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Rider Safety

  • Thread starter Thread starter HavBlue
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HavBlue

According to the Mary Peters, an avid motorcyclist and the U.S. Secretary of Transportation, in the last 10 years the number of motorcycle deaths has increased 125% and in terms of the riders over age 50, 300%. In 2006, the latest figures showed there were 4,800 motorcycle related deaths. Of these, 42% were not wearing a helmet. Currently, there are only 20 states that have helmet laws for riders of all ages. Louisiana, which is one of the twenty is considering a repeal of its current helmet regulation. Proponents of the change say the decision to wear a helmet is a matter of personal freedom.

When I read the article associated with the above I was in disbelief. We force folks to take drivers education to drive a car, truck, 18 wheeler and so on. We force folks to get instruction before they can fly a plane. We force folks to wear a seat belt while in a car and there are even laws regulating the height and weight a child must be before they can be out of a special seat while traveling in a car or truck. That said, why is it so difficult to understand rider safety classes are clearly needed as is a national helmet law. If wearing a helmet is a personal freedom that follows with choice then why pray tell is wearing a seat belt not the same freedom of choice.

If folks want to bring down the deaths associated with riding a motorcycle in these United States they must first write laws that make sense and the first two should be mandatory rider education as well as helmet use. This is as they say, a no brainer...
 
I'm in CA where there's a helmet law, so I've always worn one. Seems the most natural thing in the world. But last week I was in FL and saw all kinds of people riding around without helmets. My eyes nearly popped out. It was such an alien sight for me.

I used to not wear a helmet riding a bicycle until I moved to Australia for a year and there was a bicycle helmet law, so I got in the habit. Returning to the US, I continued to wear it. After wearing it for a while, not wearing it would feel like going to work without my clothes. Same for the motorcycle.

I guess I'm lucky to have been introduced to motorcycling during a time that there was a helmet law. Never gave me a chance to experiece what it would be like to ride without. Don't even want to know - best not to be tempted in the first place.

I also agree that there should be a national helmet law. The "personal choice" argument is trumped by the cost the society bears for the injury that could be prevented.
 
Helmets are mandatory in the UK as well. Yesterday, I rode my TM without a helmet for about 200M on the side road by my out-laws' house to blow out some water and get it on the trailer. It was the most uncomfortable thing I've felt in a while. I couldn't imagine actually riding it on a 'real' road without one.
 
Havn't the number of riders on the road increased roughly the same amount over the same period of time? Baby boomers crashing HDs with no helmet on does not really surprise me.

Rider education is paramount. We witness the benefits a little information can provide on these forums all the time.

Where does AMA stand on all this?
 
Havn't the number of riders on the road increased roughly the same amount over the same period of time? Baby boomers crashing HDs with no helmet on does not really surprise me.

Rider education is paramount. We witness the benefits a little information can provide on these forums all the time.

Where does AMA stand on all this?

The AMA has always promoted the use of helmets but maintains it should be a voluntary choice. I disagree and strongly oppose their position.

AMA Position Statements: Voluntary Helmet Use
 
I am in agreement with Charlie. I live in a no-helmet state (18 and over) and still wear one every day. I've stated before, I am in the extreme minority here as 80+ % of the riders I see daily are without a helmet.

As Charlie said... this is a no-brainer. Even left as personal choice, it should be the ONLY choice. As riders, we have little protection anyway so take what you can and be prepared for the next accident.
 
I’m sure this has been beaten to death, and I can’t add anything that hasn’t been said before. Also, like religion and politics, I don't expect to convince anyone holding other views, but I’ll jump in anyway.

First off, the only reason that there is a nationwide seatbelt law is because the insurance industry lobbied the federal government to blackmail the states to either pass seatbelt laws or lose their federal highway funds. If there were as many bikes on the road as cars, I’m sure that our insurance friends would pressure the feds for helmet laws. Basically, just a money issue.

But this is not the main issue, of course. The main issue is, who is responsible for your well-being, you or the State? I believe that you are primarily responsible for your own well-being. However, in certain cases, the stakes are high enough or there are other factors which justify having the State override the individual’s right to self-determination. For example, I see no problem with laws requiring child-restraints or seatbelt laws for minors in automobiles. This might appear to conflict with parents’ rights, but in actuality parents do not have the right to endanger their children, and if they are too ignorant to protect their children properly, then the State must step in. This does not interfere with the childrens’ rights, as they do not have freedom of choice until they become adults. In my opinion, there must be very compelling reasons for the State to step in and enforce its judgment over yours. The “cost to society” argument is often put forth as justification, generally stated as all or some combination of medical costs, long term care costs, or cost of the lost contribution to society that the injured/killed person would have otherwise made. Sounds reasonable, except since when does “society” have a right to my services? If I have no medical insurance and society chooses to care for me after I hurt myself, does that give society the right to dictate my behavior? If I have insurance, and by using that insurance for care after an accident I increase medical costs for society in general, does that give society the right to dictate my behavior? If you answer “yes” to any of these questions, who gets to decide which behaviors are acceptable? To you, it is reasonable to require motorcyclists to wear helmets. To the non-motorcycling majority, it would make more sense to ban motorcycles altogether. They really serve no use that could not be served by an automobile. If you play the gas-mileage card, I’ll just say that a) is the difference between 20 mpg and 40 mpg worth the cost to society of all of the unnecessary motorcycle deaths and injuries and b) a large percentage of motorcycle riding is non-essential travel anyway. Like it or not, you cannot legislate intelligence or responsibility. Unless some behavior is likely to lead to harm to someone else, society really has no right to exert any control. We do all live in a society in which we all depend on one another, but again, this does not give society the right to dictate individual behavior. I won’t claim a “slippery slope” argument or argue that it is inevitable, but if you believe that the societal costs justify helmet and/or seatbelt laws, then it would be logically consistent for the State (acting on behalf of society) to: ban alcohol – the negative health and other consequences of alcohol abuse are well known; ban any activity with a physical risk beyond strolling through the park; require citizens to engage in a State-approved low-risk exercise program; require everyone to get at least 8 hours of sleep every night; require restaurants to serve only State-approved low-fat, low-calorie meals of proper portion size; ration cookies, doughnuts, chips, and all manner of other “useless” foods; identify each person’s best use to society in terms of career and require that they follow that career. I could go on, but you get the picture. These may sound extreme, but please tell me how they are inconsistent with the idea of “cost to society” argument in favor of helmet laws. Personally, I like a statement that I read somewhere on the internet, I don’t recall where or who said it - “Freedom is dangerous. You can either accept the risks that come with it or eventually lose it all step-by-step. Each step will be justified by its proponents as a minor inconvenience that will help make us all “safer.” Personally, I’d rather have a slightly more dangerous world that respects freedom more.”

I have never ridden without a helmet (full-face) and never will, and I used my seatbelt before seatbelt laws. I do both because in my judgment it would be stupid to not do so. If you think differently and don’t care to wear a helmet or use a seatbelt, that’s your business, not mine. (I also have no problem with requiring riders under 18 and novice riders to wear a helmet, and requiring riders to take the MSF course before they get their license. Those are relatively minor and short-lived intrusions of the State’s judgment.)

Not sure if I should post this, but oh well, here goes….
 
Proponents of the change say the decision to wear a helmet is a matter of personal freedom.

That sounds really great. Right up until they are disabled or dead and they and their families become a burden on society because the breadwinner is now in a wheel chair or braindamaged. I'm with HavBlue. Nothing wrong with a helmet law.
 
Laws are not the answer simple as that. I always wear a helment(full face), always. But I do not believe in laws that reduce personal freedom when there is no additional risk to others around me. It's natural selection at its best. I take a risk by stepping out my front door, I take a huge risk by getting on my bike, but i'll be damned if I let anyone keep me from riding. It is a simple case of personal fredom. Lets look at it like this... what if 80% of all motorcyle deaths were on sportbikes... and the State decided to outlaw sportbikes. would that be right? it's along the same lines. And as far as 42% ... in my book thats less than half. This states that 58% of riders in a fatal crash were wearing a helmet. It seems these statistics do not support pro-helmet by any margin.

Don't get me wrong I will always wear a helmet.... its just apart of who I am, I'm just not for pushing that on anyone else. Its a choice... if you let it stand as law, other laws that you don't agree with will be next.
 
That sounds really great. Right up until they are disabled or dead and they and their families become a burden on society because the breadwinner is now in a wheel chair or braindamaged. I'm with HavBlue. Nothing wrong with a helmet law.
A responsible rider would have disability and life insurance to take care of him or her self and his or her family. (Of course a responsible rider would also be wearing a helmet.) So let's say an irresponsible rider (male for the sake of this discussion) without a helmet and without disability insurance gets in a motorcycle accident and is in a coma or severely brain-damaged and his wife and family are without his income. Society chooses to not pull the plug on him and to not force his wife and kids to beg in the street for food. Nothing forces society to do so, they could let him die and let the family fend for themselves. Probably as little as 100 years ago or less, the latter would have occurred, but out of compassion or whatever, society now chooses the former. By voluntarily taking on that burden, do you now give society the power to regulate all behaviors that could lead to such situations?
 
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By voluntarily taking on that burden, do you now give society the power to regulate all behaviors that could lead to such situations?

No, of course not. You'd have to completely ban smoking, drinking (we saw where that got us!), even overeating! It just irritates me when people assert free choice and tax payers end up footing the bill. :rant:

End rant.
 
i live in a helmet state but would wear one anyways. i just don't feel safe without it.... with that said i think it should be up to the rider to make the choice i don't need my state making those kind of choices for me... it is a slipper slope like we all know. you may not care about some laws(like not being able to smoke in a retaurant) but that just gets them closer to something else you might really care about. so i say give them the least amount of control possible and let the individuals decide.
 
Umm, New Hampshire doesn't have a seat belt law and they are all doing just fine. When you talk about passing a law or a law that there should be, are you willing to put a gun to your neighbors head to force them to obey it? That's essentially what happens when a law is passed. If someone chooses for themselves instead of following some words on a piece of paper that a bunch of people they've never even met signed, eventually they will be looking down the barrel of a gun.

The fact is to have freedom, you have to give freedom and respect your neighbors choices. If you don't, there will come a time when they don't respect one of yours.

Now, about the whole, well I pay taxes and that tax money pays for these vegetables hospital stay etc... If we weren't forced to pay for things we didn't agree with, we would have more money to put towards things we do agree with. That way, you could either give to a charity (which did an excellent job at taking care of the homeless etc. until this nanny state started up. They did well because they were held accountable, and their money wasn't taken by force and they had to spend it wisely etc. etc.) or you could start up an organization on your own promoting the use of helmets and use creative and tactful ways to persuede people to use helmets instead of forcing them to at gunpoint.

The fact is, you're never going to FORCE everybody to do something. It just doesn't work. You have to get people to do things at their own will. Even I've learned that just from experience being a camp counselor/rec director and I'm only 19.
 
I think anyone that would get on a highway without a helmet should have their head examined, around here we call them organ donors, not sure the medical industry could do without them... However I have ridden up Main street in Daytona during bike week without my helmet and thoroughly enjoyed it and really appreciate the freedom to do it. Less government and more freedom is a good thing.
 
Seatbelts: 'They' said 'it would be a good idea to wear your seatbelt' - I said "Y'know? You're right" and have worn my seat belt for 20 of my 22 years of driving. If I don't live through an accident, at least they won't have far to go to find me.

O'course, now Illinois has the "Click-it-or-Ticket" gun to everyone's head...sigh...look guys (gov't), if people want to...I dunno...dance around inside their car while they're hauling ash down the road? I say "let them", they won't be a bother to anyone else for very much longer. I know, I know, you needed to develop new revenue streams and all that, but, hey, here's a thought, manage the flipping taxes you already suck out of us and you won't need more! /rant

Helmets: I left my just purchased bike at the dealer because they didn't have the helmet I wanted and had to order one - 'nuff said. No law in IL, yet. Just a matter of time before some over-privileged squid tries to go through the side of truck at 150 MPH and his Mommy starts another ridiculous campaign to attempt to get everyone to live the way she thinks is right, because a helmet would have saved her Darwin award winning son and he would have been wearing one (with his sandals and shorts) if it was THE LAW(tm). (dangit, I thought I turned this off /rant, is it off now?)

I'm reminded of this guy I saw cruising the slab at 70-odd MPH with no brain keeper. His cheeks looked like the guys in stock footage of astronauts in the gravity chair thing. I thought "That can't possibly feel good". I can't imagine the agony of running through the clouds of bugs I've hit, without a helmet (and don't wish to find out).
 
I live in a non helmet law state (IL) and wear one 95% of the time. When I don't, its to my buddies house 1/4 mile down the road.

Reasons I wear a full faced helmet.

1. Protection in a crash
2. Wind Protection
3. BUGS!!!!!
4. Less noisy
5. bugs
6. Looks cool
7. more bugs
 
I live in Arizona, no helmet law here. I have NEVER ridden without one though, even when I just took the bike for a quick spin around the block. I believe a study found that if you hit your head while going over just 18 mph, it will be fatal (no citation to back this up). I'm not sure how I feel about a helmet law. I understand the personal freedom, but I would be devastated and would surely go through a depression if one of my friends died on a bike while not wearing a helmet.

My friend has a cruiser, and I berate him everytime I found out he was riding without his gear (He was riding today in a tank top, even though he has a leather jacket). I absolutely refuse to ride with him unless he has his helmet. If he wants to spill his bucket contents on the street, I don't want to be there to see it.

I also nearly hit a bird with my face going 75, and my faceshield looks like a sheet of flypaper after freeway rides. Full face FTW!
 
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I live in Delaware and would not consider not wearing a helmet all the time. I even wear my jacket and boots no matter how hot it is out. I even wear my jacket and boots, when no one else is because I am not willing to take the chance.

Ironically, Delaware has mandatory seat belt, but it isn't to wear a helmet. I also believe in free choice, but just wish people would protect themselves especially for their loved ones. Loved ones are the people who have to live with the decisions.
 
Laws are not the answer simple as that. I always wear a helment(full face), always. But I do not believe in laws that reduce personal freedom when there is no additional risk to others around me. It's natural selection at its best. I take a risk by stepping out my front door, I take a huge risk by getting on my bike, but i'll be damned if I let anyone keep me from riding. It is a simple case of personal fredom. Lets look at it like this... what if 80% of all motorcyle deaths were on sportbikes... and the State decided to outlaw sportbikes. would that be right? it's along the same lines. And as far as 42% ... in my book thats less than half. This states that 58% of riders in a fatal crash were wearing a helmet. It seems these statistics do not support pro-helmet by any margin.

Don't get me wrong I will always wear a helmet.... its just apart of who I am, I'm just not for pushing that on anyone else. Its a choice... if you let it stand as law, other laws that you don't agree with will be next.



good point. ive ridden dirt bikes for most of my life and have never ridden without a helmet on let alone full gear. Riding without a helmet on is stupid its like...sex without a condom. Why take the chance. o and by the way how is a helmet law any different then a seatbelt law?

o one more thing a kid from a town over past away after falling off a BMX bike and hitting his head on concrete.. he tried to hop onto something (going no faster then 5mph) fell off the bike and slammed his head with no helmet imagine what would happend to if u were doing 65.
 
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It's interesting how freedom is perceived in this thread. Keeping to the motorcycle/cage side of things, riding as a transportation method is not now nor has it ever been a right and neither has driving any other form of motorized transportation. Rather, the operation of a motorized vehicle is a privilege and that privilege comes with certain rules which involve taking tests to show a basic ability as well as following minimum safety standards from lighting to safety equipment like seat belts and windshield wipers. Without those you get a citation for not following the laws established for the safe operation of that vehicle.

In contrast, motorcycle riders and groups have traditionally fought the establishment of laws like mandatory rider training, helmets and pretty much anything that would have brought motorcycle riding up to the same level as other vehicles in terms of safety. Interestingly, our laws are based on what a "reasonable person" would do. A reasonable person would wear a helmet at a minimum. A reasonable person would take an MSF class as opposed to learning to ride from a buddy with bad habits and a questionable driving/riding record. A reasonable person would also understand the need for safety training or admit they were blind to the results of things being status quo. A reasonable person would strive to make a sport they enjoy better, not worse. Therefore, that same reasonable person should be alarmed at 4,800 deaths in a single year and strive to make their sport safer.

In my mind and with respect to riding/driving being a privilege, I can only hope those unreasonable people that don't care about 4,800 lives being lost because it doesn't affect them understand the reason laws are in place is quite often to protect those that do care. It also protects the ignorant and the stupid from time to time. The State of Florida could soon become the first state to pass a law requiring mandatory rider training much like driver's education for a cage and I for one think it's way over due.
 
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