America on the road to bankruptcy?

[H3LR4ZR]

It seems we're all upset about banker bonuses and pork barrel spending. What I don't think people realize is the problem is much much bigger. This country is in so much debt, how can we ever repay it?

This website breaks it down much better than I could. But if you do some digging, you will see that the numbers they come up with didn't come out of thin air. This is legit. The US has to come up with (from taxes or cheating people out of social security) about $184,000 per person to cover all of our national debts. That doesn't even include the money people owe on their homes, cars, student loans, and credit cards.

Its time for REAL CHANGE. And that change is financial responsibility and radical change to how our country operates.

http://www.pgpf.org/about/nationaldebt/

Couple of videos that drive the point home.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw1hkEor6sM[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LajuETlDmA[/ame]

Are you scared? You should be.
Printing all of this money spells hyperinflation. Its happening to Zimbabwe now, it will be happening to us soon enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

 

[Wavex]

The world is ending for sure. Soon.

 

[LERecords]

best go for a ride and not think about it...

 

[wrightme43]

Nope the world will not end. It is just not possible to keep spending more money than the government has.

 

[keira]

Nope the world will not end. It is just not possible to keep spending more money than the government has.

Weird, I thought the deficit was something the grew in the last 8 or so years.....if I remember correctly, didn't we have a surplus when the economy was doing well, back in the 90s? Now that it's all sorts of sucky, we should be going bankrupt, the people are going to have to pay, yadda yadda.....

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to downplay this at all - it is very very serious, but the government has always fluctuated from surplus to deficit to surplus to deficit, etc...

 

[H3LR4ZR]

has it ever gotten so bad that we had a secretary of state go to a foreign country (Hilary Clinton in China) begging them to keep financing us?

afaik thats the first time this has happened

Just seems like its way out of control.

 

[wrightme43]

Not a real surplus. The Repubs and Democrats are like to mafia crime familys. They fight each other, but when it comes down to it, they both want the same thing.

 

[Cuba]

The "Clinton" surplus came from the checks and balances of a Republican Congress vetoing the spending programs of a Democratic White House (programs that cost a lot less than those being shoved through congress today), coupled with a period of loose credit, inflating home values, and the invention and rapid expansion of ecommerce. He rode that bubble all the way. Obama is proposing borrowing and spending more money than every previous US president combined. During a major recession.

 

[dark_isz]

The "Clinton" surplus came from the checks and balances of a Republican Congress vetoing the spending programs of a Democratic White House.

So, why didn't the Republicans didn't veto the Regan/Bush era spending, too, or the W Bush era spending? Hrm...seems like they only want "fiscal responsibility" from a Democratic Whitehouse, but when the GOP is in the WH, they spend like drunken sailors!

Veeeeeeery interesting!

 

[reiobard]

so... should we all go back to the barter system?

 

[SovietRobot]

No, but we should abolish the fed(a private corporation), give the power over our money back to the treasurey and congress, and fix or abolish social security. Then if possible, bring back a gold standard.

 

[reiobard]

No, but we should abolish the fed(a private corporation), give the power over our money back to the treasurey and congress, and fix or abolish social security. Then if possible, bring back a gold standard.

I agree, we spend far too much money taking care of problems outside the united states and not nearly enough making sure things are going well here first. we need to slowly pull back all of our resources from all over the world and concentrate them here. Once we start thriving again we can start to expand our reach a bit more again.

 

[Cuba]

So, why didn't the Republicans didn't veto the Regan/Bush era spending, too, or the W Bush era spending? Hrm...seems like they only want "fiscal responsibility" from a Democratic Whitehouse, but when the GOP is in the WH, they spend like drunken sailors!

Veeeeeeery interesting!

No actually I think we (fiscal conservatives) were disgusted with the spending policies of the Bush years and said so about a million times. Your argument (yet again) that Bush did it first, is absurd. Yes Bush spent a lot more than he should have, that much is quite clear. The idea that because of that Obama should now vastly increase these wasteful spending policies is aburd. You argue that Bush was wrong to spend so much, but you have no problem with Obama spending ten times as much? Explain please.

 

[Cuba]

No, but we should abolish the fed(a private corporation), give the power over our money back to the treasurey and congress, and fix or abolish social security. Then if possible, bring back a gold standard.

Giving congress and the treasury more power is the last thing we should do, but you don't have to worry because they are helping themselves quite effectively at the moment.

 

[keira]

Just for the record, I was not playing politics with my original comment, rather I was saying that a capitalist economy (which is what we have here) is, by definition, going to rise and fall. It happens to be falling right now, and it was rising a decade ago. Blame whoever you want, we all played a part.....

 

[SovietRobot]

Giving congress and the treasury more power is the last thing we should do, but you don't have to worry because they are helping themselves quite effectively at the moment.

So you think it's better that our money and debt is in control of a private corporation that has absolutely no oversight, and is the ultimate authority and not even the president can do anything to them?

The treasury department is supposed to be a treasury department, not a money printing department, as that's all they do. Congress is the elected, representative legislative body of the united states. You can bitch and moan all you want about them, but they are the ultimate authority and even they have no control over the FED.

 

[Oscar54]

So, why didn't the Republicans didn't veto the Regan/Bush era spending, too, or the W Bush era spending? Hrm...seems like they only want "fiscal responsibility" from a Democratic Whitehouse, but when the GOP is in the WH, they spend like drunken sailors!

Veeeeeeery interesting!

Republican Apologist with hands over eyes and ears: "Sorry, I can't see that, LA - LA - LA ..."Can't hear what you are saying" LA-LA-LA...."..."Let's go to a Tea Bagging Protest to show we are true Patriots.."

Facts are not facts when they conflict with dogmatic beliefs, they are religated to mear "opinion".

That graph shows proof positive that "Reaganomics and Bushonomics" are frauds designed to bankrupt our goverment so that it cannot provide basic social services anymore besides providing for the national defense and paying interest on the national debt. Thus reducng our government to nothing more than a conduit to take our tax money and give it to private corporations and not come back to us in the form of schools, roads, public utilities, healthcare, accessable courts, police and fire dept's, etc. In the Replican perfect world all these necessities (natural monopolies) of a civilized society would be provided by private companies for profit.

And will people stop putting Glen F'n Beck up as a knowledgable journalist? He is a quintessential charlatan who will do or say anything to make money. He is a total fraud.

 

[wrightme43]

http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/ecology/natdebt.gif

http://www.propublica.org/images/articles/pp_debt_bailout_circles6_081017.gif


So the graph above makes it ok for Obama to make the national debt over 100% of the gross domestic product? Is that what your saying?

I am not even going to get into what oscar has to say, except the daily show is satire and not a great place to get knowledge of current events.

I want all of the s.o.bs tarred and feathers and rode out of town on a rail. Dem/Repub I dont give a crap. The whole bunch are lying, crooked, bastiches that deserve to be shot.

But wait the graph above leaves out any information that might possibly give a idea other than what is wanted.

http://www.qtau.com/contents/20080828-us-gdp-income.htmlhttp://images.google.com/imgres?img...26rlz%3D1T4GGLR_enUS268US269%26sa%3DN%26um%D1

You might take into account oh say 9-11, you might take into account a credit bubble that was put in motion back in the early 90s by BOTH scumsucking lying manipulitive parties, you could maybe add in MORE INFORMATION.


http://frontal-lobe.info/gdp_loss.html


I just want to point out that the policys being persued now are wrong, I dont care who in the hell does them they cant work.

Supporting and condoning embezzelment by wallstreet and banks of taxpayer money is wrong. Its wrong whatever party does it. Obama is presently doing it to the largest amount in history. He is a democrat. If he was a republican it would be just as wrong.

Basicly what I see is willfull blindness to one parties faults and deflection onto the other.

Sorta like when kids get caught coloring on the wall, one always pops off with Billy broke the lamp.
They are all lying scumbags, who are destroying our country, stealing our childrens future, and need to be removed from office.

On the Glen Beck note, every talking head on the TV is is exactly the same way. I mean Mad Money Kramer still has a job.

 

[SovietRobot]

http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/ecology/natdebt.gif

http://www.propublica.org/images/articles/pp_debt_bailout_circles6_081017.gif


So the graph above makes it ok for Obama to make the national debt over 100% of the gross domestic product? Is that what your saying?

I am not even going to get into what oscar has to say, except the daily show is satire and not a great place to get knowledge of current events.

I want all of the s.o.bs tarred and feathers and rode out of town on a rail. Dem/Repub I dont give a crap. The whole bunch are lying, crooked, bastiches that deserve to be shot.

But wait the graph above leaves out any information that might possibly give a idea other than what is wanted.

http://www.qtau.com/contents/20080828-us-gdp-income.htmlhttp://images.google.com/imgres?img...26rlz%3D1T4GGLR_enUS268US269%26sa%3DN%26um%D1

You might take into account oh say 9-11, you might take into account a credit bubble that was put in motion back in the early 90s by BOTH scumsucking lying manipulitive parties, you could maybe add in MORE INFORMATION.


http://frontal-lobe.info/gdp_loss.html


I just want to point out that the policys being persued now are wrong, I dont care who in the hell does them they cant work.

Supporting and condoning embezzelment by wallstreet and banks of taxpayer money is wrong. Its wrong whatever party does it. Obama is presently doing it to the largest amount in history. He is a democrat. If he was a republican it would be just as wrong.

Basicly what I see is willfull blindness to one parties faults and deflection onto the other.

Sorta like when kids get caught coloring on the wall, one always pops off with Billy broke the lamp.
They are all lying scumbags, who are destroying our country, stealing our childrens future, and need to be removed from office.

On the Glen Beck note, every talking head on the TV is is exactly the same way. I mean Mad Money Kramer still has a job.

What about the 3+ trillion dollars spent on the iraq war.
Which had nothing to do with 9/11 by the way. Bush even said that the Iraq war had nothing to do with 9/11 or Osama Bin Laden(who we will never actually catch, which is funny because the man has been on dialysis for the past 20 years), not that I need Bush to say it for me to realize that it's the truth.

So are you trying to say that the credit bubble, and 9/11, are responsible for turning out 7 trillion dollar surplus into a 7 trillion dollar debt?

Face it, the bush administration spent money like paris hilton on a shopping spree.

People(republicans) complain about the 800 billion dollar stimulas bill, which I don't agree with 100% by the way, but I believe that it might be necessary to save our economy, but there's no complaint when we give billions upon billions of dollars to companies like Halliburton, KBR, BWG, etc in no bid contracts over the past 8 years.

Instead of putting blame on whichever party is in power, why don't we put the blame on the people responsible?

 

[Cuba]

Basicly what I see is willfull blindness to one parties faults and deflection onto the other.

Exactly. You notice that not a single person has been willing to answer my question as to why they feel the CURRENT policies are correct. They will instead condemn Bush spending, and in the same sentence praise Obama, for what they just don't know. Bush bad/Obama good just doesn't cut it. Explain why you feel that outrageous increases in spending using borrowed money to use for outrageous pet projects and the creation of temporary jobs is the right course of action. Economists on both sides of the spectrum are screaming that these projections coming from the White House are grossly inaccurate and that this "budget" is completely unsustainable. The financing costs for the "stimulus" bill alone are approximately $100 million a DAY for the next 10 years.

The costs for the war in Iraq are not $3 trillion. Look at the increase in military spending to get a proper sense for it. Our soldiers still get paid, hardware gets purchased, munitions are used, training, facility management, R&D, etc. all take place during peace time. There was never a $7 Trillion dollar surplus, that's just wrong.

So for the 14th time, please explain how these policies will work? Show us a good historical reference for a country printing money to spend it's way out of a recession. Show us how doubling our national debt in 10 years will better our economy. Show us how saddeling every business and every consumer in America with higher taxes and higher energy costs will accelerate our recovery. Please. Perhaps you can do a better job at explaining it than the administration has. And no, "faith" is not an acceptable answer, and neither is "Bush was bad". This is supposed to be an administration that makes decisions based on facts and science, not blind faith, yet they brushed aside what every economist in the country is telling them and ignored the facts, relying on blind faith that gluing a series of universally failed policies together will somehow have the opposite effect. These aren't new policies by any stretch, history shows them to be universal failures, so why the confidense in them? Honestly, why are you confident in these policies? Specifically.