Triples, Twins, That's All

[FZSexy]

I was reading some forums and turns out it's true. Yamaha will no longer offer inline four engines in it's sport bike segment. Of course SS and Superbike application will remain, and things like the FZ1 and FJR1300. But the 600cc and 800cc and all it's models are gone.

Seems many say good riddance, too. Lot's of riders seem to like the new bikes. A triple and twin so far, and it looks like it is going to stay that way. And no Japanese maker (or otherwise, it would seem) has a 600cc I4 in a entry level bike in the U.S. Sure you can still get the liter bike in all sorts of models, but that is not a bike for all.

How do fellow FZ6 riders feel about this? Do you want 600cc bikes that are not SS, such as the FZ6? Will this be the "end" of the inline four in more standard / sport motorcycles?

What do you think of the direction Yamaha has taken? Did WE not like the FZ line with the I4's? I mean we ride one! Or two or three, in some cases. Will this be our last 600cc bike, too. Outside a Supersport, I mean.

I have read how twin engines have more "character" and the triples even more so. Some riders say 600cc engines are "soulless," and they love the thump 'n torque of a twin. Some say our bikes are weak down low. I'll give 'em that. But above 5000rpm it's a blast, and you have 9,000 more rpm right there, waiting.

It is a high revving bike, it wants to go fast. I thought that was called a good motorcycle?

Honda has a new inline four bike, the CB650F. How do you all think that will fare? I read it's to be a "world bike." However it's engine of choice would seem to be somewhat unfashionable in the world right now. Does that bike interest you?

It has the right kind of motor, at least :Sport:

 

[Water Bear]

The engine in the fz6 itself sacrificed horsepower for torque, presumably to make the bike more rideable.

My assumption is that engines have been trending towards more torque and less horsepower for some time. If you aren't on a racetrack, torque more or less beats horsepower, especially since power to weight ratios on motorcycles are already astronomical compared to cars.

I'm not sure how I feel about it per se, but it seems to make a lot of sense to do away with engines optimized for top end power when your application is not racing.

Edit: I should add that I am assuming that triples and twins are better optimized for torque, with lower horsepower. Engines like on the fz-09 develop similar horsepower numbers but obviously have a 300 cc bump in displacement.

Double Edit: I should also add that a recent thread revealed that our bikes are capable of 100+ mph speeds in something like third gear; So basically no one redlines above third gear on the street. That kind of horsepower just isn't useful off the race track.

 

[Goop]

I enjoyed the FZ6 when I owned it, but I went with a inline 3 and it's incredible. The low end torque is awesome and I'll never go back.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I haven't ridden enough bikes with the other configurations to reply to those thoughts, but I've ridden single cylinder vehicles and my current FZ6. And while I don't often find myself above 8k rpm's, I still feel like the bike can easily get out of it's own way. And with that said, I still have 6k more in the rpm range if I really needed it.

To me, there is something about having all that extra power on tap when I want it, and still not needing it. One problem I'm thinking is that maybe my impression of the bike comes from the fact that this is my first real motorcycle. I've ridden dirt bikes and atv's (both 2 and 4 stroke), but this is my first motorcycle, which I know a lot of people think is a no-no because of the size (and I'll gladly take flak for that). But I think this size and configuration for a motorcycle is a great way to get into the sport.

Down low, it's a very useable commuting vehicle. Up high, it screams and makes you seriously think about whether you should be that high in the rpm band. It's very sobering to me to know that I have such a potential monster in between my legs, and it keeps me more under control. If this market segment didn't exist, I think people would be too keen to move from 250 bikes straight to really torque-y liter bikes which they would not be ready for.

And as an aside, getting a "sport touring" bike instead of a sport bike was a great decision (and should be more common for new riders) because it's much more comfortable and I think mentally it leads to more conservative riding.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The trend in general for the mid sized bikes has been the 3 cylinder engine in recent years.

Its not quite as wide, cheaper to build. Yamaha's competing with Triumphs, etc.

IMO, that's fine..

As posted above, the 04-09 FZ6's offer the best of both worlds.

Your can ride it tame down low, or open it up (especially with aftermarket pipes) and easily get into the triple digits.

The newer FZ6, with the lower HP, etc, just increases the value of mine as that does make a difference for someone looking for a fast, mid sized, upright seating bike..

Most 3 cylinders aren't going to rev to 14,000 and wind up as such. If I wanted a torque monster, I'd pick up a an older Honda 1800 V twin.

If I wrecked this bike, I'd pick up another FJR (2014) but I really don't do anymore LD riding. Its a VERY fun bike to ride, can get you in trouble VERY FAST (HP/speed wise). With that HP and torque, count on a new rear tire every 5,000 miles too. Unfortunatly, the more goodies you have on it, linked brakes, ABS, True cruise control, all the plastic, makes maintainance considerably much more involved than the semi naked/naked FZ. It is considerably heavier, fine once underway but maneauvering slow or pushing around in the garage, much harder than the FZ.

Remember the Kawasaki 500 / 750, 2 cycle, 3 cylinder twins? Some of the fastest bikes of the day (being a 2 stroke and a screamer) and a highly sought after bike now. The RD350's/400's, RZ's, the same.. Very difficult to find and you'll pay top $ for it..

Once most manufacturers eliminate the 600c 4 banger, IMO, it'll be worth more for someone who wants the performance, (high RPM grin factor) without the extra weight.

 

[Carlos840]

Could it be a product of fuel prices going up?

Most people who use a bike to commute want good mileage. From experience i can tell you that if you ride the FZ6 in the power band you will struggle to get more than 35mpg which is pretty bad.
A twin or a triple doesn't have to be kept so high in the rpm range to work and will probably give you a better gas mileage.

Personally i find it a bit sad, i love the Jekyll and Hyde personality of the inline 4 and i find it great that we can have it in a comfortable package. I have never tried a triple, but have tried a twin and hated it, i felt like i was riding a diesel truck.

I really hope the I4 doesn't disappear outside of the super sport models, not that i have any plans to change bikes any time soon.

 

[FIZZER6]

From someone who owns both a high revving FZ6 and a newer Victory cruiser with a massive 1636cc V-twin I can tell you that the V-twin is a much easier bike to ride for the fact that you don't have to worry about shifting much, it always has plenty of torque once the RPMS are over 2,000! Because of this with a 6-speed transmission the motor is only turning at about 2,600 rpms at 70 mph! Is smoother at speed and much quieter than the high revving I-4 on the highway and because of the low engine load on the highway that massive cruiser gets 45-52 mpg! Better than most FZ6's!

There's a time and a place for each type of engine. The I-4 is a blast in the twisties But the V-twin is a much better open highway configuration.

 

[Don't Panic]

I don't know about the twin, but now that I have ridden and own the FZ09, I can see exactly why Yamaha is switching to these motors. There's always torque wherever you are in the rev range, it combines the horsepower of I4s with the torque of twins, and my God... that exhaust note is amazing!

I loved my FZ6, but as soon as I did the Yamaha demo day and rode the 09, I was hooked.

 

[2wheelieadv]

I don't know about the twin, but now that I have ridden and own the FZ09, I can see exactly why Yamaha is switching to these motors. There's always torque wherever you are in the rev range, it combines the horsepower of I4s with the torque of twins, and my God... that exhaust note is amazing!

I loved my FZ6, but as soon as I did the Yamaha demo day and rode the 09, I was hooked.

Agree. It is an excellent bike. However to make it suitable for long distance rides it has to be "complete" with ABS, better passenger sit, screen...
Otherwise it just stay a "local rides" bike and you'll need a different one for LD. To me FZ6 does it all. FJR is not for me as it' heavy, big and all that, so if the new FJ-09 will go that way, I think that can become an ultimate machine...

 

[dschult2]

Agree. It is an excellent bike. However to make it suitable for long distance rides it has to be "complete" with ABS, better passenger sit, screen...
Otherwise it just stay a "local rides" bike and you'll need a different one for LD. To me FZ6 does it all. FJR is not for me as it' heavy, big and all that, so if the new FJ-09 will go that way, I think that can become an ultimate machine...

+1 on this one. I so want to get the FZ-09 but after recently riding my buddies naked Kawasaki ZRX 1200 I couldn't stand the wind buffeting. I don't want full fairings either but a little half fairing like on the FZ6 or FZ1 would be great. I'm looking forward to see what the FJ-09 will look like.

 

[Water Bear]

+1 on this one. I so want to get the FZ-09 but after recently riding my buddies naked Kawasaki ZRX 1200 I couldn't stand the wind buffeting. I don't want full fairings either but a little half fairing like on the FZ6 or FZ1 would be great. I'm looking forward to see what the FJ-09 will look like.

Hold on a sec...is there really an FJ-09 in the works?

Edit: Holy moly it's true. FJ-09 patented in the US. Here's to hoping they put a huge wind screen on that thing!

 

[ChanceCoats123]

From someone who owns both a high revving FZ6 and a newer Victory cruiser with a massive 1636cc V-twin I can tell you that the V-twin is a much easier bike to ride for the fact that you don't have to worry about shifting much, it always has plenty of torque once the RPMS are over 2,000! Because of this with a 6-speed transmission the motor is only turning at about 2,600 rpms at 70 mph! Is smoother at speed and much quieter than the high revving I-4 on the highway and because of the low engine load on the highway that massive cruiser gets 45-52 mpg! Better than most FZ6's!

There's a time and a place for each type of engine. The I-4 is a blast in the twisties But the V-twin is a much better open highway configuration.

While I don't rev my bike out like crazy, 80 on the speedo is around 5k in sixth gear. I got 48mpg on my last tank of 91 octane which was half city and half highway. That sounds like pretty good mileage to me. I can see easily getting over 50 with consistent highway traveling.

I do understand what you're saying about the loudness at speed though. When you're in the 5k range for two hours on the highway, it can get a little annoying if you're not in the mood.

 

[Motogiro]

I ride the SV1000 which is really a 996cc short stroke 90 deg twin with a red line of 11,000 rpm. The concept of doing work at lower rpm is great in many types of riding in the turns as well as in the city. I've experienced love with every type of motor I've ridden. I guess I just love motorcycles! Once you exploit the type of technology your using you really appreciate the characteristic of each motor.
I think the triple design is going to take hold because you have the inline smoothness that you'd experience with the I4 but with larger pistons per displacement which will provide better torque.
If Yamaha comes out with an 'FZ6 like' bike with a triple they will surely have a top seller.

 

[JayyVee]

I don't want full fairings either but a little half fairing like on the FZ6 or FZ1 would be great. I'm looking forward to see what the FJ-09 will look like.

That's my take on Yammie's line these days, looking forward to seeing the new FJ-09 as well. Dunno if Aftermarket will be able to craft fairings or not as they have in the past - but this is what I'd like too..

Something with the ummph of the FZ-09 but with at least half fairings to split the wind up some. FZ6 with 09 engine please?

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Why is ABS such a big deal to people? Is it people that don't know how to properly apply pressure? Or is it just easier to get a hand full of front and let the computer work it out?

In A mode the fz09 torque starts at 1Rpm. So that mean we have 10999 more to go .

If you can stand the 3-4gear power wheelie and will leave you with everything but a drivers license.

I like I4 I like them a lot knowing I can out sprint them.

 

[FIZZER6]

While I don't rev my bike out like crazy, 80 on the speedo is around 5k in sixth gear. I got 48mpg on my last tank of 91 octane which was half city and half highway. That sounds like pretty good mileage to me. I can see easily getting over 50 with consistent highway traveling.

I do understand what you're saying about the loudness at speed though. When you're in the 5k range for two hours on the highway, it can get a little annoying if you're not in the mood.

Is your FZ6 stock? Have you actually changed the display to display the RPMS in numerical form? My 2006 is stock and at 80 mph it's doing more like 7,000 rpms in 6th gear. 70 mph is right at 6,000 rpms. The FZ6 is much louder and much more "buzzy" above 6000 rpms which is where you are on the highway over 70 mph.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Is your FZ6 stock? Have you actually changed the display to display the RPMS in numerical form? My 2006 is stock and at 80 mph it's doing more like 7,000 rpms in 6th gear. 70 mph is right at 6,000 rpms. The FZ6 is much louder and much more "buzzy" above 6000 rpms which is where you are on the highway over 70 mph.

Totally stock and I did change the display to show the numerical rpm. Maybe my numbers were a little off, I don't often highway ride, but I definitely wasn't in the well known buzz range.

And the same weekend that I did highway riding, I was doing some high rpm city riding. I think over 50 mpg is easily achievable on this bike. We'll see how my mileage does once I get my exhaust though.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Totally stock and I did change the display to show the numerical rpm. Maybe my numbers were a little off, I don't often highway ride, but I definitely wasn't in the well known buzz range.

And the same weekend that I did highway riding, I was doing some high rpm city riding. I think over 50 mpg is easily achievable on this bike. We'll see how my mileage does once I get my exhaust though.

I get the same mileage you do around town with stock gearing, about 48MPG with open Scorpion pipes...

My old FJR would get about 42-44 highway/city.

 

[iSteve]

That's my take on Yammie's line these days, looking forward to seeing the new FJ-09 as well. Dunno if Aftermarket will be able to craft fairings or not as they have in the past - but this is what I'd like too..

Something with the ummph of the FZ-09 but with at least half fairings to split the wind up some. FZ6 with 09 engine please?

I agree, although I don't mind naked bikes I find a small faring pretty useful in the rain or on real cold days.

Also as I get older I find it annoying to have to downshift anytime you want to pass a car. And I'm not about to be cursing at 8k + just so I can always be ready to pass a car.

This is my fourth year on the FZ6 and I still love it but my next bike will be something with some low end grunt.

 

[FZSexy]

From someone who owns both a high revving FZ6 and a newer Victory cruiser with a massive 1636cc V-twin I can tell you that the V-twin is a much easier bike to ride for the fact that you don't have to worry about shifting much, it always has plenty of torque once the RPMS are over 2,000! Because of this with a 6-speed transmission the motor is only turning at about 2,600 rpms at 70 mph! Is smoother at speed and much quieter than the high revving I-4 on the highway and because of the low engine load on the highway that massive cruiser gets 45-52 mpg! Better than most FZ6's!

There's a time and a place for each type of engine. The I-4 is a blast in the twisties But the V-twin is a much better open highway configuration.

well of course! you have 1000 more cc under you with that VTwin. i have read the same of 1000cc I4's. its all about that torque. so size = HP and torque, it would seem

and it would also seem three cylinders = more torque but as much HP as a 600cc I4 in a somewhat bigger engine size. i'm no engineer but it all makes sense in layman terms

that said when talking 600cc to 650cc sport bikes (are those going away?) i LIKE the I4. i'd take it against "old" competition like the SV650 or Ninja 650 or Duc Monster any day of the week. torque? the FZ6 has enough and is a riot over 6K, let's face it. imo an I4 is just a "sportier" set up and not as busy or buzzy as many would lead to believe

is a bigger engine or one with three cylinders smoother or just as powerful, or what have you? sure. but is an I4 an engine with character all its own? i think so. and against its true competition (similar cc TWINS) i'd take it every time if the bike we're selling me on performance