YAST- Setting up Hyperpro progressive springs

[dpaul007]

Thanks for the feedback! Which springs did you go with? Did you set the sag?

I went with Racetech .90 springs. I'm around 182 lbs. I got lucky setting sag, got it right on the first cut when I installed my springs. I cut two 7" pieces off the pipe that came in the racetech box and that put me at, if I remember correctly, 33ish mm of sag. FWIW, my rear shock setting is at position 5 for proper sag in the rear.

I can't comment on how it really feels yet, we got snow here earlier this week.

 

[darius]

I went with Racetech .90 springs. I'm around 182 lbs. I got lucky setting sag, got it right on the first cut when I installed my springs. I cut two 7" pieces off the pipe that came in the racetech box and that put me at, if I remember correctly, 33ish mm of sag. FWIW, my rear shock setting is at position 5 for proper sag in the rear.

I can't comment on how it really feels yet, we got snow here earlier this week.

Awesome. You're perfectly in the 30-35mm range for street riding and your fillings shouldn't be rattling out! :rockon:

I hope you get to ride soon. If you could post up how it rides over the bumps and how it steers, I'd appreciate it. :thumbup:

 

[darius]

Bike is on the operating table. Let's try not to break anything. Might take some pics.

 

[darius]

Casualties so far: zip ties

Springs sitting in the old oil. Hyperpros at top measured at 360mm length and stocker at 355mm. So this would be why Hyperpro advises to lower the front 5mm:

Hang 'em high:

Old and new oils:

Stock 130mm spacers:

 

[darius]

Now to cut the spacers. Suggestions?? Great planning I know! :spank:

 

[FinalImpact]

Casualties so far: zip ties

Springs sitting in the old oil. Hyperpros at top measured at 360mm length and stocker at 355mm. So this would be why Hyperpro advises to lower the front 5mm:

Stock 130mm spacers:

Lets add some perspective: As the spring rate goes UP, the free length can and does go down more often than not. Why, because the spring settles less under the same load. However, with progressive springs the free length means little OTHER THAN has the SPRING Collapsed from its original specifications.

There is so much involved with springs that its a science of its own - so free height means little other than reference to what it should be as manufactured NEW.

Just sayin.. .. ..

 

[darius]

No thanks to you 'orrible lot, I started with a mini hacksaw then with a cut started I used a Sawzall.

Cut was uneven but I sanded it the last 1-2mm and got it flat.

Victory! Well over one anyway. I'm doing the other one tomorrow.

 

[darius]

Lets add some perspective: As the spring rate goes UP, the free length can and does go down more often than not. Why, because the spring settles less under the same load. However, with progressive springs the free length means little OTHER THAN has the SPRING Collapsed from its original specifications.

There is so much involved with springs that its a science of its own - so free height means little other than reference to what it should be as manufactured NEW.

Just sayin.. .. ..

Fortunately all we need to understand is where we are and how to get where we want to be. For me a little more sag along with a little less jack hammer and I'll be just dandy.

BTW, how much money did Yamaha save by not including a preload adjuster? :thumbdown:

 

[darius]

2nd spacer was easier. Masking tape for marking the cut and I cut it straight with the hacksaw, saving lots of time.

Filed down all the burrs and sanded smooth the edges.

Forks were fully drained overnight. Assembly is easy. Fully compress fork, fill to 20cm from the top, compress 20 times, fill to 14cm from the top.

Insert spring- tightly wound at the top, washer, spacer, cap. Reinstall fork, tighten fork caps.

 

[darius]

Bike is all back together. Forks feel a lot softer holding the brake and compressing them.

Kept front end lowered 10mm over stock.

Quick test ride result:
Bike feels great over small bumps.
Steering unaffected, still great.
Braking- big improvement! Didn't expect this. The front end dive is more controlled, more feel. Before it was like I had no feel until the brakes were hard on.

To do:
Go on a longer ride to assess further.
Check new sag and how balanced the front is with the rear.

 

[FrozenBiker]

A whole lot of homework required to get it right Years ago I put "Progressive Suspension" brand in the CB650,
some new fluid, and just called it a day.. And you could actually use ATF in the forks back then.

 

[darius]

A whole lot of homework required to get it right Years ago I put "Progressive Suspension" brand in the CB650,
some new fluid, and just called it a day.. And you could actually use ATF in the forks back then.

A bit of a PITA but good experience all the same. I'm learning a lot setting up the bike. Hopefully it'll be dialed in nicely soon.

Next bike will have higher quality suspension and adjustment!

 

[darius]

32mm sag up front without gear. Perfect! :rockon:

Went for a longer test ride:
I could feel everything the front was doing, which is something I'll need to get used to.

Steering- oops, went too far. The bike now over steers. I needed to apply pressure to the opposite grip to keep the bike from turning too early, which is a weird feeling.

Front is lowered too far with the big change in sag so more adjustment is in order.

 

[dpaul007]

Ride update. Went riding a bunch over the weekend and I like! With new tires front and rear and new suspension up front, it rides very nice. Front and rear feel a lot more similar now. Turning in to corners is too easy and I over do it sometimes (I think that's more of the new tires than suspension, though) I like the way she rides and feels now! I think I could have gotten away with 7.5w or 10w oil in the forks to firm it up a touch more. Maybe next time.

Good luck on the fine-tuning!

 

[darius]

Ride update. Went riding a bunch over the weekend and I like! With new tires front and rear and new suspension up front, it rides very nice. Front and rear feel a lot more similar now. Turning in to corners is too easy and I over do it sometimes (I think that's more of the new tires than suspension, though) I like the way she rides and feels now! I think I could have gotten away with 7.5w or 10w oil in the forks to firm it up a touch more. Maybe next time.

Good luck on the fine-tuning!

Good deal. Sounds like you have a great setup there.

I just set the position of the forks in the triple from 10mm to 5. Hopefully this will get the steering back to neutral.

If you decide to go with a heavier oil, check out Seneca's post on viscosity:

3.- Once you have the correct springs you can go to choose the correct oil, don't look only at the weight (Sae), please choose the correct viscosity (Cst grade), I'm using now 25 to 30 Cst in Fz6 S2 with good results, the bike came with Kayaba01 oil wich may be something like 16 Cst...

 

[darius]

Update
Steering: I did some mild twisties and the steering feels great keeping the lowered front end at 5mm. Feels neutral.

Suspension feels great on the streets. Small bumps are barely felt, if at all. Large bumps don't upset the front end. Bike feels stable over rough road surfaces.

Braking: forks barely dive under smooth braking. Lots of feel.

Overall I'm very happy with the setup. Not tempted at all to try higher viscosity oils. Feels just like the brand new 2013 Yamaha FZ6R I demoed last year and I bet that didn't have 15W oil in it either :thumbup:

 

[FinalImpact]

No thanks to you 'orrible lot, I started with a mini hacksaw then with a cut started I used a Sawzall.

Cut was uneven but I sanded it the last 1-2mm and got it flat.

Victory! Well over one anyway. I'm doing the other one tomorrow.

Chris,
I think you mentioned the OEM spacers are 130mm stock. Does that ring a bell? (Found Answer in FSM) 131 mm. FWIW: a tubing cutter would likely be very kind to work with as it would cut the tubing straight and not leave a burrs like SawzzzzzzzZalllllll.

So, after riding the remainder of the summer, are you still happy with this and how it came out with the progressive rate springs?

=================================

Hyperpro wrote back with the unlisted spring rates: :thumbup:
Front: 8.5 – 15.00 N/mm
Rear: 147 – 227 N/mm​

=================================
OEM INFO: Front suspension
Type Telescopic fork
Spring/shock absorber type: Coil spring/oil damper
Front fork travel: 130.0 mm (5.12 in)
Fork spring free length: 354.0 mm (13.94 in)
Min Length: 347 mm (13.56 in)

Collar length 131.5 mm (5.18 in)
Installed length 347.0 mm (13.66 in)
Spring rate K1: 7.40 N/mm (42.25 lb/in) (0.75 kgf/mm)
Spring rate K2: 11.80 N/mm (67.38 lb/in) (1.20 kgf/mm)

Spring stroke K1: 0.0–70.0 mm (0.00–2.76 in)
Spring stroke K2: 70.0–130.0 mm (2.76–5.12 in)​

Recommended oil Suspension oil 01 or equivalent
Quantity: 467.0 cm³ (15.79 US oz) (16.47 Imp.oz)
Level: 134.0 mm (5.28 in)

Inner tube outer diameter: 43.0 mm (1.69 in)
Inner tube bending limit: 0.2 mm (0.01 in)
Optional spring available: No

-
All, please note, the first 2"++ inches of travel on the OEM spring are said to be at a rate of 0.75kgf/mm - hence the reason the nose drops so much when tapping the brake!

=================================

Rear suspension
Type: Swingarm (monocross)
Spring/shock absorber type: Coil spring/gas-oil damper
Rear shock absorber assembly travel: 50.0 mm (1.97 in)
Spring free length: 185.0 mm (7.28 in)
Installed length: 172.0 mm (6.77 in)
Spring rate: K1 127.40 N/mm (727.45 lb/in) (12.99 kgf/mm)
Spring stroke: K1 0.0–50.0 mm (0.00–1.97 in)
Optional spring available No
Enclosed gas/air pressure (STD) 1200 kPa (170.7 psi) (12.0 kgf/cm²)
Spring preload adjusting positions (Minimum) 1
Spring preload adjusting positions (Standard) 3
Spring preload adjusting positions (Maximum) 7
Swingarm radial free play 1.0 mm (0.039 in)
Swingarm axial free play 1.0 mm (0.039 in)

=================================

 

[darius]

Chris,
I think you mentioned the OEM spacers are 130mm stock. Does that ring a bell? (Found Answer in FSM) 131 mm. FWIW: a tubing cutter would likely be very kind to work with as it would cut the tubing straight and not leave a burrs like SawzzzzzzzZalllllll.

So, after riding the remainder of the summer, are you still happy with this and how it came out with the progressive rate springs?

That's a lot of great info. You could publish your own technical manual on this bike.

The OEM spring rates highlight why the stock springs can collapse like wet noodles, especially with the weight of most riders and with old broken down fork oil.

My bike is riding great. It's not exactly plush or firm. It's right in the middle and stable. I remain very pleased with the outcome.