2008 FZ6 upgrade/ Vibration help

[Ssky0078]

Oh and I also just thought about it. Would it be helpful for you guys trying to help me out if I take pictures of things that I am not sure about, etc?

Maybe the sprocket, chain, rear axle marks, pictures of the different alignment methods, etc?

Thoughts?

And thanks again for all the help and suggestions. It kind of feels like a steep learning curve being a motorcycle rider for ohh only about 10 days, but I love it so far.

 

[FinalImpact]

I read the entire previous thread about this. I decided to go ahead and just replace the plugs with NGK IX iridium ones (coming on 8k miles on factory, I know they can go twice as long but I just got the bike used and want to set my own schedule starting now) and I will check the plug caps then. I should get this done Sunday.

Ok, I kept thinking about it as I was writing this post, I went outside and my giant XXL hands could only reach the first 2 caps pull them to check them without taking the radiator off and I could barely reach the 3rd cap and only twist the lead wire while the cap was still seated, it seemed to not move. From what I could tell the lead wire was fairly snug into the cap and the caps are well seated. I'll give it a more thorough job on Sunday

I also got the string and tape today and going to string the alignment. BTW the guy at the bike shop had another method to quickly check the swingarm distance to axle on each side. He said take a wire coat hanger and straighten it out as best as possible. Put a small zip tie on the end going to the axle and the other end thread through the swing arm pivot. check one side and mark with the zip tie since it can slide closer or farther and then flip and do the other side. I might as well try all the different methods and do a comparison. Sunday will probably be a two to four beer episode with all the trouble shooting. :thumbup:

It only it takes one plug wire to cause issues. Time will tell!

As for the coat hanger/tape measure - I have the same issue with each. If you're measuring fractions of an inch and expecting to "GUESS" where the middle of hole is when each one is different; Good luck comparing each side. i.e. the axle bolt is NOT symmetrical from side to side and neither is the swing arm bolt. So now you need a way to measure from the center easily.

At least the S2 models have the nice square blocks around the axle bolt.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I read the entire previous thread about this. I decided to go ahead and just replace the plugs with NGK IX iridium ones (coming on 8k miles on factory, I know they can go twice as long but I just got the bike used and want to set my own schedule starting now) and I will check the plug caps then. I should get this done Sunday.

Ok, I kept thinking about it as I was writing this post, I went outside and my giant XXL hands could only reach the first 2 caps pull them to check them without taking the radiator off and I could barely reach the 3rd cap and only twist the lead wire while the cap was still seated, it seemed to not move. From what I could tell the lead wire was fairly snug into the cap and the caps are well seated. I'll give it a more thorough job on Sunday

I also got the string and tape today and going to string the alignment. BTW the guy at the bike shop had another method to quickly check the swingarm distance to axle on each side. He said take a wire coat hanger and straighten it out as best as possible. Put a small zip tie on the end going to the axle and the other end thread through the swing arm pivot. check one side and mark with the zip tie since it can slide closer or farther and then flip and do the other side. I might as well try all the different methods and do a comparison. Sunday will probably be a two to four beer episode with all the trouble shooting. :thumbup:

Re the plug swap: You can do the swap without pulling the radiator, just loosen up all the mounting bolts (don't drain it), it'll move enough to get to..Your hands will get scruffed up some but its very doable, mostly if not all, from the right side of the bike...

Unless your hands are super large (mine are pretty big) you can get in there. I was able to get my inch torque wrench in there as well.

As a side note, the caps are likely VERY tight in the valve cover. A little spray silicone/similar and gently rotating on the cap (NOT THE WIRE) will release it. If you have an air compressor, gently blow any crap out of the holes once the cap is removed.

Using a short piece of rubber hose slipped over the new plug end will allow you to get it in the hole without dropping it/screwing up the gap. Don't re-gap the plugs with a regular feeler gauge, a wire type gauge needs to be used but the plugs are pretty close to spec out of the box. (I had one plug was about .001" out so I didn't bother with it)

NGK Iridium plugs, per their web site, DO NOT NEED ANTI-SEIZE on the threads, they have a coating on the threads. A little bit of dilectric grease on the rubber seal will make re-assembly MUCH easier. You should hear/feel the plug wire snap on the plug as well.

Good luck..

 

[Ssky0078]

Re the plug swap:

As a side note, the caps are likely VERY tight in the valve cover. A little spray silicone/similar and gently rotating on the cap (NOT THE WIRE) will release it. If you have an air compressor, gently blow any crap out of the holes once the cap is removed.

The cap in the first 2 came out actually really easily, maybe that is part of the problem (I did push them back down as firm as I could. Unfortunately my hands are a size XXL and reaching into the last 2 plugs is just too tight.

I'm going to do a whole maintenance tomorrow. Oil & Filter, Radiator Flush & Fill, Air Filter, Spark Plugs, and Cable Lubes. I just got the bike used and want to set a new schedule rather than worrying about it (8000 miles).

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The cap in the first 2 came out actually really easily, maybe that is part of the problem (I did push them back down as firm as I could. Unfortunately my hands are a size XXL and reaching into the last 2 plugs is just too tight.

I'm going to do a whole maintenance tomorrow. Oil & Filter, Radiator Flush & Fill, Air Filter, Spark Plugs, and Cable Lubes. I just got the bike used and want to set a new schedule rather than worrying about it (8000 miles).

I don't remember speciffically, but you may try slipping a long thin screwdriver between the edge of the cap and the valve cover and twist(lifting the cap off). Any little brothers, smaller friends, etc that can help with the inner plugs (1&2)?

As stated earlier, dilectric grease on the rubber cap makes install MUCH easier and you will hear the plug cap SNAP ON THE PLUG...

 

[Ssky0078]

I don't remember speciffically, but you may try slipping a long thin screwdriver between the edge of the cap and the valve cover and twist(lifting the cap off). Any little brothers, smaller friends, etc that can help with the inner plugs (1&2)?

As stated earlier, dilectric grease on the rubber cap makes install MUCH easier and you will hear the plug cap SNAP ON THE PLUG...

Luckily my buddy that I ride with offered to let me use his garage and his smaller hands today. I was planning my whole operation WT style in front of the house I'm renting at. I also picked up the dielectric grease yesterday. Thank you:thumbup:

 

[Ssky0078]

Ok, so the update:

Air Filter - Replaced the K&N Air Filter that the previous owner hand installed with a OEM filter that I already had picked up. I'm going to keep the K&N stored so that when I need to replace the OEM filter I can compare the 2. The old filter was filthy Dark Red/Black.

Spark Plugs -
Replaced old plugs that had looked worse than Final Impacts plugs at 15,000 when mine only had 8000. My ring around was beyond a dark amber toward black and uneven on cyclinder 2.
http://www.600riders.com/forum/gara...when-doing-spark-plug-changes.html#post506246
During replacement the torque wrench I had just purchased crapped itself (couldn't adjust setting) and I felt a pop while tightening. I pulled the plug and all the threads were good. Could I have busted a thread inside the bike? . I forgot to put dielectric grease on plug 1 and 2 but I felt the cap and plugs secure (clicked down) and 3 and 4 were a lot easier with the dielectric grease. Also I checked the plug caps that the wire was snug and unable to rotate (2 of them (2 &3) seemed to tighten up a little).

Oil & Filter Change
Ok, this was a trip. I drained the oil and it came out black as night. It is the darkest oil I have ever seen (only seen a cars before) coming out of an engine. Pulled the filter and it was a K&N KN204 (does anyone know if this is a steel reusable, it seems the inside looked to be steel/aluminum?) I ran about 200 mL of the new oil through to flush out some more black crap. Put on a new OEM filter and Yamalube Semi-Syn 10w50 High performance oil. Filled 'er up as suggested on the youtube video I had posted before and got to about 1/16th of an inch below the perfect full line. I am thinking about running only about 1000 miles and just flushing the oil again because of how black it was. Thoughts on this anyone???

Lubed the clutch cable
I used a clutch cable lube device and Protect All brand Cable Life. I was not able to get the fluid to drain out the bottom of the cable (is this a problem, did I fail in some way, or do I need to remove the little rubber grommet that is at the bottom end of the cable?). I'm not very happy with the factory clutch levers, has anyone installed "shorty's", what do you think? I followed this video for lubing the cable
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4n_aZ-X-E]How to - Lube your motorcycle clutch cable. - YouTube[/ame]

Installed Delrin Frame Sliders
This was easy enough, but again with the failure of the torque wrench I am going to have to figure out how to make sure they are all the way torque'd down. Also I believe the cheapy sliders ($15) I got said something about not torquei'in too much other wise it will rip through the plastic. I know this is not going to help my vibration issue and if anything make it worse. But I already screwed up taking the bike off the center stand and it got away from me and I set the right side down into a concrete wall worst damage was to top of windshield has 1/2" strip of scrape 3/4 the way accross (thank god I already ordered my MRA Vario Touring screen). (note to self only take off center stand by sitting on the bike) I'm probably going to save up for the sexy Puig Pro frame sliders Puig PRO Frame Sliders Yamaha FZ6 Fazer S2 04-10 from SportbikeTrackGear.com. They look like they can be torque'd down a lot better.

String alignment
I honestly got too tired and ran out of daylight. Noob mechanic skills equals wasted time.

Final Result
The bike sounds a lot smoother. The only troubling thing is the idle after warm likes to drop down and stick right at 1000 mabye 950 RPM. Also at idle there was something to it that reminded me of a car that the timing wasn't just quite perfect. Both my friend and I thought the sound was less harsh overall. Checking the vibration while revving up to 4000, 6000 and 8000 rpm while still on the center stand the vibration in the handlebars was maybe 10% reduced (enough to notice, not enough to be impressed). On the road the engine felt a little smoother (less lag in accelration during low rpm), the transmission seemed to work smoother (not sticking while down shifting or clunking as much changing gears), but I still got the dang vibration at 6000 RPM on up. Too be honest I bought Castle Streetwear Axis gloves, they are a gel pad palm and those had already cut down the vibration 20-25 percent (at least my hands don't go numb). After all the work today and the gloves I would say in total I am only 30ish% reduced in vibrtaion from when I first got the bike.

Next Step
I need to return the torque wrench I got for a new one and check all the torques. I will try to get to the string alignment tomorrow, that should only take 15-20 minutes I hope. Also I may look into the throttle sync as suggested

A throttle sync at idle and re-adjusting the syn at about 4,000 RPM helped alot getting rid of approx 80% of it. The closer you get it, the smoother the engine will be. Spec's call to keep them 1within 10mm of each other, I have mine within 2MM's. Also, check your engine mounts, that their torqued to spec...

No wonder some dude wrote a book called Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Thanks again for all the positive suggestions and support.

 

[Ssky0078]

A throttle sync at idle and re-adjusting the syn at about 4,000 RPM helped alot getting rid of approx 80% of it. The closer you get it, the smoother the engine will be. Spec's call to keep them within 10mm of each other, I have mine within 2MM's. Also, check your engine mounts, that their torqued to spec...

I was going to ask where did you find how to do this? And is this a job that I would be better sending to the dealership and not putting my noob hands in the mix?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I was going to ask where did you find how to do this? And is this a job that I would be better sending to the dealership and not putting my noob hands in the mix?

Most dealerships won't go to the trouble of getting the TB's that close (they'll get it with the spec's, 10mm) much less checking it again at 4,000 RPM's as its not in the shop manual.

With all you did, you can easily sync the TB's yourself and it would definitly be cheaper to buy the tool (about $100.00 vs paying a dealership $125.00+.
The unit I purchased and use is a Morgan Carbtune ( www.carbtune.com ). No liquids, high quaility,very easy to hook up and fine tune adjust.. I've synced many of my customers bikes, it's payed for itself many times over and the customer gets to see what it was previously and what it is now(the shop won't let you see what they do). The FZ has a block, (see below picture) just below the three large rubber hoses. Once the Carbtune is hooked up to the four vacuum lines, two on the outside edge of the engine adjacent to the frame, crank up the bike. #1 cylinder(left most cylinder is the base) adjust at the block the other 3 cylinders.. Should you need the shop manual, PM me, it shows which screw goes to which cylinder.

As for checking at 4K RPM's, when I got the bike, it had a typical inline 4 buzz at about 4K that was extremly annoying. I just about sold the bike it was that annoying. Bought the tool, checkd the sync, it was out a little and adjusted. Helped some but still had the 4 k buzz... Lifted the tank again for S &G's, hooked up the carbtune and checked the sync at 4,000 RPM's. The #4 cylinder was not pulling as hard as the rest (the cyllinder on the tool was much higher than the rest) and adjusted it down. At idle, it was still well within spec. Just kept fine tuning it getting it as close as possible at idle and 4k. Got rid of approx 80% of my 4k buzz...

When syncing, especially fine tuning, I strongly recommend putting the largest fan you can find at the front of the engine as the engine needs to be to temp.

*As noted above, the block where you do the adjustment adjusts sync at the lower RPM's (up to approx 4k, once the throttles open further than that, doesn't make much if any difference). On the FZ, like my 150 HP, Yamaha 4 stroke, FI, outboard engine, the engine uses TWO throttle bodies Two butterflys in each. You can see the adjusting screw inbetween the TB's in the picture. Its set from the factory and SHOULD NOT BE TOUCHED... Somewhat related-when I paid a Yamaha dealer to sync my FJR, they adjusted one of those screws (again a NO NO). (and I'm paying them to screw up my bike!). I know this as when I checked under the tank, Yamaha, at the factory, puts a small dab of white paint on the adjuster screw/spring. Mine was turned approx 1/4 turn. The FJR is considerably more difficult than the FZ to get to the adjuster air screws. Once I had the Carbtune, I put the screw back to stock and re-adjusted the sync per the manual.

The K&N oil filter isn't re-usable. The K&P, which I use is: Custom Oil Filters - Reusable Oil Filters - Cleanable Oil Filters - Green Oil Filters

As for changing the oil again, if it was that dirty, IMHO, I'd change it again (with a filter) if you plan on keeping the bike.

I have my idle set at 1,000 RPM's hot (below the recommended 1,300) so you may want to raise it. The charging system is NOT charging at 1,000 (at least with the dual headlight mod) and is running off the battery. At 1300, 1350, mine is charging just above the battery, about 13 volts...

Pay attention to the engine on the first hard run, I hope you didn't strip out the aluminum spark plug hole.... You'll know it if the plug blows out of the head..

(Picture below compliments from another member's post)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Also, re the clutch cable.

The lube tends to collect on the lower end of the cable, just above the gear box on the engine. In time, if there's a fair amount it WILL SEEP OUT and you'll be looking for an oil leak... (been there, done that)..

What I do is lube it and fold up a piece of paper towel to about 3" x 6" and tuck it underneath the cable (where it curves to the lowest point) and just leave it there.. It'll soak up any lube.

A little masking tape holds it together, a thin long screwdriver helps get it exactly where you want it.

It won't burn up or catch fire and isn't noticable unless your looking for it.. You can remove it after a bit if you want once its done soaking up what ever seeps out.. I just leave mine in there unless I'm washing the bike..

 

[Ssky0078]

Thank you TownsendsFJR1300. I'm going to order a Carbtune at the end of the week. I need to get this taken care of as best as possible, my hands after going about 400 miles this weekend feel like Clay from Sons of Anarchy and I'm only 34 and riding a motorcycle for 2 weeks. I want to eventually get to where I can take cross country trips on my Fz6.

I think this will help as I noted after the work done yesterday the engine at idle sounds like a car that is just slightly out of tune. It's about every 0.9-1.2 seconds, the engine drops down like it's not firing well enough.

I really hope I didn't strip the thread, I had pulled the plug and inspected it, threaded it back in smoothly and it seemed to be snug.

I think you're right about switching the oil out again, I mean $55 bucks to save the engine from excessive wear. Seems worth it as I want to ride the **** out of my bike.

​

 

[Ssky0078]

Ok, I'm a little scared guys.

So, when I changed the spark plugs the torque wrench I had just bought decided to crap out and I felt something give, the plug seemed to keep threading in and out so I thought it was fine.

Well I just got home from a short little ride and when I shut the engine off i heard a rattling around noise like the way a popcorn kernel that didn't pop rattles around when you turn the popcorn maker off.

Did I break my bike already? What should I do?

 

[FinalImpact]

M

Pay attention to the engine on the first hard run, I hope you didn't strip out the aluminum spark plug hole.... You'll know it if the plug blows out of the head..

(Picture below compliments from another member's post)

I know who! ^^ lol

I wonder if the "SNAP" was the porcelain cracking??? Did you inspect the plug for for cracks when it was out?

Also - Please dump the oil soon as there is NO need for 10-50 wt unless its the 150 F where you live. Per the manual 10 - 30 is good up to 100F. 10-50 can reduce the life of your engine during cold start warm up.

You'll want to make sure it meets these guidelines which is motorcycle specific for the most part. . . API service SG type or higher, JASO standard MA

Engine oil quantity:
With oil filter cartridge replacement:
2.80 L (2.96 US qt) (2.46 Imp.qt)

Without oil filter cartridge replacement:
2.50 L (2.64 US qt) (2.20 Imp.qt)

I wonder if its worthwhile to check the boots below the throttle body (TB) and confirm there are no air leaks? You need a very long 3mm hex Allen driver (8 to 10") for the socket caps attaching the throttle bodies to the intake. There are 4 clamps nestled below the TBs and they have a positive stop so they really can't be over-tightened. Just make them good and snug. This would be WISE TO DO BEFORE A SYNC!!! Use a 4mm for the air box to the TB but these aren't as important as the ones below!

These are the TB's: Look under them for the clamps.

Lastly - fuel injector cleaner. Scott and I both have our fav and that's Chevron Techron. A black bottle added 4 times a year or so. But my question is - what is the longest this bike has sat that you know of? When the tank is near empty, does it show any signs of rust inside the fuel tank?

Make sure that plug is not cracked and don't hang on too tight if the vibes make your hands numb. Float them and let your body do the work!

haha - you all thought I was done! lol - - if you have a volt meter, get a battery voltage reading at idle and at 4 and 6000 RPM. just for S & Gs. . .

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+1 on a possible craked spark plug porcelin. The plug is very deep in the hole, I uspect it would be hard to get a socket on it crooked and break it but hopefully its it.

I think at the very least, you need to get to that plug in question again with a socket. Put a little clockwise tension on it and see if its tight or just spins. HOPEFULLY ITs TIGHT. If it is tight, pull it and check the porcelin..

If the plug does indeed spin freely, and the spark plug threads are fine, unfortunatly your head is stripped... , Definitly not good... If you have a small mirror (I use a door mirror of a 69 Camaro) and strong flashlight and can peek down the hole, you should be able to see the threads (or lack of)..

Spark plug holes can be fixed but are much easier to repair with the head off the bike. The FZ' plug is so deep. I'm sure if the repair is needed, you could pull off everything above the head (leave the head attached to the engine). I'd be looking if any machine shop can repair that hole WITHOUT PULLING THE HEAD and GETTING machine SHAVINGS into the cylinder...

They may be able to put an insert in the head while installed, that is keeping the piston close to TDC and the exhaust valves open to blow any machining debris out... Its still possible to get a small piece of debis left behind which WILL DESTROY THE CYLINDER upon start up...

I believe the head can come off without pulling the engine, but that too is a pretty big job.... IMHO, if the hole is stripped, I'd probably go this route..

I wish you good luck... Please post what you come up with

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So is it a three or four cylinder engine now???

 

[Ssky0078]

So is it a three or four cylinder engine now???

It is in the shop waiting for the insurance adjuster. I'm hoping she gets totalled out and if not then they better fix her back to brand new. She was running ok, but at 8000plus RPM i was getting a bad vibration. I was going to get back underneath and pull the plugs again but I crashed instead, LOL.

I'm kind of annoyed looking for a bike again. My bike was so perfect and clean. It was the nicest Fz6 I'd seen in person in black and only David323's blue Fz6 was comparable.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It is in the shop waiting for the insurance adjuster. I'm hoping she gets totalled out and if not then they better fix her back to brand new. She was running ok, but at 8000plus RPM i was getting a bad vibration. I was going to get back underneath and pull the plugs again but I crashed instead, LOL.

I'm kind of annoyed looking for a bike again. My bike was so perfect and clean. It was the nicest Fz6 I'd seen in person in black and only David323's blue Fz6 was comparable.

Glad your ok but I think its probably a blessing in disguise. I suspect that spark plug hole was toast and very expensive to fix.

You'll find another clean bike...:thumbup: Good luck and please post what happens...

 

[Ssky0078]

Glad your ok but I think its probably a blessing in disguise. I suspect that spark plug hole was toast and very expensive to fix.

Glad your ok, you'll find another clean bike...:thumbup: Good luck and please post what happens...

As for the plug I think I forgot to post that I took it to the shop and had the head mechanic check it out. Bike sounded good and he thought that the "crunch or give" I had felt was the crush ring setting or maybe I was off a thread and it jumped one. I guess after the crush ring gives you still have a 1/4 to 1/2 turn where it will be easier then tighten up again. I think that is what I did.

And the popcorn machine noise I got to recreate 1 time. After a long ride and I got back the engine was hot 215 ish. I used the engine kill switch and the fan kept going when I turned off key the fan blade was winding down and making the noise. I rechecked the tightness on the radiator bolts and nudged it around a little so the noise never came back.

The vibes were still just as bad, that is why I was in the process of ordering the carbtune before the wreck. I'm still going to get it, because I've talked to 2 people already that were interested in using the tool as well and may even throw some cash my way if it fixes up their bikes.

 

[motojoe122]

If you are interested, there is a thread in the "how-to" section on how to build your own manometer. Much cheaper way to go.
Here is the one I built....