bike shifts better when chain is well lubed?

[fazer.rider]

so my shifts got a little clunky at low speeds in low gears and i was wondering what's wrong. i realized my chain was kinda dry so i soaked it with chain lube and the clunky shifts were gone. correlation anyone?

 

[Shamus McFeeley]

A dry chain will tend to "bind". The links don't flex as well (also happens with dirty chain) and they start to resist movement. The more often I ride, the shorter the interval I have for cleaning and lubing the chain. This could have been the cause of your problem.

 

[Adirondack Jack]

I also had the "clunks" for a while. It took a chain clean-up, some new O-ring chain lube, and a chain adjustment (took out some slack). I was amazed at how smooth things got. Well worth the time and effort and now I'll be more diligent in the chain maintenance dept. There is a direct correlation in my mind.

 

[FZ1inNH]

Tis far better to over-lube your chain than under-lube.

Search the web for chain failures people. You will not like what you find... the range covering minor bike damage, torn calf muscles, chain THROUGH the engine, severe lockup and transmission failure, wheel lock resulting in a high or low side and even a death or two because of one or more of these happening.

Please don't take chain maint lightly. Even if you don't clean it enough, at least keep lubing it. Lube it every other tank of gas (my personal standard). Lube it especially after a wet ride home. Clean AND lube it ESPECIALLY if you were riding in dusty, dry or dirt conditions.

10 minutes can make a BIG difference in the enjoyment you have on that next ride.

*EDIT* Also wanted to add that a worn chain means worn sprockets. A lubed chain equals healthy sprockets.

QUIZ: On your o-ring chain, WHERE are you spraying the lube and why? Is the chain warm or cold and why does it make a difference?

 

[abacall]

To the best of my common sense.....

QUIZ: On your o-ring chain, WHERE are you spraying the lube and why?

I try to get at the O-rings and rollers. The lube should be keeping the o-rings from dying out and causing failure.

Is the chain warm or cold and why does it make a difference?

Always warm, the heat expands the rings and allows the lube to penetrate.

 

[FZ1inNH]

To the best of my common sense.....

I try to get at the O-rings and rollers. The lube should be keeping the o-rings from dying out and causing failure.

Always warm, the heat expands the rings and allows the lube to penetrate.

Congrats! You scored 100%! Well done! :rockon:

Others have not both here (a long time ago) and other forums.

Pay attention folks! abacall's common sense is better than some rider's "facts" :thumbup:

 

[abacall]

Pay attention folks! abacall's common sense is better than some rider's "facts" :thumbup:

Yey for me! Now where's my rep?

I do lube every time I wash or ride in the rain or on dirt road, or every 500 miles or so.
The chain is a very serious piece of equipment on a motorcycle, not lubing it is way more dangerous than not changing your oil, and we all do that when we're supposed to.

 

[FZ1inNH]

Yey for me! Now where's my rep?

You got it! :rockon:

I do lube every time I wash or ride in the rain or on dirt road, or every 500 miles or so.
The chain is a very serious piece of equipment on a motorcycle, not lubing it is way more dangerous than not changing your oil, and we all do that when we're supposed to.

Well put!

Oh, and be sure the lube is recommended for O-Ring chains too.

Be careful what you're cleaning with as a lot of cleaning agents can damage the O-Rings. The best and cheapest if kerosene, found in your local superstore camping department. The stuff sold there is a paraffin based material which is good for the o-rings. This is also known as lamp oil. Stay away from petroleum based cleaners as they dry out and deteriorate o-rings resulting in premature chain failure.

And, as we've seen on another thread here, NEVER clean or lube the chain with the bike running on the center stand! :spank: We've had at least one partial thumb loss, let's limit this to just that one, ok? :cheer: Google for Grunge Brush and pick one up. You'll thank me later.

 

[RJ2112]

I take a minimalist approach with chain care. 90 wt gear oil, on a rag wiping down the chain 3-4 laps around the entire thing. Maybe once a month. Rain or shine. The OEM chain is at 23K miles, and has finally developed a stiff link. Pretty reasonable life, in my books.

My thinking is this:

The O rings are designed to seal in the lubrication installed at the time of manufacture.... anything that disturbs the seal between the side plates, roller, and O rings is going to allow dirt to penetrate the wiping area, and cause wear to the O ring.

Once the O ring is compromised, the lubrication put in at the factory is going to migrate out, at which point the wear on the chain will accelerate on that link/pin bigtime.

I'm not fond of sticky spray on stuff... haven't found a chain wax that makes a significant difference to chain life, but every one I tried added a lot of time to cleaning up afterwards.

I object to the idea that a bristle brush of any sort is going to improve the O rings' life. You poke a needle at a gasket.... you're not prolonging the gasket's life......... even if you don't nick the ring, unseating it from the wiping surface potentially allows the grit you have already disturbed to enter that area. 'Just a pinch of sand, between your cheek and gums'. I honestly don't see how that is a good idea.

Some folks take off their chain, and submerge it in kerosene.... seems to me, that will dilute the lube inside the rollers, if it penetrates.... then it should migrate out that much faster.....

Every spray on chain preservative I know of, HAS to use a thinning agent, to allow it to be sprayed out of an aerosol can.... the stuff is runny, until that thinning agent evaporates. What happens, if that thinning agent gets inside the O ring? .... seems to me, that will dilute the lube inside the rollers, if it penetrates.... then it should migrate out that much faster.....

I recognize the 90 wt I apply does not do any more than other products... but I think that limiting the amount of damage I do to the O rings lengthens their life. Preserving the OEM lube inside the pins of the chain to the greatest degree I can seems the best course for ensuring a long chain life. In my view, the gear oil does as well as anything I've seen on limiting corrosion on the exterior of the chain, and is almost certainly not doing any damage to the O rings.

If the oil I add gets flung off, there's a better than even chance it will take the grit and grime with it. What remains, I do not want to drive into the O rings.

.02

 

[Cali rider]

I take a minimalist approach with chain care. 90 wt gear oil, on a rag wiping down the chain 3-4 laps around the entire thing. Maybe once a month. Rain or shine. The OEM chain is at 23K miles, and has finally developed a stiff link. Pretty reasonable life, in my books....
Snipped but not forgotten..

This is a great analysis of chain maintenance. While I agree that gear oil is a quality lubricant, I prefer to use a spray on type.

My personal experience with modern O-ring chains is 30-40K miles of useful life before replacement is needed, and that is always dictated by wear exceeding 1.5% of new, not o-ring failure or corrosion. In addition, it is easier to carry and apply while on an extended trip. These conditions have convinced me that diligent chain lubrication (300-500 miles) with a quality spray lube (DuPont™ Teflon™ Chain-Saver Lubricant) will make MY chain last an acceptable distance.

 

[FZ1inNH]

The O rings are designed to seal in the lubrication installed at the time of manufacture.... anything that disturbs the seal between the side plates, roller, and O rings is going to allow dirt to penetrate the wiping area, and cause wear to the O ring.

Once the O ring is compromised, the lubrication put in at the factory is going to migrate out, at which point the wear on the chain will accelerate on that link/pin bigtime.

Agreed. This is why you need to clean the dirt and grime out. Particulates like dust and dirt are the leading culprit for o-ring failure. Failing to keep those particulates out (regular cleaning) will lead to premature chain failure.

I'm not fond of sticky spray on stuff... haven't found a chain wax that makes a significant difference to chain life, but every one I tried added a lot of time to cleaning up afterwards.

This is because the stuff meant for o-ring chains is tougher and meant to remain on the chain. I've yet to use one that kerosene will not easily and quickly disolve though.

I object to the idea that a bristle brush of any sort is going to improve the O rings' life. You poke a needle at a gasket.... you're not prolonging the gasket's life......... even if you don't nick the ring, unseating it from the wiping surface potentially allows the grit you have already disturbed to enter that area. 'Just a pinch of sand, between your cheek and gums'. I honestly don't see how that is a good idea.

The brushes designed for cleaning chains will not harm the o-rings. Those rings are very firm and durable. One would have to take a wire brush to the o-rings. The nylon bristles of a Grunge brush will not harm the chain in any fashion. If it did, there would be quite an uproar instead of multitudes of sales. :tumbup:

Some folks take off their chain, and submerge it in kerosene.... seems to me, that will dilute the lube inside the rollers, if it penetrates.... then it should migrate out that much faster.....

Owners of any FZ cannot do this. These are not masterlinked chains. Well, they could, but people are crazy to put a masterlink on a sport bike.

Every spray on chain preservative I know of, HAS to use a thinning agent, to allow it to be sprayed out of an aerosol can.... the stuff is runny, until that thinning agent evaporates. What happens, if that thinning agent gets inside the O ring? .... seems to me, that will dilute the lube inside the rollers, if it penetrates.... then it should migrate out that much faster.....

Yes, they do have an agent in them but again, it is a proven technology that sells because it works.

I recognize the 90 wt I apply does not do any more than other products... but I think that limiting the amount of damage I do to the O rings lengthens their life. Preserving the OEM lube inside the pins of the chain to the greatest degree I can seems the best course for ensuring a long chain life. In my view, the gear oil does as well as anything I've seen on limiting corrosion on the exterior of the chain, and is almost certainly not doing any damage to the O rings.

If the oil I add gets flung off, there's a better than even chance it will take the grit and grime with it. What remains, I do not want to drive into the O rings.

.02

The most damage anyone can do to the chain is to not clean it or keep it lubed. You're not doing anything really wrong and have had a decent life out of the chain. I'm not knocking your method but at the same time I'm not going to try it on my own.

 

[RJ2112]

FZ1NH....

We'd have to agree on a definition of 'premature' for the rest of this to have much merit, and it's quite likely neither of us will be able to produce a meaningful sample size that has consistent test process. Hence, it's mostly conjecture and friendly debate.

Proven technology that works? I'm a numbers guy..... show me a study done by any of these spray on lube companies that conclusively demonstrate extended life as a result of their product's use. (AND show me the control group data, AND show me the assumptions made in the study), There's so many variables in there, I seriously doubt it can be demonstrated. (I'm saying they probably work at least as well as what I do; it's just a lot harder to prove that scientifically than most assume.) It's better than a ShamWow for sure......

Any idea what the film strength of any of these spray on products are?

How soft are the bristles in the grunge brush? As soft as a 'soft' tooth brush? If that's the case, the towel I use to wipe the lube on and off is just as effective. If the bristles in the grunge brush are significantly more abrasive (med tooth brush, or 'hard') I have to think the brush does more damage than my towel, over time. I do remove quite a bit of grunge with that towel soaked in 90 wt. Once it's gotten black from all the removed schlock, toss it and get another one. How long do you keep using that same brush for?


Kerosene is somewhere down around a 1 or 2 weight oil, I believe.... of course that will cut through heavier oils and films of 'stuff'/waxes/whatever miracle glop of preference.

By using the 90 weight, I avoid having to remove the stuff you've sprayed on that you now need to remove....... like for like seems simpler, somehow. Especially when it's darn near impossible to completely remove 90 wt..... terrific film strength.....

FZ owners can and do remove their chains, when they get froggy enough to remove their swingarm..... and if so inclined, could easily cut the rivet heads on one link, and break the chain.... a press on master link that re-rivets in place is not a difficult task. (Not that I have personally felt the need to do so-- merely pointing out that I know FZ6 owners who have done this very thing.) And yes, I do own the rivet tool.

"The most damage anyone can do to the chain is to not clean it or keep it lubed. " -- I have to say that I disagree with this, as well. It's a huge factor... but the number one killer of chains, is adjusting them too tightly. Premature failure, or stretching? Too little slack will cause the stress on the pins to be magnified waaayyy beyond any lubrication process could assist with.

Cali rider.....

I assume you are using 1.5% chain stretch as your decision point? That's any point on the chain, right? Center of pin to center of pin, measured in millimeters? If I may ask, how often do you check this, and at how many points in a given sampling? (I'd think there would be no need, with less than 15K miles on the chain.... I have yet to see stretch at less than that, with a properly tensioned chain.)

 

[Cali rider]

.....
Cali rider.....

I assume you are using 1.5% chain stretch as your decision point? That's any point on the chain, right? Center of pin to center of pin, measured in millimeters? If I may ask, how often do you check this, and at how many points in a given sampling? (I'd think there would be no need, with less than 15K miles on the chain.... I have yet to see stretch at less than that, with a properly tensioned chain.)

First off, chains don't "stretch", they wear.

I inspect chain/sprocket wear about every 5,000 miles. Check 4-5 random nine-link samples, under tension, with a 0-6" caliper, across the pins as shown below, all dimensions in inches. New length is 5.825", when the measured length exceeds 5.912" replacement is needed.

 

[Red Wazp]

Just replaced tires, while I had easy access to the rear sprocket I cleaned the gunk off the teeth. Rear sprocket looks great at 11k, no hooking. I clean and lube every 2-4 hundred miles.
Learned long ago with the dualsports to clean and lube often, it will pay you back big with reduced wear on it and the sprockets.
Also it's better to let the chain to be a bit loose rather than too tight.

 

[RJ2112]

First off, chains don't "stretch", they wear.

I inspect chain/sprocket wear about every 5,000 miles. Check 4-5 random nine-link samples, under tension, with a 0-6" caliper, across the pins as shown below, all dimensions in inches. New length is 5.825", when the measured length exceeds 5.912" replacement is needed.

Thanks for the spec. 1.5% 'wear'. 9 pins in play, and you are accounting for about 2mm of additional 'play' as a result of either the pins thinning, or the plate holes widening, right? If that were evenly distributed, about .2 mm per pin.... 4 thousandths of an inch per link?

5.825" = 148 mm
5.912" = 150.6 mm

I assume that's all based on the OEM 530 chain? 520 should be the same pin to pin, right?.... width and plate thickness both go down some...

Have you noted any wear at less than 10 or 15K miles?

How many chains have you tested, over what period?

 

[Rumpole of the Bailey]

We have a lot of road repairs and rebuilds down here in AussieLand. Silt seems to be my worst enemy in the chain dept.
Here is what I do.

Bike on centrestand and a 1" soft paint brush dipped in kerosene with heaps of rags and a drain pan under the chain. I gently degrease the chain and inspect it all over. degrease the rear sprocket as well.

I then wipe excess kero off the chain.
Get a bucket of hot water with mild detergent like say dishwashing liquid and paint it on the chain. This removes any excess kerop left.

Wipe the chain with a rag and remove all the soapy hot water. Spin the wheel to do this.

Let it dry.

I then take it for a brief ride up and down the street to get the chain warm.
I use BellRay lubricant in a can and spray it on the bottom of the chain (part that connects to the sprocket) . I lube every 100miles.

My theory, a clean chain holds no surprises.
Good gear changes. No binding and max miles per gallon.

Rumpole

 

[Kriswithak]

I do mine every 500km's.
Get the back wheel in the air, and turn the wheel by hand to get the chain moving and wipe it down with a fibrous rag with some kero, keep going till the rag is coming up clean, then put on more lube. Been having issues with my current lube since it seems to heat up and fling off like anything, no matter how little I put on.
I avoid using a brush as I've heard they can damage the O ring seals.
I'm also on pretty good roads though so much much dirt etc

 

[abraxas]

I can't really add much, the advice given so far is excellent.

I use oil, plain old engine oil. I bought spray on chain wax, and 1 tin of lube later i had to replace chain and sprockets, that chain was fooked.

I'll try gear oil though, it should work better than engine oil. I just use a syringe, sit and turn the wheel, making sure oil gets into EVERY SINGLE LINK.

The upside is that i'm checking the chain once a week, and about every 2 months or so, i'll take it off the back sprocket, and immerse it in parafin (or kerosene) and work the link to ensure they haven't got grit or something inside.

It's a bit messy, but when i used chain lube the other problem was that the gunge that built up was impossible to remove. Oil just washes away with some detergent.

Tensioning is a bigger problem, as i'm a lightweight, but often pillion the wifey, who is quite a bit heavier. Those are 2 very different setups for the bike, and since i can't change chain tension / spring tension every ride, i tend to leave it at a default.

 

[Speedygonzales]

You guy's are like hardcore chain specialist ... :rockon:

I lube quite often, never clean.

If it's @ a good tension and aligned it's all good for me.

 

[RJ2112]

..........Also it's better to let the chain to be a bit loose rather than too tight.......

Couldn't agree more, Wasp. The only pulling force you want to have on the chain should come from either acceleration, or slowing.... not from the swingarm pivoting. The swingarm is over 2 feet long on the FZ6; that's one heck of a crowbar to pull on the chain with. Not to mention the bearings on the tranny output shaft......