Rear brake, do you use it?

[Erci]

I use rear brake in slow speed situations (u-turns, traffic, etc). I also use it when I ride 2-up (much lower chance of locking up the rear with passenger on the back and using just the front with that much weight on the bike makes for longer stopping distances).
I occasionally rear-trail-brake. I do not use it for emergency stops. Sport bikes are light and have tremendously strong front brakes. In an emergency stop, it's easy to have 100% of the weight transferred to the front (yes.. rear wheel can lift). From my experience, FZ6 is definitely one of the bikes where rear-wheel lock-up is very easy to achieve without trying. I'm not saying that everyone else should stop using rear brake.. I'm just stating what works for me.
Both David Hough and late Larry Grodsky mention in their books that it's ok to use just the front brake on certain bikes.

 

[x47b3207]

I use them both. In an emergency, you will do what you practice. And using both brakes will stop you faster. Every ride, I typically will do one hard practice stop. This stop also reminds me that today I may need to really use it.

 

[Erci]

using both brakes will stop you faster

Provided you don't lock up the rear wheel. Fish-tailing is not a good way to come to a quick stop.

 

[nextfriday]

Rear for slow speed maneuvering and both for typical stopping. Using only one or the other exclusively is a bad habit.

 

[krid80]

Provided you don't lock up the rear wheel. Fish-tailing is not a good way to come to a quick stop.

sounds to me like you are a little gun shy of the rear brake. perhaps you need to go practice locking up the rear brake and then modulating it in order to become accustomed to how the bike reacts.

I have slid my back tire from 80-0 and didn't fishtail much at all. In fact, my skid mark showed that when the bike started to fishtail slightly, I released and reapplied the rear brake to settle the suspension.


Locking the rear tire does not mean you will fishtail. Fishtail is a result of a locked rear wheel and steering input of some kind (including compensating for uneven pavement). When it is time to change your rear tire, go find an abandoned road and slide some long stripes on it. If it starts to wiggle, release and immediately reapply. Doing that will straighten up a minor misalignment of the front and rear tire. Don't get so crazy you end up low or high siding, though. Be smart!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

For those who consistently only use the front brake, you are creating muscle memory.

And when there comes a time that you need to use the rear brake, it won't be there because you are so use to applying only the front brake. Gravel, emergency stops, etc, you name it, there are times when you need to use the rear brake, and it can be the difference of you maintaining control and not crashing.

As Defy said, practice, practice, practice.

 

[Erci]

For those who consistently only use the front brake, you are creating muscle memory.

Exactly! This is why I practice quick stops with front brake only, every time I ride. I used to practice quick stops with both brakes a LOT and I felt like I had excellent control in the parking lot. I still would lock up the rear wheel several times in rear world situations though.

From Twist of the Throttle II by Keith Code:

It is my recommendation that you master using only the front brake except when riding in slippery conditions. Locking the back brake also puts the bike out of control. The rear wheel, spinning, provides the vast majority of stability for the bike from the steering head back. In other words, everything but the front end is kept stable by the gyro force of the spinning rear wheel.

The obvious mathematics of the situation are that the front wheel can do 100% of the braking and the back at that point just locks up no matter who you are. Learn to totally rely on the front brake for quick, clean stopping; then, if you still have a use for the rear, go ahead and use it. But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track. I'll leave the final decision up to you. While it is true that a motorcycle will come to a full stop quicker with both brakes applied, in racing, you don't come to a full stop until you're done.

I don't have Grodsky's or Hough's books with me, but here's an interesting article:
Extreme Leverage

I know MSF advocates the use of both brakes for quick stops. They also tell BRC graduates that 650cc is a good small bike to start on. They fail to mention that 650cc cruiser is not the same thing as a 650cc sport bike.
I would absolutely use rear brake on a cruiser and on the 125cc Suzuki's / 250 Nighthawks they use in classes.

I am not trying to convert anyone to front-brake-only. I am just saying that it's perfectly acceptable and it *may* actually prevent a crash.
If you've trained your muscles to use front+rear and you can lock up the rear, release and reapply and do this in real world, that's fantastic! I am not that gifted, I guess and I know full well that if the tail steps out enough and you release the rear brake your chances of high siding are very high. This is why MSF does NOT teach release-reapply technique.. they tell students to keep the rear locked up until they come to full stop.

 

[dad24hungrykids]

I use both..I typically wear the rear pads out before the fronts. a lot of that is from riding in slow traffic where I try not to completely stop. also, if you ride on gravel roads you will find that using the front brake alone to stop or slow isn't very safe.

 

[Iethius]

I always use my rear brake. It will load both the front and rear suspension. eliminates alot of dive. if used properly and lightly into a turn. you have a greater percent of braking available for the front tire.

I use the crear brake lots....especially when Sports riding, great way of settling the bike down.

Also use it lots at low speed, much nicer than having the front end dive, when your coming to a gentle stop at traffic lights.

:thumbup:

I had my suspicions about this, thanks.


Great find on those articles Erci.

Now that you guys mention it there are times I use it more. 2 up is a great example. Gravel lots - rear almost entirely. When braking on painted stripes, or oily patches at intersections. Slow turns......

THANK YOU EVERYONE for the input, forum riders are the best.

:thumbup:

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Exactly! This is why I practice quick stops with front brake only, every time I ride. I used to practice quick stops with both brakes a LOT and I felt like I had excellent control in the parking lot. I still would lock up the rear wheel several times in rear world situations though.

From Twist of the Throttle II by Keith Code:



I don't have Grodsky's or Hough's books with me, but here's an interesting article:
Extreme Leverage

I know MSF advocates the use of both brakes for quick stops. They also tell BRC graduates that 650cc is a good small bike to start on. They fail to mention that 650cc cruiser is not the same thing as a 650cc sport bike.
I would absolutely use rear brake on a cruiser and on the 125cc Suzuki's / 250 Nighthawks they use in classes.

I am not trying to convert anyone to front-brake-only. I am just saying that it's perfectly acceptable and it *may* actually prevent a crash.
If you've trained your muscles to use front+rear and you can lock up the rear, release and reapply and do this in real world, that's fantastic! I am not that gifted, I guess and I know full well that if the tail steps out enough and you release the rear brake your chances of high siding are very high. This is why MSF does NOT teach release-reapply technique.. they tell students to keep the rear locked up until they come to full stop.

You have to remember, the MSF BRC is just providing the basic fundamentals! We keep things simple.

So when we are teaching how a new rider can stop in the shortest amount of distance, we tell them to use both brakes. Even Keith Code has acknowledged it provides the shortest stopping distance.

"While it is true that a motorcycle will come to a full stop quicker with both brakes applied, in racing, you don't come to a full stop until you're done."

I'm sure everyone can agree that we are not applying racing applications out on the streets.

 

[michael_p]

I used the rear brake, the other day :thumbup:


When I changed the front sprocket to at 15t

 

[cap'n]

I lowered the pedal one spline on the sprocket too, to make it harder to lock up, and have used it effectively ever since. U-turns are MUCH easier if you just ease on that rear at the right moment - it's much much easier to turn the front wheel without the front brakes on. Takes a little practice.

 

[Erci]

You have to remember, the MSF BRC is just providing the basic fundamentals! We keep things simple.

So when we are teaching how a new rider can stop in the shortest amount of distance, we tell them to use both brakes. Even Keith Code has acknowledged it provides the shortest stopping distance.

"While it is true that a motorcycle will come to a full stop quicker with both brakes applied, in racing, you don't come to a full stop until you're done."

I'm sure everyone can agree that we are not applying racing applications out on the streets.

Agree @ basic fundamentals and yes, Keith agrees that stopping distance is shortest with both brakes, but from the same comment I posted:

But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track.

 

[cap'n]

Big advertisement here for a good abs system, then, I guess...?

 

[krid80]

Agree @ basic fundamentals and yes, Keith agrees that stopping distance is shortest with both brakes, but from the same comment I posted:

But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track.

I think this statement is pretty brash and incorrect. I would, however, agree with it if he had only added three words: "improper use of"

But realize that improper use of the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track.

The rear brake does not cause an accident.... ever. There is some other factor that allows a locked rear wheel to cause an accident. That could be panic due to a merging vehicle, excessive speed in a corner, an animal in the road, or some other outside stimulus. The rear brake, however, is never the "source of a huge number of crashes". I believe the point the writer is trying to make is "in situations where locking the rear brake ends in a crash, proper use of the rear brake, or not using the rear brake could have avoided the crash." This paraphrase hopefully outlines the difference between cause and contributing factors. Misuse of the rear brake may contribute to an accident, but never causes it.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track.

Which means that riders need to practice using the rear brakes. It's there for a reason, learn how to use it to your advantage.

 

[Erci]

Home now and have access to books I previously mentioned. Make your own conclusions:

Stayin' Safe by Lawrence Grodsky:

"MSF materials state that 70 percent of a bike's stopping force comes from its front brake and 30 percent from its rear. This is probably a reasonable average, but the exact ratio is a product of several factors: motorcycle length and weight, rapidity of braking, coefficient of friction (pad/rotor and tire/road) and, of course, rider technique. In my experience, laying off the rear brake during all-out 60 mph braking lengthens minimum stopping distances by 15 to 20 percent for long, heavy machines. For shorter, lighter-weight bikes, distances are virtually unaffected."

Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough:

"Highside flips are simple to avoid. Just stay in the habit of using more front brake than rear brake all the time. Lightweight sportbikes are particularly susceptible to rear-wheel skids because the weight bias is often more on the front wheel, yet the rear brake is typically a powerful hydraulic disc. When the rear brake is applied on a light sportbike with just a s solo rider, it is very easy to skid the tire.
If you realize that your lightweight machine tends to slide the rear tire even with just a light dab of the pedal, ignore the rear brake and use just the front brake. A sliding tire has much less traction than a tire that's still rolling over the road surface."

 

[Erci]

It's there for a reason, learn how to use it to your advantage.

Agree 100%. We just seem to disagree on its advantages in some situations.

 

[BusyWeb]

I mostly use rear brake at the Low Speed situations along with front brake.

But over 40 mph speed, I rarely use rear break as main stopping purpose.
However, I, sometimes, apply rear break little bit when after the bike speed went down slower enough
or/and when I felt need more brake power to be stopped >> to help front brake.

Instead, I use engine-brake; aka, gear shifting; and front brake together most of time.
>> same break power but less skidding effects.
Front brake is my main stopping mechanism for my FZ6....
FZ6 rear brake works (is powerful) TOO GOOD TO BE SKID... ha ha ha

 

[buzzbomb]

This question has come up heaps over the years, and the answers have changed over the years as motorcycles have evolved. Old addages have become ineffective as technology has improved to the point where we're spoilt with braided brake lines, huge calipers, and ABS/electronic distribution.

ABS is being pushed by safety advocates to reduce lockups and help keep the rider in control. Without this, my best bet is to keep practicing emergency braking and learn the limits of tyre grip in different conditions.

I got caught out in a right hand corner (in Australia) where it tightened up on me, and I just had the wrong line to get around it safely. It completely tricked me, and I wasn't prepared for it. So I hit the brakes, to try and shave some speed off, while banked over. I think I was just running on panic mode for the few seconds it took, but I remember hitting both brakes, hearing the rear lock up, and then releasing and reapplying the brakes. Again, the rear brake locked, so I straightened the bike up, and ran across the oncoming lane, concentrating on the brakes. I got out of it ok, and kept the bike upright, but I was forced to cross an oncoming lane, which luckily for me was empty.

In hindsight I couldn't have done much more in the braking department, but rather concentrate at reading the corners, and setting up a proper entry speed.

I still practice emergency braking using both brakes, and also U turns using only the rear brake. In some ways we're lucky to have completely unlinked and conventional brakes, but it means we have to practice and learn the limits, and learn to modulate the brakes under different conditions.

BB