All Obama supporters should watch this:

[DefyInertia]

Everyone/anyone please refrain from flaming each other. This can be discussed in a civil manner. At a minimum, the thread will be closed if the forum rules continue to be violated.

Now carry on, peacefully please. :thumbup:

 

[FZTofer]

Everyone/anyone please refrain from flaming each other. This can be discussed in a civil manner. At a minimum, the thread will be closed if the forum rules continue to be violated.

Now carry on, peacefully please. :thumbup:

Thank you kind sir :thumbup:

remember don't be a :squid:

 

[Tailgate]

To pick Sarah Palin says something about how a McCain presidency would pan out. When asked, Palin couldn't even demonstrate a knowledge of what a VP does. No wonder that her handlers tried to keep her from press interviews. Regarding "redisributing wealth" Look, probably already 70% (or more?) of what government does is "redistribute wealth." Sure, Obama made a reference to it but now Reps are grasping at straws and trying to blow it way out of proportion. And besides, just look at the BUSH administration. We are nationalizing banks, bailing out finance companies, and irresponsible borrowers. What do you call THAT?

 

[TheVmaxrider]

We are nationalizing banks, bailing out finance companies, and irresponsible borrowers. What do you call THAT?[/COLOR]

Done by the Dems in Congress is what I call that............ Sorry, don't point fingers unless you admit that your folks drove the bus off the cliff.

 

[Tailgate]

Done by the Dems in Congress is what I call that............ Sorry, don't point fingers unless you admit that your folks drove the bus off the cliff.

Huh?, bailout done by BOTH parties and strongly URGED by our REPUBLICAN President Bush. Didn't you see/listen to his address to the nation?

 

[blantonator]

That was kind of one of my points though. Bush wanted to give tax breaks to larger companies so that they would have more incentive to keep jobs here.

How about we give tax breaks to companies that create new jobs here in the US? and yes that is part of Obama's plan.

Lowering taxes on the ultra wealthy will not create new jobs and will not trickle down. This is a fact backed by empirical evidence.

The problem with most conservatives is they are just ignorant of the facts; reality has a liberal bias.

Unfortunately the McCain of 2000 isn't running this year, but do yourself a favor and listen to him:
[ame="http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=X2JPbQOHEkY"]YouTube - John McCain On Taxing Rich People[/ame]

The rich should pay more in taxes because they can afford it. I know it sucks, but if you want things like schools and roads and police, it's necessary. Setting taxes to the levels during the Clinton era isn't socialism; it's just a fair deal for Americans.

btw, calling Obama "Barack Hussein" instantly loses you all credibility. He will probably win the election, so get used to the fact now.

 

[TheVmaxrider]

Huh?, bailout done by BOTH parties and strongly URGED by our REPUBLICAN President Bush. Didn't you see/listen to his address to the nation?

Yep, saw everything, agreed with none of it. If you checked the first vote when it failed, it was the Republicans that held it up. It was only after intense pressure by Pelosi and her gang, supported by the MSM (that would be main stream media just in case you are not aware of the acronym) and, unfortunately, their own party, that they caved, much to my disappointment. I, personally am a Libertarian so I never have nor will support the "Buy out". Govt. has no place in business, they screw up whatever they touch.

 

[tom5796]

I totally agree with you that we should completely stop outsourcing jobs to India and production to China.

I'll focus on one point in this thread because I know a lot about it.

With all due respect Flash, this ship has sailed, so to speak. Any attempt to punish corporations hiring non-American employees would be short-sighted and disastrous. "RoW" (Rest of World) revenues for most large corporations are as big, if not larger than their US-driven component. And neither the US nor Europe can claim educational superiority - the last bastion - compared to the emerging markets any more. What does this mean?

Scenarios for the t-shirt market:

1. US imposes punitive action on companies offshoring. Higher taxes, fees etc. for all of their products, sold anywhere on the globe. Chinese company immediately gets more competitive in the global market selling t-shirts directly (for a tech example, take Lenovo or Huawei). US company loses global market share and lays off employees.

2. US imposes punitive action on companies offshoring. Higher taxes, fees etc. Due to the uncompetitive situation they are now in, the US t-shirt company decides to reevaluate its center of operation, i.e. headquarters. Not that hard really. IBM, for instance, already has over 20% of their entire staff in India. Result: T-shirt company lays off most US employees (some sales folks would be OK I guess) and the US loses out on tax revenue for non-US sales.

3. Follow-ons to 1 and 2: US takes kneejerk reaction and stops the importation of foreign goods through high tariffs or flat-out bans. Sales plummet as you will now have to pay $25 for that t-shirt you got last week for $10 at Walmart. Plus higher taxes because the government will need to make up for lost "revenues" from the companies that pulled out and they still will not have decreased government spending.

4. Follow-on to 3: US takes a kneejerk reaction and implements price controls on t-shirts (think this can't happen? We almost did it on gas not too long ago, and "windfall" taxes are the same thing just packaged differently). US t-shirt company can no longer make shirts profitably, having to pay employees the government mandated minimum wage (a price control btw), union mandated benefits, and immediately files for bankruptcy. Government steps in and says we'll take over your operations, injecting money from you know who.... YOU. (you know the fed is now talking to the auto manufacturers about a bailout, right?)

5. In the global environment the US/Gov t-shirt company is now non-competitive and in the US the t-shirts per person drops precipitously due to the high cost. Some keep their t-shirt making jobs for a time but tax revenues plummet, the US can no longer make its debt payments and it collapses, USSR style.

No matter how much it hurts, and I know many people are/will be hurt by it, globalization is inevitable. But if individuals recognize it, and really think about whether they are at risk, and take action (further education, different line of work, moving to Shanghai) we would be much better off than building our own wall, or take the steps to wealth re-distribution. Btw, our current "progressive" tax system is already a redistribution of wealth.

And while I disagree with the OP in terms of singling out people, unfortunately I do agree that we are soon to start down this socialist path. And it will be painful for a long time. The problem with using arguments that single out folks is that it creates animosity for what rightly should be a discussion of framework, course and guiding principles. Hey, maybe something like the Constitution.

-Libertarian :squid:

 

[blantonator]

Yep, saw everything, agreed with none of it. If you checked the first vote when it failed, it was the Republicans that held it up. It was only after intense pressure by Pelosi and her gang, supported by the MSM (that would be main stream media just in case you are not aware of the acronym) and, unfortunately, their own party, that they caved, much to my disappointment. I, personally am a Libertarian so I never have nor will support the \"Buy out\". Govt. has no place in business, they screw up whatever they touch.

when the house repubs shot down the bailout, it was the first time in a long time i respected the republicans. Unfortunately, the dems in Senate added another 100 billion in pork to win over the remaining house. All in all, the house republicans cost us a 100 billion. The congress is pretty disappointing as of late.

 

[blantonator]

And while I disagree with the OP in terms of singling out people, unfortunately I do agree that we are soon to start down this socialist path. And it will be painful for a long time. The problem with using arguments that single out folks is that it creates animosity for what rightly should be a discussion of framework, course and guiding principles. Hey, maybe something like the Constitution.

-Libertarian :squid:

I'm sick of this disdain against socialism. There is nothing inherently wrong with a democratic socialist government. Countries like Sweden have some of the longest life expectancies, and the highest quality of life indexes, even though they pay lots in taxes.

For me, not ever having to worry about how I'm going to pay a medical bill or afford college for myself or kids is more important than buying a new hummer or big screen tv.

 

[Oblisk]

i appolosgise for my pervios message i have changed it to this after reading page 2

 

[FZTofer]

I moved this into the bar where it should of been from the beginning.

FYI... Mods are watching this thread.

I see them in the corner waving the ban stick around :spank:

 

[DefyInertia]

I see them in the corner waving the ban stick around :spank:

Repeatedly mentioning banishment will likely only instigate futher arguments. And thankfully we don't have a "sudden death" policy around here. The thread appears to be back on topic and under control, let's please keep it that way.

 

[tom5796]

For me, not ever having to worry about how I'm going to pay a medical bill or afford college for myself or kids is more important than buying a new hummer or big screen tv.

Perhaps you meant this?

"For me, not ever having to worry about how I'm going to pay a medical bill or afford college for myself or kids is more important than YOU buying a new hummer or big screen tv."

If not, then don't buy the hummer and save the $ yourself. :don'tknow:

 

[FZTofer]

Repeatedly mentioning banishment will likely only instigate futher arguments. And thankfully we don't have a \"sudden death\" policy around here. The thread appears to be back on topic and under control, let's please keep it that way.

No harm intended :thumbup:

 

[D-Mac]

A few observations.....

Anyone who breaks out the "Hussein" in Obama's name cannot be called neutral legitimately. If you want to convince undecided voters this is a bad move at least and racist at worst.

There's nothing wrong with socialism in principle. It's an idea - there is no absolute right or wrong about it (I forgot....there WERE times in the history of this country that one could not claim to be a socialist.....despite the supposed freedom of speech we're supposed to have). Distortions of any political system aren't helpful. The REAL questions is, how can we have such a wealthy country and produce such poorly educated citizens and so many without health care (if the far right is so worried about protecting innocent life, why not start by helping us reduce the INFANT MORTALITY RATE....we're like only ranked 29th in the world in this measure). We should be concerned about these things - socialism or not!

I come to this forum to talk about the FZ6. The fact that the original post was in 'General Discussion' shows a blatant disregard for what this forum is about and should be subject to an immediate :ban:

I suggest everyone who is interested in motorcycles AND a political flame war surf over to advrider.com and visit the 'Jo momma' section.

Carry on.....

 

[DefyInertia]

Perhaps you meant this?

\\\"For me, not ever having to worry about how I'm going to pay a medical bill or afford college for myself or kids is more important than YOU buying a new hummer or big screen tv.\\\"

If not, then don't buy the hummer and save the $ yourself. :don'tknow:

I get what you're saying and agree in pricipal, but you can't deny the fact that medical bills can far exceed what any above average hard-working individual could realistically save for on their own. Taking the extreme downside out of a situation ineveitably requires removing some of the potential upside. Of course you can throw benefits to raise $$$ etc. etc......

 

[bertmoog]

I too come to this forums to talk about FZ6's. If it were it up to me there would be no political talk. BUT it is not. The original post where ever it was posted is of no consequence to you. That is the Admin and Mod staff to worry about. Posting in the \"wrong\" section and or determining weather to ban a member is not your responsibility. That is ours.

I suggest everyone who is interested in motorcycles to forget this thread. Everyone that has a political view and wants to express it please visit Forum-Political tell em' Biker Bill sent ya.

Last warning...

Terribly sorry about the thread category. I looked through the categories but general discussion seemed to be the closest one. This was most certainly NOT intentional.

 

[abacall]

You know, I really wanted to stay out of this. I promised myself no political arguments on this board. But this statement is just plain wrong.

I merely stated that Obama is in all likelyhood trying to drudge up the some sort of \\\\"reparations\\\\" for black people and wants to take my dollar and support someone else with it.

No flaming, I just want to let you know that comments like that really get you a bad rap. Implying that Obama is going to be giving hand-outs to Black people when he becomes president is wrong. So is fear-mongering by repeating his middle name.

The dispersion of wealth in our country is not right. Period. When a basketball player is making 100 times the salary of the average teacher, there is something wrong. Teachers shape the future of our country, wouldn't you want to attract competent people who will work their butts off? And really, for the most part, sports mega-stars don't help out society.
So, what's wrong with taking some of that money and putting it into the school system? Or the roads you ride on? Or other projects that make this a better society to live in? Or is it better to let the CEO of some big corp drive his gas guzzling, polluting, SUV everywhere and just borrow that money from another country?

 

[bertmoog]

I get what you're saying and agree in pricipal, but you can't deny the fact that medical bills can far exceed what any above average hard-working individual could realistically save for on their own. Taking the extreme downside out of a situation ineveitably requires removing some of the potential upside. Of course you can throw benefits to raise $$$ etc. etc......

Defy, you are exactly right. No average income person could ever expect to afford medical care. I believe this is due to the large amount of lawsuits against praticioners (sp?) and pharmaceutical companies over-the-top spending on advertising, etc. Doctors have to pay a percentage of their income toward insurance to protect them. So we're stuck having to pay $300+ toward medical insurance per month.