Bike won't start . Diag code 12 and 30

[sparrrowhawk]

Parked my bike in October last year for winter. Took the battery out on Saturday . Charged it up and tried to fire up the bike. It won't start . I tried to start with loose negative connection as I manage to loose the nut .

Charged the battery again and got new nut . Now its properly tied.

Battery voltage charged : 12.85 and voltage drop to 10v while cranking .


Engines cranks but it won't start . I have checked all the fuses . When I turn on ignition i do hear the fuel pump sound so i suppose it's working.

Check Diag and i see code 12 and 30.

Bike was running perfectly fine when i parked it for winter in October .

My personal theory is that i might have snapped some cables or something. I did push tank a bit too High .

Suggestions needed to what i should check .


Thanks guys

 

[azbiza]

see this for code 12
http://www.600riders.com/forum/garage-mechanical-help/40624-error-code-12-a.html

and the rest
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/3131-fault-codes-listed-fz6-service-manual.html

and something to watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdx1cOEWDB4

hope it helps, cheers

 

[FinalImpact]

Hello and welcome to the show [MENTION=25706]sparrrowhawk[/MENTION]!

Thats good info and 10V while cranking is pretty acceptable. My aged battery drops into the low 9.0 and still starts.

As for the codes; it sounds like you pulled them up vs them being displayed? True?

Active codes from present conditions pop up on the display. During the start cycle the ECU is running diagnostics (all the time really) and IF the battery voltage drops too low during cranking it can induce a ghost code that's a product of the system voltage being too low for it to FINISH its diagnostic routine. So think of those as its last words before dying. An incomplete sentence if you will. BUT - don't completely forget about them.

IMO - you're probably OK as the fuel gauge works and the pump primes, so as long as those continue to work lets not get too concerned there.
- Does it have any aftermarket hardware? Fuel controller, Speedo Healer, Gear indicator? And what year is it, how many miles on it?

Just this past weekend I worked on friends FZ that is SOUNDING A LOT LIKE this!
It sat for a cpl months, the battery got weak, it cranks, and it cranks, but it won't fire off. Battery was freshly charged when I arrived Saturday morning and here is how this story goes.
- What can we prove? With a spare spark plug I pulled cap 4 on the RS and verified spark. Oddly, on this 07, the spark is slightly delayed until after the engine is spinning, but the spark was present and consistent blue arc.
- OK so this one has lots of add on goodies. To cut to the chase I used a hose and syringe and stole some of the bikes gas from its own tank. Open the air box lid and give each cylinder about 5cc of fuel. Hit the start button and she fires, revs, and gets all sputtery and dies. But it ran a good 15 - 20 secs. So way longer than the fuel ration I gave it. BUT IT WON'T start on its own!! Gave it more fuel and repeat. Same thing. NOTICE: me adding fuel is another item off the Check list, "What do we know", we know it has fuel!
- I unplugged the FUEL INJECTION wires from the Fuel Controller, connected the OEM ECM straight to the Fuel Injectors and hit the starter. She fires right off on her OWN!
- OK, so now we go through and disconnect EVERY wire harness related to Running the Engine and INSPECT THEM FOR DAMAGE, properly seated, corrosion. Everything looks good. Except one item is suspiciously loose but connected. Power to the aftermarket fuel controller. Reseat that. It locks into place. Connect FC back to injectors.
- She fires right up!

Long story, but I hope you see the progression and can follow it on your own bike. Its like the Text book fault tree. Prove All you can so you know what it isn't. It narrows down what it must be.

PS - bike had original plugs in it on a rich map so they were sooty but not soaked and the fact that adding our own fuel and it ran, say the plugs were not fuel saturated.... Try that path and let us know how it goes! :thumbup:
Oh from first meeting this bike to getting her running again was maybe 15min. Fixing the issue took a bit longer as we had to cut and uncover wire looms and trace wires. Still, that whole process was an hour or less.

 

[sparrrowhawk]

Thanks for replies so far .

This is a 2007 FZ6-N with about 9300 miles. Bike looks good and the 2 years in my ownership it has been faithful without any issue the past 4500 miles .It has had regular service at Yamaha dealership .

I have only replaced the levers but previous owner did install aftermarket exhaust, givi racks (3bags) and some sort of communication system ( i have never used it).

There are no errors codes when u start it up . I found those in Diag .

The fuel is 4 months old and it's parked in warm garage . It was parked like this last year too and it fired up right away after charging battery...


How do i reset the error codes ? D: 62 and hit red kill switch on / off?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Does the fuel over there have ethonol in it?

Here in the states, un-treated/stabilized ethonol fuel goes bad in as quick as a month, nasty, nasty stuff..

Agreed with Randy re checking, etc.

While 10 volts is low, my battery is almost toast and drops to almost 9 volts cranking cold BUT, it hasn't sat for 4 months either. The digital dash goes blank while cranking cold for a moment.

IMO, I would jump the battery to a good, 12 volt battery jumper vehicle- NOT RUNNING, and then try cranking / starting. No throttle as usual on cold start up. The additional amps, cranking speed should help kick it off..

Its very possible with it sitting, the lowish cranking voltage, there's just not enough voltage to fire off the engine (igniton/injectors, etc)

Please post back what you find/fix, etc.

 

[sparrrowhawk]

Allright new update :

I went out to restart the bike . Entered the diag mode and guess what.. No error codes anymore . I have not done anything .Just left it the bike with battery inside.

I have also installed a ctek comfort plug with battery indicator (led lights which tell the state of battery) Now i can charge battery without taking anything out Just plug the ctek charger to the plug installed on the bike.

As of now battery has become low due to serveral attempts. I have rechecked all the electrical plugs under the tank and seat. Nothing seems to be loose.

Our fuel is 95 with 5% etanol .

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Allright new update :

I went out to restart the bike . Entered the diag mode and guess what.. No error codes anymore . I have not done anything .Just left it the bike with battery inside.

I have also installed a ctek comfort plug with battery indicator (led lights which tell the state of battery) Now i can charge battery without taking anything out Just plug the ctek charger to the plug installed on the bike.

As of now battery has become low due to serveral attempts. I have rechecked all the electrical plugs under the tank and seat. Nothing seems to be loose.

Our fuel is 95 with 5% etanol .

When the cranking voltage drops still drops to 10 volts (even after fully charging), (unless the starter, etc is fried, NOT likely), the battery is toast.

As I suggested, jumping from a 12 battery (car/truck, etc) is about the same as putting in a new battery voltage/cranking wise.

*IMO, I would jump it and get it running first before putting in a new battery and potentially putting some serious wear and tear on it (the new battery) trying to get it running*..

I have my "almost toast" battery on a (top of the line) battery charger
( Optimate, TecMate Company World Wide ) and the voltage, FULLY CHARGED, green light, will still drop on cranking. Basically, the battery is just worn out, no charging will save it.. I also have the CTEK 4.3 ( CTEK 0.8 Battery Charger - CTEK Battery Chargers Multi US 4.3 ) , not a bad machine, works as designed.

The ethonol there isn't as concentrated there as it is in most places in the US (10-15% generally) so that's liklely not an issue in your case.. With fuel injection, it's much less of an issue vs a carbed engine..

 

[sparrrowhawk]

I have ordered new Varta battery . Will get it by Thursday.

I think the current battery is the original one from 2007 when bike was delivered.

Fully charged it's about 12.85 and while cranking it will drop to 10 to 10.30 . After one crank it will go back to 12.50- 12.55 when i turn off ignition.

Unfortunately i don't have car battery and its freezing outside for a push start.

Will update you guys after battery replacement

 

[Motogiro]

I have ordered new Varta battery . Will get it by Thursday.

I think the current battery is the original one from 2007 when bike was delivered.

Fully charged it's about 12.85 and while cranking it will drop to 10 to 10.30 . After one crank it will go back to 12.50- 12.55 when i turn off ignition.

Unfortunately i don't have car battery and its freezing outside for a push start.

Will update you guys after battery replacement

As FinalImpact has already stated....Don't discount that you may have a fuel problem. A shot of some ether(hot start) in the intake snorkel might get you going and if it does start you've discovered a fuel problem.

 

[sparrrowhawk]

Got my new Varta YT12B-4/YT12B-BS .

Have put in acid and let it rest for 2 hours. Voltage was 12.70 so but now i will let it charge for 10 hours while i am at work.

Will put in after its fully charged.


If it's still messing around then we gotta start looking at fuel/plugs etc.

 

[sparrrowhawk]

No luck even with new battery. New battery is at 12.95 volt fully charged and it did drop down to 10.28v while cranking . Similar behaviour as the old one.



It was used whole summer 2014 without a single issue. It's parked for winter , battery is taken out and after that it won't start ... Damm weird that ****t can break down without using for 3.5 months. Makes me question Yamaha quality. If i wanted problems i would have bought Triumph or Ducati .

What we know :


* Bike does crank ( starter motor working)
* Battery change and tried with fully charged battery
* No errors in diag
* Fuel pump do make a normal sound at startup
* Tank is about 1/3 full so we have fuel

 

[Motogiro]

No luck even with new battery. New battery is at 12.95 volt fully charged and it did drop down to 10.28v while cranking . Similar behaviour as the old one.



It was used whole summer 2014 without a single issue. It's parked for winter , battery is taken out and after that it won't start ... Damm weird that ****t can break down without using for 3.5 months. Makes me question Yamaha quality. If i wanted problems i would have bought Triumph or Ducati .

What we know :


* Bike does crank ( starter motor working)
* Battery change and tried with fully charged battery
* No errors in diag
* Fuel pump do make a normal sound at startup
* Tank is about 1/3 full so we have fuel

Okay...Take a deep breath.... We have great advice here with a culmination of experience from a lot of people that have been through this. Please listen to what we have to offer. Get some ether (hot start) lift the tank. If you can't spray the ether into the air intake snorkle, remove the top of the airbox and spray the ether into the throttle bodies. Not a lot! It only takes a little spritz and the flash point is very very high so no spark or flame near the ether. Keep your area well ventilated. Try starting it. Sometimes motors in the cold can also get flooded, meaning the cylinders get too much fuel in them and if that's that case you need to open the throttle all the way while you are cranking. If it starts and dies, try it again. If it starts but refuses to stay running you most likely have a fuel delivery problem or bad fuel including water in the fuel. You can get water build up in the fuel from temp change and condensation.

If the ether fails you can go to trouble shoot the spark. When you lift the tank look for straw paper, or other debris. Sometimes rodent take up residence in bikes and have been known to gnaw a wire or hose.

Yamaha builds if not one most reliable bikes, the best most reliable bikes on the planet. If I had to put my life on a bike to get me from point A to Point B it would be a Yamaha. If I had to rely on data and experience for my Yamaha and it was the FZ6, this is the place you will get the friendliest, best help in the world. If you were to look for the most reliable bike in the world the FZ6 would right up at the top of the list. So if it ran when you put it up it will run again.

 

[FinalImpact]

.........................

- What can we prove? With a spare spark plug I pulled cap 4 on the RS and verified spark. Oddly, on this 07, the spark is slightly delayed until after the engine is spinning, but the spark was present and consistent blue arc.
- OK so this one has lots of add on goodies. To cut to the chase I used a hose and syringe and stole some of the bikes gas from its own tank. Open the air box lid and give each cylinder about 5cc of fuel. Hit the start button and she fires, revs, and gets all sputtery and dies. But it ran a good 15 - 20 secs. So way longer than the fuel ration I gave it. BUT IT WON'T start on its own!! Gave it more fuel and repeat. Same thing. NOTICE: me adding fuel is another item off the Check list, "What do we know", we know it has fuel!
- I unplugged the FUEL INJECTION wires from the Fuel Controller, connected the OEM ECM straight to the Fuel Injectors and hit the starter. She fires right off on her OWN!
- OK, so now we go through and disconnect EVERY wire harness related to Running the Engine and INSPECT THEM FOR DAMAGE, properly seated, corrosion. Everything looks good. Except one item is suspiciously loose but connected. Power to the aftermarket fuel controller. Reseat that. It locks into place. Connect FC back to injectors.
- She fires right up!

Long story, but I hope you see the progression and can follow it on your own bike. Its like the Text book fault tree. Prove All you can so you know what it isn't. It narrows down what it must be.

PS - bike had original plugs in it on a rich map so they were sooty but not soaked and the fact that adding our own fuel and it ran, say the plugs were not fuel saturated.... Try that path and let us know how it goes! :thumbup:
Oh from first meeting this bike to getting her running again was maybe 15min. Fixing the issue took a bit longer as we had to cut and uncover wire looms and trace wires. Still, that whole process was an hour or less.

If it was running before it is likely not mechanical. Thus Reading the info above still has value!
Air + Fuel + Spark = running!

With a straw or hose you take gas from some source and drop it into the 4 throttle body inlets (remove air box lid). As stated a FEW CC's in each TB is enough. This solves the fuel crisis. If it still doesn't run, check the spark. Nearly any spark plug will do, it just has to have the screw off cap, a gap less than 0.030 and ground it to the engine block. Hint - HEADER is a Good Source for Ground!

This is just my 2cents but I've seen nuub's wreck engines using starter fluid as you just don't have control of where it goes and how much. As the Compression ratio goes up on these engines, I'd personally rather take the time and use fuel vs ether.

Besides, If its fuel issue, your gonna be under the tank anyway so you may as well go there now.

 

[sparrrowhawk]

Thanks guys.. Appreciate your help .

Update to come when i have time to take it apart.

The bike in question :

Bildr.no

 

[sparrrowhawk]

Solved :


It was spark plugs. Changed them and it started . A bit rough start but after it got warm and burned all the overload fuel due to my 10-15 attempts to start.

Feel like a moron but hey we learn as we live.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Sounds with the replacement of plugs and the no start up, the old ones were fouled/wet.

On rare occassions, the FZ and early FJR's will flood while starting / cranking. WOT (held open) while cranking will usually allow the engine to dry out and start..

Glad you got it fixed, figured it was something simple.. :thumbup:

 

[sparrrowhawk]

You are totally correct. Old plugs were sooted and wet .