor before trying to drill it out.

On another note I'm pretty sure there was a (plastic or nylon or something) sleeve or something like that to make the 10m bolt snug in the 12m hole.

Matt

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I did have the exact same problem with my bike, broke that bolt off last year.
For starters, I can definitively say don't ride with that bolt broken, I could notice pretty obviously the lack of responsiveness when turning right at slow speed the most. As for repair, you seem to have gotten there ok, the method that "turbid" described is a pretty good way to go (removing bolts and sliding the motor just enough to get access) in my case I made quite a mess out of it and no its not fixed yet...currently the head is sitting in my pickup, I may post more pics explanation later, but in short its waaay past helicoil because I didn't move the motor before trying to drill it out.

On another note I'm pretty sure there was a (plastic or nylon or something) sleeve or something like that to make the 10m bolt snug in the 12m hole.

Matt

An option:

++ TIME-SERT Frequently Asked Questions ++ Time-Sert thread repair questions and answers for


Once the threads are in the block/head, if the frame is drilled out, it wouldn't be difficult to machine out a "sleeved collor" with a flat end to take up the new larger frame hole.

 

[MrMattster]

time-sert..yea..I was a bit past that. I completely disassembled the head and die-ground out the entire mounting area and then had a friend build/weld it back in, cut it off about right and then tapped and drilled a new hole that feels like it was in close to the right place....now my problem is that I think the head gasket is leaking as evidenced by the fluid coming out of the weep hole nearby...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

time-sert..yea..I was a bit past that. I completely disassembled the head and die-ground out the entire mounting area and then had a friend build/weld it back in, cut it off about right and then tapped and drilled a new hole that feels like it was in close to the right place....now my problem is that I think the head gasket is leaking as evidenced by the fluid coming out of the weep hole nearby...

The weep hole is just that, to allow any rain, moisture, etc to drain out from the spark plug valley/holes. If its brown, you may have a loose spark plug and getting some blow by into that valley a seeping out.

Did you pull the head from the engine when welding it up? Any pic's?

 

[fazil]

ime-sert..yea..I was a bit past that. I completely disassembled the head and die-ground out the entire mounting area and then had a friend build/weld it back in, cut it off about right and then tapped and drilled a new hole that feels like it was in close to the right place....now my problem is that I think the head gasket is leaking as evidenced by the fluid coming out of the weep hole nearby...

Any pictures? I guess i'll have to do the same someday or i'll buy a new head. Existing head bolt gets loose every 1000km's.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just a thought, "Chevyfazer", months ago cracked the right side of his frame...(there's a very long thread on it). He unbolted the frame halves at the steering head and other spots and just pulled off the broken right side frame to fix it (which worked out well!).

Point being, instead of dropping the engine, it's apparently doable to remove the left side of the frame to access that messed up hole...


BTW, I would have thunk, (with no pressure on the threads/bolt in the block), it would have come out with an "easy out", penetrate and some smacking with a hammer & punch to loosen the broken piece...