Broken Frame Bolt

[tdbill]

A properly installed heli-coil is very, very strong!

There is a bolt #15 (the same bolt) on the other side, see the diagram and compare the bolt lenths. Torque is 40 ft lbs, clean threads...

Do you have the torque specs for 11 & 13? I'd like to verify all of my engine mounting bolts...

 

[darius]

The frame isn't symmetrical. There is no bolt #15 on the other side to compare it to.

Focus should be on EZ outing the bloody thing.

Correction: Thanks Townsends. There is a bolt #15 on the non-drive side. It is higher up the frame as shown in the first diagram.

 

[Motogiro]

I have a question. Was this a factory bolt? Was it an aftermarket bolt as used on some aftermarket sliders? If the bolt was longer than it should have been, the head would not be able to seat in the frame's counter bore. This would allow the bolt to bottom out in the hole and when torquing the bolt the free upper part of the bolt would be able to be twisted and break where the upper threads exited the engine. This is what the scenario looks like to me. If this is what happened then the bolt should be checked to insure it is the proper length as the new one of the same length will not properly bind the frame to the engine or have any meaningful torque specification.If this is what's happening with this bolt then it never properly bound the frame to the engine.
The next thing would be using the proper grade bolt as a replacement if you are not replacing it with the OEM factory bolt.

This bolt also may have been installed cross threaded which again did not allow the head to seat in the frame counter bore causing the same condition and breakage.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If the bolt were over torqued by a clumsy mechanic it should have snapped off at the head so perhaps it was uneven stress.

As previously suggested, probably good to loosen and retorque the set of them.

My bike has the T-Rex frame sliders and the bolts in the kit replaced #13.

Good luck and top marks for inspecting your ride and catching the problem before it caught you.

Before the bolt stopped moving, If it was seized, the steel bolt wouldn't break at the head, it'd break where there's less mass, by the threads, the shoulder of the bolt is a bit stronger..

If it was over torqued, the bolt would definitly pull the much softer aluminum threads out first. Steel on steel, a much different story...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The frame isn't symmetrical. There is no bolt #15 on the other side to compare it to.

Focus should be on EZ outing the bloody thing.

+1 on getting whats left in engine out.

However, there certainly is a bolt #15 on the other side, either look at your bike or easier yet, the diagram in the FIRST POST (top left of the picture). ALL THREE SHORT, two on the left side, one on the right side (that go thru the "frame arms") are the same, #15

**Point being, to check what he has in his hand to what SHOULD be in the engine. It'll give an idea whats left in the engine block and what needs to come out..

Being the same # on the parts diagram, its the EXACT SAME BOLT used for the engine mount.

Should the easy out not work, it is indeed possible, if very carefull, to drill the remains out JUST TO THE EDGE OF THE THREADS. You can then pick the remaining steel threads out. IMO, this is a last resort as with the frame in the way, trying to reach the remaining theads will be a bi...!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

A properly installed heli-coil is very, very strong!



Do you have the torque specs for 11 & 13? I'd like to verify all of my engine mounting bolts...

Checking the Yamaha shop manuals for both 04-06 and 07-09, ALL the engine mount bolts (including three, #15's), 11 and 13 are 40 foot lbs, with clean and dry threads

For bolts 11 and 13, Yamaha, (in the diagram) wants a little oil applied to the SHANK that goes all the way thru the engine (I believe that to help prevent later seizing, between steel and aluminum) but the nut and threads are dry...

 

[trepetti]

I looked at the hole again this morning and yes it some part of the bolt is there like a cavity.

I measured the bolt and it is 35mm long.

I think 20-30mm of the bolt is at the engine side. I don't know about the alumunium threads but if they are stripped i don't think it is possible to make a helicoil operation because that hole is narrow at the fram and to helicoil it i guess engine should be taken out.

I'll go to a machine shop tomorrow. I'll keep posting.
Thanks for all the replies.

My initial measurement was the entire length, not from the shoulder. I re-measured the bolt form shoulder to end and it is 50mm in length. It looks like there is quite a chunk missing. Sorry to hear.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

My initial measurement was the entire length, not from the shoulder. I re-measured the bolt form shoulder to end and it is 50mm in length. It looks like there is quite a chunk missing. Sorry to hear.

IMO, thats good!!

Better having aluminum threads there, just have to get that remaining bolt out of there..

As noted above, an "easy out", lots of good penetrating oil, and a couple of smacks on the bolt to hopefully loosen it up and get it moving.

 

[fazil]

I have a question. Was this a factory bolt?

It looks like a factory bolt.
Today i went to a biker service and they wanted $200 for the repair.
They told that left part of the frame should be taken out to reach that hole.
I didn't want that. I'll look for a less complicated route.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Any updates?

 

[fazil]

No updates yet. I was very busy this week.
And it is raining.
I bought same size stainless steel bolt, cobalt drill bit, and bolt extractor kit from locak warehouse. I took a sample bolt and tried cobalt drill on.
it drills better than hhs but extractor didn't work. SS bolt is too rough to catch.
I should bring her to a machine shop i guess.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

No updates yet. I was very busy this week.
And it is raining.
I bought same size stainless steel bolt, cobalt drill bit, and bolt extractor kit from locak warehouse. I took a sample bolt and tried cobalt drill on.
it drills better than hhs but extractor didn't work. SS bolt is too rough to catch.
I should bring her to a machine shop i guess.

I just went to my 07 and checked the short, stock engine bolt with a magnet. The magnet does indeed attract to it, (its not a SS bolt)...

Tried the magnet with a known SS bolt, no attraction. Its not the same material you have frozen in the block.

Its your call but that broken bolt in the engine is softer than that SS you practiced on...

Good luck if you try it...

 

[fazil]

Are you sure all stainless steel bolts are not magnetic?

Still didn't touch it.
I looked at the engine and there are 7 bolts that hold the engine.
That broken bolt hole does not exist in the other side of the engine.
(Frame is not symmettricaly attached to the frame)

The ones shown with blue arrows are not dead end holes. They use shaft like bolts.

So it looks still safe to me without the 7th bolt. :spank:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Are you sure all stainless steel bolts are not magnetic?

Still didn't touch it.
I looked at the engine and there are 7 bolts that hold the engine.
That broken bolt hole does not exist in the other side of the engine.
(Frame is not symmettricaly attached to the frame)

The ones shown with blue arrows are not dead end holes. They use shaft like bolts.

So it looks still safe to me without the 7th bolt. :spank:

Yes, you are correct, there are THREE SHORT BOLTS, and the rest are bolt and nut. ALL torque to 40 ft lbs. And yes, the frame is NOT semetrical.

I'll send you both the 04-06 YAMAHA SHOP manual and the 07-09 Yamaha shop manual. I've re-torqued ALL the bolts you have pictured just under regular maintainance.. The stock bolts are NOT SS, nor galvanized, their plated...

Look close at the left side of my 07, there's TWO FRAME ARMS, the right side ONE .

Its a frame mount, apparently Yamaha engineers designed/decided it needed two on the left side. The engine is a stressed member, when bolted to the frame, IT IS PART OF THE FRAME.

Ride it at you own risk, its very possible you'll cause more damage, you will get more vibrations.

 

[turbid]

sorry just saw this thread...

i had a bolt shear in the engine (the one on the lhs - the arm of the frame that goes underneath the thick radiator hose).

ez out works fine, so try that first. to have better leverage, i removed all the bolts that hold the engine and let the engine fall over just enough to clear the arm so i could work more easily. the chain held the engine in tension so that it did not fall, it had enough play to let the engine clear the frame and then hold it in tension. you may have to loosen the rear axle, if the chain does not have enough play.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

sorry just saw this thread...

i had a bolt shear in the engine (the one on the lhs - the arm of the frame that goes underneath the thick radiator hose).

ez out works fine, so try that first. to have better leverage, i removed all the bolts that hold the engine and let the engine fall over just enough to clear the arm so i could work more easily. the chain held the engine in tension so that it did not fall, it had enough play to let the engine clear the frame and then hold it in tension. you may have to loosen the rear axle, if the chain does not have enough play.

Just curious, did you check the torque on the other mounting bolts, were any loose? Even slightly? I've had my "arm" mounts loosen slightly (I was getting a little more vibration and found those bolts at approx 35 ft lbs vs the recommended 40 ft lbs). None broke, probably caught them early enough and all took the 40 ft lbs torque without incident..

Besides the op and yourself I remember seeing another member have the exact same bolt break.. Seems like this may be a definite check when doing regular maintainance...

Thanks for posting the trick re tilting the forward must slightly. GREAT TIP. No issues with FI, wiring, etc doing the "tilt"?

 

[fazil]

Thanks for the great info.
Did you unbolt the headers?
Did you take out the all the bolts or left at least the one below (blue marked bottom bolt)

Did you use helicoil then?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks for the great info.
Did you unbolt the headers?
Did you take out the all the bolts or left at least the one below (blue marked bottom bolt)

Did you use helicoil then?

His post stated he used an "easy out" to remove the broken bolt so the original threads are still there. No need to heli-coil, its a stock, threaded hole!!

 

[fazil]

This bolt.
I saw this on ebay.
Same issue.
Seller says:
Threads had worn out and needs helicoil.

 

[Gelvatron]

Be weary with eBay usually people Lie or don't fully explain the issue it's much different we. You check it out in person