Help! Crack in frame...

[GvCIA]

I had crashed recently and done some damage to the front end of the FZ6. Bent forks, and a small chip in the front of the frame where the fairing mount bolts onto the frame. Getting it fixed, but the welder needs me to remove the frame bolts (which are some weird torx bolt or something). If ANYONE knows what that tool is and what size (if applicable) I need it ASAP to remove the bolts. My last option is running to the dealership and seeing if I can "borrow" theirs.

 

[wrightme43]

Are you talking about the tamperproof torx for the steering head bearings that hold the two pieces of the frame together???

Those are going to be hard to find. Snapon/Mac would probably be your best bet and may have to order them.

They are tamperproof cause they dont want them messed with. Is there anyway he can just weld with out removal? You will have two pieces of frame trying to pull apart if you do and he heats the area.

Maybe I misunderstand, a pic would help.
Steve

 

[GvCIA]

Yeah those looking bolts in the front. I guess thats what they are then. The piece I need to remove is a tiny chip in the front frame, basically just the part where the bolt threads through. I remove the bolt, and the piece basically falls off. Thanks for your help!

 

[chemicalsmile]

Those are security torx - same as Torx bits but have that hole punched out in the center - my old bike had a bunch of them. Should be able to find a set at most hardware stores, I think I bought mine at Ace.

 

[Se7enLC]

VIP sells a 100 piece security bit set that includes the security torx bits. I can't tell from the photo how large that is, though - I suspect it's much larger than the ones in the kit.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/100-Pc-Security-Bit-Set/dp/B000O5XDOG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1247586725&sr=1-3"]This[/ame] is the kit I have

"Security Torx" is what you're looking for.

Here's another set that might be better suited.

 

[GvCIA]

If anyone is looking for the same solution I figured out my problem thanks to you guys! It is a Tamper-Proof Torx Bolt size T-45 to remove them. Sears had a bunch of sets, as well as just that individual size

Torque to apply to the bolt is 40 lb. or more (needs to be pretty tight as it holds the triple tree in place ) Hope this helps someone!

 

[zonkkk]

Is the torx size T45?

I am putting in new steering bearings (All Balls) but having problems with putting the races in. It just won't go in all the way. Is it a good idea to undo these security bolts a little bit to allow the upper race into place then tighten again?

 

[Nelly]

Is the torx size T45?

I am putting in new steering bearings (All Balls) but having problems with putting the races in. It just won't go in all the way. Is it a good idea to undo these security bolts a little bit to allow the upper race into place then tighten again?

Check out Chevy Fazers frame weld posts and Fazils fork conversion posts.
Both guys have undone these bolts. I think Fazil undid them to seat his races.

Nelly

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Most sets are starting to come with the hole. With a steady hand and a little drill you can get it down enough to turn it. I just went ahead and bought a kit, I would suggest a set from snap on due to the fact that if you ever come across one to tight or you accidentally use the wrong size it will ruin the bit.

But they are expensive, try to catch a sale. Normal kit cost upwards to 300+ but as long as you don't loose them they will always be replaced. Good investment to me.

 

[FinalImpact]

There should be NO reason to remove them. None really. Clean everything, apply some light grease or engine oil and evenly suck them in or drive them in with the old race inverted.
Did you confirm the OD is the same and how are you trying to install them, as in what stopped? If you get them c0cked they will stop moving.
Please add some details and or start a new thread as the root cause is not the same as the guy welding his frame. Tks....

 

[Nelly]

Not the same as welding, but the poster wanted some info on undoing the frame. Probably doesn't need a new thread as there are a good few on the same subject.
Nelly

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Freezing the outer race will shrink it slightly making the install a little easier but you have to work quick.

As long as the race is straight in the steering head, SLOWLY driving it, working around (one hit in one spot, go 180 degress across another hit, 90degrees, another) etc in so its STRAIGHT (and NOT C0cked-as posted above) should set it in.

If you can support (at least for the top race) the lower part of the steering head with perhaps a 2x4(direct to the floor), it should help take out any flex you may get (as the bikes likely NOT supported until the header- allowing some deflection). The more support you have directly under the bearing, the better. :thumbup:

 

[fazil]

Both guys have undone these bolts. I think Fazil undid them to seat his races.

I didn't touch them. I ended up, just hammering down the steering races.
Forum members adviced not to unbolt those bolts. I checked service manual and found nothing about them also.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Can someone explain to me why un bolting these is such an issue to be advised against?

 

[FinalImpact]

Can someone explain to me why un bolting these is such an issue to be advised against?

There are several reasons:
- once you loosen them, any debris resting in the area can get trapped in the contact area preventing the two halves from going back together completely. Now there is a need to separate them far enough to clean them thoroughly.

- Its a casting; although you can loosen them so the races fall into to place, this process opens the inside diameter of the machined opening as you end up bending the frame around the races when you torque the bolts.

- Its meant to be an interference fit. Using the proper tool for the job will get results. If it doesn't, it could be that something else is wrong. Are they the right bearings?

- You risk damaging the frame. These are paired for life and either half by itself is of no value as they are machined as a pair.


- TIP: DO NOT USE ANTI-SEIZE compound. Its not the proper application and will hinder installation nearly doubling the applied force to seat the races. Oil of grease work fine.

 

[FinalImpact]

Also, you could rent or buy the proper tool for the job. They are not all that expensive. The trick here is to use a hammer that weighs AT LEAST 2X more them the combined weight of the items your trying to move. If its too light or equal your arm is now doing all the work instead of the hammer. Otherwise your just making a bunch of noise and not moving the race.

View attachment 49851

https://www.google.com/search?q=bea...GFiAKX0oDYAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1647&bih=796

This is just from personal experience after working at transmission shop for 6 years thus I've installed many bearings of all kinds in varying configurations so its not dig, just physics; although you can freeze the part which DOES HELP reduce its overall diameter, you have less then a few minutes to get it fully installed as contact with the frame will equalize the temperatures fast making the time and effort of freezing them impractical. Aluminum disperses heat very quickly and the mass of the race vs the mass of the frame area sucks the chill right out of that race. IMO it forces people to rush and leads to mistakes.

However, If you have access to liquid nitrogen (LN/LN2) and can dip both the driver and race in it, this will help as you have more mass at a much lower temperature (−210 °C; −346 °F) than a standard ice box. Of course this comes with other hazards!

 

[zonkkk]

Guys, thanks for all the replies... I have found the problem. I didn't take out the old races. I know very stupid... all in now...

 

[Motogiro]

Just to add to the info for future wrenching I've used dry ice in similar fitting issues where you have very tight tolerances. Dry ice is the freezing point of CO2 which is -109.3°F or -78.5°C.

We used to pack leader bushings in dry ice overnight, warm the insert area and press the leader bushing in.
Very important as previously mentioned is squareness of the race to the bore, making sure the race is not ****ed. Not only can it get jammed but you can shear off metal from the receiving bore and end up with debris interference.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Although the problem is fixed at this point, out of curiosity, I did some research and found numerous security torx sets of varying quality.

As an FYI, what I found that appeared to be a good thing to have in the tool box:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B8NC2E/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER]Bosch CC60391 6 Piece Security Torx Bit Set - Amazon.com[/ame]

Bosch makes a very good product, the price is cheap enough. Write ups were very good as well. I suspect they'll be on my next order from Amazon.

 

[trepetti]

The Bosch set looks good. Be wary of cheap sets. A long time ago I bought a set that'll is like the $7.98 set at the bottom of the Amazon page. The holes in the bits were not centered making them useless. I had to ream out the one bit I needed, which was easy because the set seemed to be made of some very soft material. Junk.