Riding Double / Two Up

[sFoster]

I've only been riding a month now (i know!), but I'm considering giving my GF a ride from her work back home to her house.. it's only a couple of miles and 1-2 turns at traffic lights across some totally straight, well maintained suburban roads.

It seems safe, and she is really tiny so there's not much added weight.
Is this irresponsible of me to consider? I don't want get her hurt.

And lastly, what are your thoughts on more general two-up riding in everyday conditions. Is 2,000 thousand solo-miles sufficient experience? 5,000?

I tried asking one of my MSF instructors this question and he said to wait a year. A year! That just seems so long, and vague. I think it was more him being over exaggerative in a "just in case" sort of way.

Obviously some people will get a lot more riding done in a year than others. (especially considering I live in MD; not quite a climate like CA)

 

[Ghost Weim]

I have been riding for almost a year now - and will not even consider taking on a passenger. It has taken quite a few miles to get me just where I am today. But, I guess the decision is really up to you.

And, please don't take this wrong - because I am really not trying to be mean but be very honest, but if I knew you had only been riding for a month and offered me a ride, I would politely decline. Even though the road you would be taking her on sounds relatively benign, you never know when something will pop out at you or when a car will do something very dumb in front of you.

 

[n1one]

Tough question......

First....does she have proper gear? If not, then don't put her on that bike until she does! Period!

Second...how confident are you in your riding skills? I know that after 2000 miles, I did NOT feel capable of riding with a passanger...mostly because I did not have enough..oh s**t moments to know how to get out of trouble when I was a lone, never mind with a passanger to worry about.

It's your call, but if it was me....I would wait until you have more time.

Later,

 

[jmerch44]

Only you know what your capable of. I wouldn't recommend it, But I think I only had three months riding when I put my wife on the back. If your asking, your probably gonna do it anyway, so I'm gonna give you advise instead of telling you what you're capable of. First, have her drive to a parking lot ( you ride). when you get there, practice low speed maneuvers with her on the back. This is your biggest two up challenge IMHO. Your gonna want to have frame sliders, and gear for her (boots). When you get that down, educate her on passenger behavior. Dont tell her when not to move, tell her when she can move. I tell my wife that she can only adjust herself on straights after a warning via tap on shoulder. If you tell her when she cant move, your gonna leave something out and she is gonna start thinking for herself mid trip and surprise you. make sure she understands that she has to pay just as much attention to her surroundings as you do. she needs to be prepared to turn and stop when you are. But, yo also have to make sure she understands not to anticipate anything, that can mess you up too. DO NOT TRY TO IMPRESS HER! as soon as you do, your gonna go down. Be prepared to have your bubble invaded until you can make her understand she needs to be relaxed on the bike and give you room to operate it. Be safe and she'll love it. If you think you can manage all this, then go for it. Life is short and adrenaline is the antidote.:rockon:

 

[VEGASRIDER]

10,000 miles on a bike before you go two up if you're a new rider.

I say that because it allows you a chance for you to really get to know your bike as far as your riding capabilities. But more importantly, it gives you enough miles for you to get comfortable on your riding stategy. You need to know How and Where to look at all times where it comes so natural to you that a car pulling out of a hdden driveway won't even be a surprise.

 

[jreese86]

I'd say the important thing is being confident on your bike by yourself. If you make common mistakes often, just think how having 100lbs+ on the back of your bike will increase the consequences.

I have been riding since May of last year. Only had roughly 1200 miles last year though, and I didn't attempt any two-up riding obviously. This year I've had about 4000 miles in 4 months. I just started riding two-up with my fiance about 2 months ago. It took a little getting used to, so parking lot practice is good to get you used to it. Since I've been riding two-up, I've felt fairly comfortable with her on the back. I just make sure to ride defensively and keep in mind that if I screw up, it's not just me suffering the effects.

 

[LittleRed]

I've been riding for about a year now and I pulled a rather stupid move a while back to help bail a friend out of a possibly bad situation- he was pretty much stranded and to avoid getting him in trouble with his demon of a step mother, the only option was to give him a ride home. Only problems- my bike at the time was incapable of safely riding two up and second, I'd never given a ride to anyone before. The one way out was borrowing my friend's bike which was in the same location (a Honda VTX1300 that I had ridden for about 50 miles total on a previous occasion) and taking him home on that. He had gear, so that wasn't a problem, but I was scared to death having the safety of another person completely in my hands... We made it there just fine and it was a smooth ride, but his nervousness at how green of a rider I was put me on edge (as did mine)...

I swore after that to not take a passenger until I'd logged at least 10,000 miles. It's such a risk to take and even now I still have to use all of my available skill to keep my own skin intact, let alone another person's. And after downing my bike for the first time I'm even more hesitant about passengers...

It's different for everyone in terms of your comfort level, but you can't account for what people in the cars around you will do and nothing aside from time in the saddle can prepare you for how to react safely and calmly to that kind of thing. Just my 2 cents as a fellow new rider...

 

[Nelly]

Only you know what your capable of. I wouldn't recommend it, But I think I only had three months riding when I put my wife on the back. If your asking, your probably gonna do it anyway, so I'm gonna give you advise instead of telling you what you're capable of. First, have her drive to a parking lot ( you ride). when you get there, practice low speed maneuvers with her on the back. This is your biggest two up challenge IMHO. Your gonna want to have frame sliders, and gear for her (boots). When you get that down, educate her on passenger behavior. Dont tell her when not to move, tell her when she can move. I tell my wife that she can only adjust herself on straights after a warning via tap on shoulder. If you tell her when she cant move, your gonna leave something out and she is gonna start thinking for herself mid trip and surprise you. make sure she understands that she has to pay just as much attention to her surroundings as you do. she needs to be prepared to turn and stop when you are. But, yo also have to make sure she understands not to anticipate anything, that can mess you up too. DO NOT TRY TO IMPRESS HER! as soon as you do, your gonna go down. Be prepared to have your bubble invaded until you can make her understand she needs to be relaxed on the bike and give you room to operate it. Be safe and she'll love it. If you think you can manage all this, then go for it. Life is short and adrenaline is the antidote.:rockon:

This is a brilliant post, It sums up some great advice. I would just add that you need to really consider how differently the bike will handle. The brakes won't be as sharp, stopping distances will be longer. Turn in will require more input.

In reality even the riders with thousands of miles under their belts do not have a pillion on a regular basis. I have had two pillions this year. Both times I also needed to adjust the rear shock and needed a good twenty minutes to compensate for the different feel and characteristics of my bike.
Has your missus ever ridden on a bike before? It's not as simple as just sitting there, you need to ride in a way that allows her to feel comfortable and relaxed. There is nothing worse than being pillion to a rider, who is trying to show you how fast and flickable his bike is. The pillion has the ability to make your bike sit upright when you don't need it to.
Work out if you prefer her to hold the grab rail or you. When I first started riding I preferred the pillion to hold me.
Good luck and take your time.

A great thread people with some very good responses.

Nelly

 

[Stumbles06]

Some grat posts here, take note sFoster, all good points, and worth while having a good think about.

:rockon:

 

[Doorag]

I took my wife for a ride the first day I got the 'big' bike. At that time I had about 2K mikes under my belt. I wasn't too comfortable, but I did it (and she had full gear so that helped) anyway. After that, we started doing short blasts around the countryside on the weekends for an hour or two at a time and I we were both able to work out how to ride together - for example, she learned how to read the road so she could predict what I was going to do and she was able to position herself accordingly. This makes a huge difference. Don't underestimate the importance of having an experienced pillion. It might be a good idea to start off with someone who has ridden on the back of a bike before so they will be a good rider (snigger) which will make things easier for you.

That's a bit rambling, sorry but I hope it made some sense.

 

[Andz]

I've been riding two up since day one. I would say that two up riding exceeds 95% of my total time on the bike.

My wife is a brilliant passenger, most of the time I don't even know she is there. She has total confidence in me and the bike so even in the twisties she feels totally neutral and has no effect on the handling. A nervous passenger can toss you in the weeds without warning.

 

[sFoster]

After reading this thread, I will defniitely practice slow speed in the parking lot with somebody before I enter traffic. Whenever that time may be.

I'm considering buying a piece of luggage for the back and throwing 100lbs worth of junk weight onto the fizzer. It will give me a chance to practice riding around with different accel/decel but without the risk of a passenger squirming mid turn.

 

[oldfast007]

A possible easier way to look at it...Switch roles, you are the passenger to be, she is the NEW operator, knowing your(her) skill level and experience would you get on the back? or would prefer someone with more miles and couple of close calls under their belt?

Just my 2, good luck...

 

[sFoster]

A possible easier way to look at it...Switch roles, you are the passenger to be, she is the NEW operator, knowing your(her) skill level and experience would you get on the back? or would prefer someone with more miles and couple of close calls under their belt?

Just my 2, good luck...

Not quite a fair comparison, but an interesting mental exercise. Thanks.
I think a lot of factors go into it.. general coordination and athletic ability.
Awareness, caution, and general accuracy of prediction concerning other people on the road.

But mostly, I've been driving a car for 10 years now.. I've never been in an accident. She is only just now getting around to earning her license!

Her general road experience almost non existent..
But she does have plenty of experience riding on the back of her uncles moto

 

[sFoster]

I never really said it, but thanks for everyone that has responding.
It's all taken under serious consideration.

 

[MarinaFazer]

I learned on a Honda Rebel 250 with my 200lb dad on the back...

if YOU are comfortable then it will be fine. Any doubts...don't do it.

 

[Dougness86]

I started 2 upping around 3000 miles. While I managed not to crash, it was not a great idea right off the bat. I started with a newb passenger and was fairly newb myself, this was not good. However I am still under 10000 miles and now I 2 up with my GF about 50% of the time. She has become a spectacular passenger and I feel I am as safe with her on the back as I am on my own (partly because i take less risks when she is on the back).

My opinion, decide how comfortable you are on your own, if you feel your ready, then find an experienced passenger first and start o so slow.

BTW you learn to caress that rear brake like the woman on the back at slow speeds.

 

[Aleziel]

dont ask us, ask yourself! are you confident enough riding 2 up? also, since its your girlfirend, you can start slow, just tell her youre learing the bike. take her 4 blocks away from your home and come back. next day abit more. see if you feel too unbalanced, have a low speed and practice the basics. starting, stopping, turning.

 

[FazerNYC]

Only you know what your capable of. I wouldn't recommend it, But I think I only had three months riding when I put my wife on the back. If your asking, your probably gonna do it anyway, so I'm gonna give you advise instead of telling you what you're capable of. First, have her drive to a parking lot ( you ride). when you get there, practice low speed maneuvers with her on the back. This is your biggest two up challenge IMHO. Your gonna want to have frame sliders, and gear for her (boots). When you get that down, educate her on passenger behavior. Dont tell her when not to move, tell her when she can move. I tell my wife that she can only adjust herself on straights after a warning via tap on shoulder. If you tell her when she cant move, your gonna leave something out and she is gonna start thinking for herself mid trip and surprise you. make sure she understands that she has to pay just as much attention to her surroundings as you do. she needs to be prepared to turn and stop when you are. But, yo also have to make sure she understands not to anticipate anything, that can mess you up too. DO NOT TRY TO IMPRESS HER! as soon as you do, your gonna go down. Be prepared to have your bubble invaded until you can make her understand she needs to be relaxed on the bike and give you room to operate it. Be safe and she'll love it. If you think you can manage all this, then go for it. Life is short and adrenaline is the antidote.:rockon:

Excellent advice above. Also practice SMOOTH gear shifting, both accel and on decel. You have to master feathering the clutch and try and deal with the jerkiness of the FZ6 throttle. Much of the challenge will be on deceleration. Be in the right gear to match road speed because your braking will require added distance to make it less abrupt for the passenger (master smooth engine braking). You will have to nudge your passsenger back when, after hard breaking, back to her portion of the seat because now she's in your portion (she can place one hand on your back in these situations). Avoid her faceshield clunking on the back of your helmet. When you come to a stop, put both feet down... if the passenger wiggles, your going to lose your balance and drop. Also have both feet down when she climbs on and off -- maybe even hold the front brake. Adjust the rear spring pre-load to six or 7.

 

[delafz6]

practice SMOOTH gear shifting, both accel and on decel. You have to master feathering the clutch and try and deal with the jerkiness of the FZ6 throttle.

+1


Ive had the bike for about a month and I put only about 500 miles put on it. ( Ive ridden MX for 4 years....the best way to learn to ride IMO). Its all in your riding ability... I started slow in a HUGE parking lot with the gf on back to get a feel to the weight, acceleration and leaning. You must stiffen the rear shock depending on weight and caress the rear brake to prevent the front shock dip and the passenger suddenly shifting foward. Having a passenger IS NOT the most comfortable way to ride and we rarely ride tandem. Our first ride was only about 10 miles on a country road with little traffic. Today, our second was about 90 miles and had no problems except for that fact that the bike is not as nimple.