Joined the cracked oil pan club

[vincentmoy]

So today I was gonna change the oil. I was at my friend's shop so I decided to use a torque wrench. Well, it was one of those click ones instead of my beam type and I didn't set the torque, which is at the lowest setting (it has a window with a line thru it so I thought the line will move as I apply torque). So I ape nut on it and just when I was wondering why the line is not moving, the bolt starts free spinning.

Upon closer examination, I found this:thumbdown::thumbdown:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

A big and somewhat expensive oops but nothing $ can't fix! Your not the first...

Time for a new pan.....

The bggest PIA is pulling the header, the messiest, dropping the pan. There is ONE SCREW DEAD SMACK in the middle to be aware of. Start spraying the head to header bolts now with penetrating oil

Besdies a new pan gasket, you should replace the o-ring for the oil level sender(also located in the pan) and new header /head metal gaskets(round) .

And use a torque wrench where most of your work is in the middle range of the wrench....

 

[vincentmoy]

A big and somewhat expensive oops but nothing $ can't fix! Your not the first...

Time for a new pan.....

The bggest PIA is pulling the header, the messiest, dropping the pan. There is ONE SCREW DEAD SMACK in the middle to be aware of. Start spraying the head to header bolts now with penetrating oil

Besdies a new pan gasket, you should replace the o-ring for the oil level sender(also located in the pan) and new header /head metal gaskets(round) .

And use a torque wrench where most of your work is in the middle range of the wrench....

Want to make sure the o-ring is #8 in the diagram and the gaskets are #9 & #18

 

[pantone]

I joined this club two month ago and it cost me 150 USD to retap the thread.

I used a high-range torque wrench for this bolt for the first time and ruined it shortly after, the same situation like you.

Never use a torque wrench for this bolt if the torque range is far beyond it is required.

What a pity is the repaired bolt is still leaking a little. I had decided not to take care of it any more and use a tape seal in the next oil change.

BTW, one guy here found there are some threads intack inside the hole(spare threads?) and use a longer bolt without the need to retap the thread. Maybe you can try.

 

[FinalImpact]

Sorry to see this on both accounts ^^^....

I'm posting as others may read this.

The torque spec of 31 ft/lbs is valid ONLY WITH;
• A NEW CRUSH WASHER
• DRY OIL-FREE THREADS & WASHER

Its an oil pan there is no way to keep the threads dry. And for the most part, no reason to replace the crush washer/gasket. So this is where we get into trouble.

SOLUTION: Use a basic ratchet paying close attention to "when the bolt stops turning". The bolt/plug is to large to ever stretch at these low Tq values, so something has to give once the bolt stops turning.
Its only job is to stay and not leak. Make sure its tight enough to not fall out and not leak and you should be fine.

 

[vincentmoy]

Sorry to see this on both accounts ^^^....

I'm posting as others may read this.

The torque spec of 31 ft/lbs is valid ONLY WITH;
• A NEW CRUSH WASHER
• DRY OIL-FREE THREADS & WASHER

Its an oil pan there is no way to keep the threads dry. And for the most part, no reason to replace the crush washer/gasket. So this is where we get into trouble.

SOLUTION: Use a basic ratchet paying close attention to "when the bolt stops turning". The bolt/plug is to large to ever stretch at these low Tq values, so something has to give once the bolt stops turning.
Its only job is to stay and not leak. Make sure its tight enough to not fall out and not leak and you should be fine.

The sad part was I already hand tight it all the way to meet the pan. I was just thinking to torque it to spec..... Now I'm kicking myself

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Want to make sure the o-ring is #8 in the diagram and the gaskets are #9 & #18

For the pan itself, 12, 8 and 11 (first pic)

For the exhaust, definitly (4) #3's and probably #9 (may be able to re-use it if it doesn't fall apart)..(second pic)


Just as a side note, for my Yamaha OB engine, F150 4 stroke, (same exact oil plug, aluminum block), Yamaha factory spec is 20 ft lbs

I torque both the outboard engine AND the FZ drain plugs to 12 lbs. Doesn't leak, won't go anywhere...


+ Deleted by author.

 

[FinalImpact]

The sad part was I already hand tight it all the way to meet the pan. I was just thinking to torque it to spec..... Now I'm kicking myself

Sorry man! That sucks!
- I have plain aluminum S1 pan in the for sale section, but no help to you. fleebay has both flavors for $30 - $60, but be careful of those ads as many listings are for FZ6R....
Let us know if you need anything. One big tip to save your engine - replace the seal between the STRAINER (pickup) and the PUMP!! If the strainer is moved and this seal is hard, it could allow the oil pump to suck air instead of oil. Replace it! ITS CHEAP INSURANCE!
* NEW-->> 5EB-13415-00-00 SEAL, OIL STRAINER $4.58

214-11198-01-00, GASKET << drain plug
5VX-13414-01-00, GASKET STRAINER COVER, $8.27

2008 FZ6 - FZS6XB Yamaha Motorcycle OIL PUMP Diagram and Parts

2008 FZ6 - FZS6XB Yamaha Motorcycle OIL CLEANER Diagram and Parts

The NEW crush washer is HUGE DEAL in order to use that torque spec as the tension applied will "crush it". Once crushed, it just comes up tight and there is little turning after it seats. I HAVE NO IDEA WHY they listed such a number when 95% of the population is not going to buy new washer for an oil change. Let alone, keep the threads dry/washer dry. Lube on threads and washer decrease the rotational friction of the bolt. The result is over torque which can yield an equivelent tq value of ~15 - 25ft/lbs more (i.e. ~45 - 56ft/lbs).

Again - I'm writing to inform others. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help.
Regards,
F/I

 

[FinalImpact]

For the pan itself, 12, 8 and 11 (first pic)

For the exhaust, definitly (4) #3's and probably #9 (may be able to re-use it if it doesn't fall apart)..(second pic)


Just as a side note, for my Yamaha OB engine, F150 4 stroke, (same exact oil plug, aluminum block), Yamaha factory spec is 20 ft lbs

I torque both the outboard engine AND the FZ drain plugs to 12 lbs. Doesn't leak, won't go anywhere...

Replacement of the Exhaust gaskets is best, but I will say the ones at the manifold are very durable. The head side will be perfectly flat. The exhaust side can have some deformation. If you install the flat side back towards the head, it should seal just fine. CLEAN THE CARBON OUT AS BEST POSSIBLE! NEW OR USED, THE CARBON CAN BE HARDER THAN THE GASKET! Clean is important on; head, gasket, exhaust!
- You must retorque after a few heat cycles whether new or used.
- Collector to mid pipe. #9, those are also great quality and usually stuck in the midpipe and do not come free easily.

The hitch is this - you can just drop the header and push it back up in there. BUT, its a PITA to keep all 4 gaskets and align the mid pipe. Either loosen the midpipe at the tail pipe and frame mount so it moves OR the SAFEST method and far less mental strain is loosen the muffler, pull it back, remove the midpipe, drop the header. Return in that order. Most greases have things in them that will damage the O2 sensor so I would not use grease to hold the 4 header gaskets in place.
- Fit header close to block leaving it slightly below the exhaust port.
- Insert 4 gaskets holding header 1/2 over exhaust port. Use your knees and shin to hold the header up and both hands to insert gaskets.
- Once all four are in, seat header and fit a couple of nuts.
- Install rear hanger bolt. DO NOT ALLOW HEADER TO SAG, IT WILL STRAIN AND CRUSH THE WASHERS.

Also, you need to lift the tank and unplug O2 sensor. Its not a good practice to twist the wire. Unplug it, pull it up top and just lower the header.

Having had the header and pan off for S1 header to S2 chassis I've been here a few times!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

We (I), did the same procedure on an 07 FJR for a heli-colil repair (slightly different set up)-drain plug stripped-NOT CRACKED.

We were able to remove the header without removing the midpipe (newish bike, nothing froze/stuck) and the mid pipe gasket wasn't an issue. Used all the same exhaust gaskets (short of the pan, etc) with no leaks..

 

[Taz3]

We (I), did the same procedure on an 07 FJR for a heli-colil repair (slightly different set up)-drain plug stripped-NOT CRACKED.

We were able to remove the header without removing the midpipe (newish bike, nothing froze/stuck) and the mid pipe gasket wasn't an issue. Used all the same exhaust gaskets (short of the pan, etc) with no leaks..

Funnily enough, I started browsing this section to see if there was already a post about Helicoil/ReCoil/Similar such systems. I think there should be a sticky about them and how to use them/what is needed!!

For any stripped female threads I think this is definitely the way to go. I tightened my right front engine mount too much (steel into aluminum) and ended up pulling out some of the aluminum threads (was trying to fit both a Givi engine guard and a Woodcraft frame slider base with the Woodcraft bolt, which is too short for both). So I've recently done a ton of research about these systems, and it can save a hell of a lot of time and money!!!

I haven't actually used one yet though, since I realised I only pulled out 3 threads, so with a longer bolt I'll be fine and don't have to drop $70-$150 on a Helicoil kit.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Funnily enough, I started browsing this section to see if there was already a post about Helicoil/ReCoil/Similar such systems. I think there should be a sticky about them and how to use them/what is needed!!

For any stripped female threads I think this is definitely the way to go. I tightened my right front engine mount too much (steel into aluminum) and ended up pulling out some of the aluminum threads (was trying to fit both a Givi engine guard and a Woodcraft frame slider base with the Woodcraft bolt, which is too short for both). So I've recently done a ton of research about these systems, and it can save a hell of a lot of time and money!!!

I haven't actually used one yet though, since I realised I only pulled out 3 threads, so with a longer bolt I'll be fine and don't have to drop $70-$150 on a Helicoil kit.

The only issue is the location of the drain bolt in the pan is very different between the FZ and FJR engine. The FJR engine RARELY CRACKs as the drain bolt faces downward and has a protective "rim" or edge on the forward edge of it. It usually, due to the design, just strips out.

The design of the FZ pan usually results in a cracked pan which would require welding, etc.

So it depends on what specificially happened to the pan on how to proceed..:thumbup:

 

[vincentmoy]

So I'm about to start to replace the oil pan. I just want to make sure the oil pan bolt tightening torque is fine to use according to the service manual (I think it's about 10 Nm, need to go read it up).

Many thanks!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So I'm about to start to replace the oil pan. I just want to make sure the oil pan bolt tightening torque is fine to use according to the service manual (I think it's about 10 Nm, need to go read it up).

Many thanks!

Just checking the Yamaha manual shows 12NM, or 8.7 ft lbs including the center bolt. The oil level unit is a little less, 7.2 ft lbs.

Also, tighten the oil pan bolts in stages and in a crisscross pattern
and lubricate the oil level switch O-ring with engine oil.

(page 5-45 S2 Yamaha manual)

 

[warthogcrewchief]

I posted an update to a cracked crankcase/oil leak due to a drive chain break. The PO used JB weld (which sucks). I'm not one to use "quick fixes", but it's expensive and hard to find a good engine (when mine runs great!). When the welding shop screwed up, I took maters into my own hands....

I used a product from Hy-Poxy called H-45 AlumBond Amazon.com: Hy-Poxy H-45 Alumbond 2 oz Aluminum Putty Repair Kit: Industrial & Scientific

It's less than $6 on Amazon Prime.

It worked well for my Magnesium Alloy parts, but the secret is to get it SUPER CLEAN with new metal exposed via sanding. Use brake cleaner as an inexpensive non-residue cleaner. Stuff works great, takes 24 hours to completely cure and has (about) a 45 minute working time.

M8 or M10 Helicoil kits on Amazon are about $25-$30. Just get the oversized one you need and go to town. Helicoils are easy, just keep the drill and tap straight as you turn.

If you're not going to drop the pan, then flush a few quarts of oil through the system before running to clean out any debris.

It might be a "cheap" fix, but and as I said, I'm not one to typically go that route...but when money is tight, you make do with what you got. Right?

 

[warthogcrewchief]

I posted an update to a cracked crankcase/oil leak due to a drive chain break. The PO used JB weld (which sucks). I'm not one to use "quick fixes", but it's expensive and hard to find a good engine (when mine runs great!). When the welding shop screwed up, I took maters into my own hands....

I used a product from Hy-Poxy called H-45 AlumBond Amazon.com: Hy-Poxy H-45 Alumbond 2 oz Aluminum Putty Repair Kit: Industrial & Scientific

It's less than $6 on Amazon Prime.

It worked well for my Magnesium Alloy parts, but the secret is to get it SUPER CLEAN with new metal exposed via sanding. Use brake cleaner as an inexpensive non-residue cleaner. Stuff works great, takes 24 hours to completely cure and has (about) a 45 minute working time.

M8 or M10 Helicoil kits on Amazon are about $25-$30. Just get the oversized one you need and go to town. Helicoils are easy, just keep the drill and tap straight as you turn.

If you're not going to drop the pan, then flush a few quarts of oil through the system before running to clean out any debris.

It might be a "cheap" fix, but and as I said, I'm not one to typically go that route...but when money is tight, you make do with what you got. Right?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Echo, echo, echo......