Another cam chain issue

[Clay350]

I bought my bike 2 weeks ago with 200 miles. Its an 2009. The first day riding I heard the cam chain. It was unmistakable. I thought it was something bad in the valvetrain until I looked on this forum. The thing is that it will only do it after its been thoroughly warmed up. It also won't do it all the time. Sometimes its non existent even after warmed up. I now have 1000 miles. I have changed the oil to no avail. Im thinking manual tensioner is way to go. Im scared to death of that chain coming off. One thing I was thinking about was going to a heavier oil. Im using synthetic 10W 40 now. Im thinking a heavier oil will hold pressure better for the tensioner when warm? So is manual tensioner an option for this bike? I have serched other threads but didn't find a clear answer?

Clay

 

[Ben_H]

sounds like a cam chain tensioner issue. I switched to manual tensioner it is a lot better.

 

[iSteve]

Are you sure it's the tensioner you're hearing the FZ6 makes a lot of noise. Seems like engine noise comes up every few weeks here.

The clutch gets noisy sometimes also mine seem a little louder when warm.

 

[Clay350]

I feel pretty confident its the cam chain. Everything is pointing to that. Definetely not injectors. Im not an expert on the fz6 but have worked on a lot of different motors. Are the manual tensioners easy to install?

 

[PhotoAl]

200 miles seems way too few for a timing chain issue. You can check the tensioner easily. There is a screw on the top which is used to retract it and two bolts hold it in place - I replaced mine and when I checked the old one it was not smooth in the actuation - my test was to turn the screw to retract and then unwind noting how smooth and linear it felt. Didn't seem too bad but made a difference in the noise.

There are several threads on the tensioner - search for chain tensioner

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Are you sure it's the tensioner you're hearing the FZ6 makes a lot of noise. Seems like engine noise comes up every few weeks here.

The clutch gets noisy sometimes also mine seem a little louder when warm.

I just noticed the clutch on mine making some very slight noise once it got hot going slow (with the lever out)... I was riding slowly, up and down the road in the dark checking the headlight adjustment (new PIAA bulbs). I can't hear the noise with my 3/4 helmet on... Thanks, I was starting to get concerned..

As for the original poster, that tensioner shouldn't be failing with such low miles. If in doubt, a new one is about $60 or so and not terribly hard to change out. Is it under warranty?

 

[Motogiro]

I've posted on this cam noise issue before on our forum.
I used to have an 09 R1 and belong to an R1 forum. There were a few catastrphic engine failures and though claimed as failures from the CCT, I don't know for sure if they were but the CCT that was being used did cause intermittent noise and concern. There was a recall on the CCT but it seemed there were dealers who didn't get the notice. For many people the APE CCT is the answer. Here's an example of an install and adjust on a Honda 600rr HOW TO: Install APE Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT) to get rid of noise, rattle, etc. : Honda CBR 600RR Sportbike Forum : 600RR.Net

Naturally the FZ6 will be easier to get to the CCT. This past year a local (SD) member of this forum was doing this procedure and got the cams out of timing. cranked the motor and kissed the valves. The engine was toast and I never heard back from him. Be sure you have a thorough understanding and don't allow any thing to jump a tooth.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've posted on this cam noise issue before on our forum.
I used to have an 09 R1 and belong to an R1 forum. There were a few catastrphic engine failures and though claimed as failures from the CCT, I don't know for sure if they were but the CCT that was being used did cause intermittent noise and concern. There was a recall on the CCT but it seemed there were dealers who didn't get the notice. For many people the APE CCT is the answer. Here's an example of an install and adjust on a Honda 600rr HOW TO: Install APE Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT) to get rid of noise, rattle, etc. : Honda CBR 600RR Sportbike Forum : 600RR.Net

Naturally the FZ6 will be easier to get to the CCT. This past year a local (SD) member of this forum was doing this procedure and got the cams out of timing. cranked the motor and kissed the valves. The engine was toast and I never heard back from him. Be sure you have a thorough understanding and don't allow any thing to jump a tooth.

The FJR is the same and has had similar problems on occasion. A tooth off will destroy a valve.

Some members have suggested to remove the cam chain cover (same set up as the FZ6) when replacing the tensioner just TO MAKE SURE NOTHING MOVES (jumps a tooth) when swapping out the tensioner and actually hook up a bungee cord (or wire tie) to keep tension on the chain when removing the tensioner.

 

[Kaisersoze]

Saw this on the APE site under the manual tensioners.

"IMPORTANT: WHEN REPLACING ANY HYDRAULIC OEM TENSIONER WITH A MANUAL TENSIONER, IT IS IMPORTANT TO BLOCK OFF THE OIL PASSAGE THAT SUPPLIED THE OEM TENSIONER. FAILURE TO DO SO COULD RESULT IN A LOW OIL PRESSURE SITUATION."

Does this apply to us? And if so, how the heck do we go about blocking that off?

 

[RJ2112]

I bought my bike 2 weeks ago with 200 miles. Its an 2009. The first day riding I heard the cam chain. It was unmistakable. I thought it was something bad in the valvetrain until I looked on this forum. The thing is that it will only do it after its been thoroughly warmed up. It also won't do it all the time. Sometimes its non existent even after warmed up. I now have 1000 miles. I have changed the oil to no avail. Im thinking manual tensioner is way to go. Im scared to death of that chain coming off. One thing I was thinking about was going to a heavier oil. Im using synthetic 10W 40 now. Im thinking a heavier oil will hold pressure better for the tensioner when warm? So is manual tensioner an option for this bike? I have serched other threads but didn't find a clear answer?

Clay

If you are as concerned as you state, why did you buy the bike? Take it to the dealer you bought it from, and get them to log your issue into Yamaha's data base.:thumbup: The reason to do this is to ensure your Warranty will apply, if there is an issue later.

Randomly changing things until you make the noise go away is not going to end well. You are likely to make the noise go away when the engine stops working. If it's obvious you have had your meat hooks in there, the warranty will be void unless you have solid credentials.

As has been stated, 200 miles, 1,000 miles seems like incredibly short mileage to have issues with a cam chain. There's many folk who have gone 20,000 + miles without any issues at all. Quite a number who have done double that without fault.

 

[FinalImpact]

If you are as concerned as you state, why did you buy the bike? Take it to the dealer you bought it from, and get them to log your issue into Yamaha's data base.:thumbup: The reason to do this is to ensure your Warranty will apply, if there is an issue later.

Randomly changing things until you make the noise go away is not going to end well. You are likely to make the noise go away when the engine stops working. If it's obvious you have had your meat hooks in there, the warranty will be void unless you have solid credentials.

As has been stated, 200 miles, 1,000 miles seems like incredibly short mileage to have issues with a cam chain. There's many folk who have gone 20,000 + miles without any issues at all. Quite a number who have done double that without fault.

I'll momentarily play the devils advocate: having said that, coil springs can break at any time. But if it broke it would likely make noise all the time which doesn't seem to be the case here. Anyway - I've seen very expensive valve springs break while new. It happens but I'd suspect that's not the case here.

As for getting it documented before touching a bike under warranty, by all means this is the correct path. :thumbup:


EDIT: You might consider checking the oil pressure and see what it is. Also, change the oil and put a new filter on it. Maybe a bum filter is running in bypass mode. All are unlikely but cheap to do.

 

[FinalImpact]

From the manual:

CHECKING THE TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER
1. Check:
• Timing chain tensioner
Cracks/damage → Replace.
2. Check:
• One-way cam
Rough movement → Replace the timing chain tensioner assembly.
▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼
a. Lightly press the timing chain tensioner rod into the timing chain tensioner housing by hand.

NOTE:
While pressing the timing chain tensioner rod, wind it clockwise with a thin screwdriver “1” until it stops.
b. Remove the screwdriver and slowly release the timing chain tensioner rod.
c. Make sure that the timing chain tensioner rod comes out of the timing chain tensioner housing smoothly. If there is rough movement, replace the timing chain tensioner.


/end paste!

My 2 cents: don't start, rotate, move, or do anything to the crankshaft with the tensioner out. Doing so could allow the cam and crank to be out of time and damage your engine.

 

[Motogiro]

If you are as concerned as you state, why did you buy the bike? Take it to the dealer you bought it from, and get them to log your issue into Yamaha's data base.:thumbup: The reason to do this is to ensure your Warranty will apply, if there is an issue later.

Randomly changing things until you make the noise go away is not going to end well. You are likely to make the noise go away when the engine stops working. If it's obvious you have had your meat hooks in there, the warranty will be void unless you have solid credentials.

As has been stated, 200 miles, 1,000 miles seems like incredibly short mileage to have issues with a cam chain. There's many folk who have gone 20,000 + miles without any issues at all. Quite a number who have done double that without fault.

This is a really good point for a number of reasons. Warranty and data base for recall. Chances are they have had recalls as they did on the earlier 09 R1.
It may even have been the same CCT and they were a bad batch.
Yes! Go to the dealer first!

 

[FinalImpact]

Saw this on the APE site under the manual tensioners.

"IMPORTANT: WHEN REPLACING ANY HYDRAULIC OEM TENSIONER WITH A MANUAL TENSIONER, IT IS IMPORTANT TO BLOCK OFF THE OIL PASSAGE THAT SUPPLIED THE OEM TENSIONER. FAILURE TO DO SO COULD RESULT IN A LOW OIL PRESSURE SITUATION."

Does this apply to us? And if so, how the heck do we go about blocking that off?

Look here: 2007-Service-LIT-11616-20-60.pdf pages 58 - 59, they show oiling paths to these parts:
1. Cylinder head
2. Intake camshaft
3. Exhaust camshaft
4. Crankshaft

It makes no mention of the tensioner being fed by oil, so I'd say this is not applicable.

 

[deeptekkie]

Just out of curiosity, does it quieten down when you pull in your clutch lever?
(I'm not doubting your diagnosis but I know the song of mine changes tremendously when I do this) It did it brand new on my test ride and they told me that most FZ's do this. I've never worried about and had no problems 3500 miles later. Good luck!

 

[PhotoAl]

The tensioner is not hydraulic but rather a large screw with tension from a spring. As you turn the screw it retracts and winds the spring tighter. Simple operation and I could find no indication of an oil passageway for it. Might not hurt to on occasion put a little engine oil on it as I don't know how much is splashed on it from the engine.