R6/CBR1100 combo question

[afpreppie04]

So I finally got my FZ back roadworthy(ish) again after my minor mishap back in January. I went ahead and put on my R6 forks/brakes and CBR1100x clipons on while I was putting everything back together. I took it out for a ride and have some concerns. Whenever I would hit even the smallest bump, be it tar snake or small pebble or anything, the steering would move an uncomfortable amount, enough to worry me. Is it just the R6 forks and I need to dial them in more? They are practically new and they have new 15wt fork fluid in them. Or is it maybe the clipons? I liked the position they gave when I first tried them on before the bike was running but when riding around they can mash my thumbs. Also I had to mount them above the triple, which meant bringing the forks up a good inch or 1.5 to mount the clipons. Could that maybe be throwing off the geometry too much?

Overall it made me not enjoy the short ride, worrying about each little bump possibly sending me off sideways. I'm sure some of this is just due to me not being on the bike for so long, but something was seriously off.

Any suggestions?

 

[CanadianFZ6]

Are the steering head bearings tight? Have you tightened all the front fork bolts? Correct tire pressure?

 

[Coopdman]

I'm no mechanic but you're right, something sounds off. If the bars are actually turning when you hit a bump, you might try dialing the forks so that both are dead even in the middle. If the settings aren't identical it will feel weird.

Turn an adjustment all the way to one direction, count the clicks as you go to the opposite direction, then turn them back so they're in the middle. This is no way to ride for good, but will tell you if it's the settings or not. I rode my 2001 R6 for a week before i knew to do this and it helped a lot. Over time, i dialed them in to what made it feel the best for my weight and riding style (always adjusting both sides the same amount).

Other than that, hopefully someone else has some ideas. I have no clue what else could be crooked, warped, out of line, etc... Good luck!

 

[n1one]

I would agree with your assessment, that the forks are too far up the triple tree clamps. Try going back to the stock bars and stock height on the forks. Then ride it and see if it cures your problem:Flash:

 

[necrotimus]

To give you an idea most people put their forks at 10mm above the triple... you have your at aprox 38mm above.

 

[Denver_FZ6]

Are the steering head bearings tight? Have you tightened all the front fork bolts? Correct tire pressure?

Yep, what Canadian said. Can you put bike on centerstand, then push/pull at front wheel, checking for slop in head bearings.
Also, has the headstock to ground distance changed? If you lowered the front end, you could have shortened the rake/trail, this would make the bike twitchy, possibley unstable.
Additionally, if you change the triple clamps to install the R6 forks, this could have also changed the rake/trail too.

 

[urbanj]

The further up you bring them the more unstable it will be.

unrelated but 15wt oil is probaby too heavy. 5wt is stock I believe. the oil is supposed to be thin and allowed to flow and the adjustments control the compression and rebound inside the fork. there is no fixed orifice. now your adjustments will be out of whack because it will be harder for the oil to flow at a specific setting. I guess you can try it at the lowest setting first and see.

 

[oso2k]

I have my forks about 1.25" above the triple. I would say that your axle, or steering stem, or triples, or bearings are loose. "Vagueness" in the frontend in a straight line tends to be the bearings.

 

[oso2k]

The further up you bring them the more unstable it will be.

unrelated but 15wt oil is probaby too heavy. 5wt is stock I believe. the oil is supposed to be thin and allowed to flow and the adjustments control the compression and rebound inside the fork. there is no fixed orifice. now your adjustments will be out of whack because it will be harder for the oil to flow at a specific setting. I guess you can try it at the lowest setting first and see.

I agree. Spoke with an AMA tuner a couple weeks ago, and even at 240lbs, he recommended never going above 7wt or 10wt oil. He said most suspension systems perform poorly with heavier weight fluids.

 

[afpreppie04]

Thanks for the advice. I might have to go get some lighter fluid. I just got the 15wt because thats what everyone says helps the FZ6 forks, and I read somewhere that the R6 suspension was also set up for jockey-sized people, so I figured being about 200 lbs the heavier weight couldn't hurt on the R6 forks either.

The forks are only up that high in the triples so that I can put the clipons on. They are flush at the top, so I'm not sure that I could lower them much without worrying about the clipons coming off in my hands. I am going to put the stock bar back on and lower the forks tonight to see if it helps any. I still have the stock triple; I was going to put the R6 one on with the forks but never got around to it, and the top doesn't swap over because its a few mm off.

It may very well be my bearings, I have ridden in the rain a fair amount, and it still has the stockers. Might be time to get ahold of all balls.

 

[SANGER_A2]

This may be a stupid question, but why not just swap the bike for an R6? The only benefit of the FZ6 over R6 you have now is the slightly more comfier seat and lower insurance. The insurance has probably been invalidated now you've swapped over an important chunk of the bike and you're being forced to sit so far forwards because of the clipons the benefits of the seat are minimal!

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, I just don't understand why you don't just buy the better R6 if you're comfortable with the more forward seating position.

 

[afpreppie04]

The clipons only make for a 2"ish difference, not that huge. I do like the R6 but I'm still paying off this bike, also I like taking the bike on the occasional trip. If I were to get a supersport it would probably not be an R6, maybe an old ZX9R. Even if I got one I would still change stuff on it as well anyways.

 

[oso2k]

Try mounting under the triple.

 

[afpreppie04]

I was originally going to do that but I still have the stock fairings right now and it barely clears above the triple, there's no way it would fit underneath.

 

[SANGER_A2]

The clipons only make for a 2"ish difference, not that huge. I do like the R6 but I'm still paying off this bike, also I like taking the bike on the occasional trip. If I were to get a supersport it would probably not be an R6, maybe an old ZX9R. Even if I got one I would still change stuff on it as well anyways.

Fair enough mate. The steering becomes more and more sensitive and quicker to turn into corners the lower you have the yoke down the forks. Your only solution may be a steering damper. They are really cool, but also really expensive of course. I saw a generic one a few weeks ago on the net somewhere that fitted to the fork instead of the yoke and was pretty cheap. You could look around for one like that if you're on a budget.

 

[afpreppie04]

I saw a steering damper posted on here a while back that attached to the risers specifically for the FZ. I'll have to see if I can find that thread again. I would have preferred to have kept the forks the stock height but couldn't do it with the clipons. Maybe I can find a steal on some convertibars or something; I'll have to do some fiddling with it. Another drawback was that by raising the forks like that it took some lean angle out of the sidestand, not sure if I'd trust it to keep the bike up in a big gust of wind.

 

[SANGER_A2]

I saw a steering damper posted on here a while back that attached to the risers specifically for the FZ. I'll have to see if I can find that thread again. I would have preferred to have kept the forks the stock height but couldn't do it with the clipons. Maybe I can find a steal on some convertibars or something; I'll have to do some fiddling with it. Another drawback was that by raising the forks like that it took some lean angle out of the sidestand, not sure if I'd trust it to keep the bike up in a big gust of wind.

Wolfman was one of the guys with them installed. I think it's Ohlins. There are a few out there, but they are pricy! They also fit to the bar clamps and so will look strange. Maybe you should look into putting the yoke back t stock position and get some low bars.

 

[afpreppie04]

Well I fixed it today. 1000X better now. I switched the stock handlebar back on and it was back to handling like I like it. Didn't want to swap fluid if I didn't have to, that stuff wasn't cheap and I am. So now I've got the R6 stuff but the FZ handlebars. Also probably helped I got a new front tire. I had the one on from when I lowsided before and it was a little scuffed up; my old roommate works at a tire shop and got me a new tire and mounted and everything for free Now I just have to find fender tabs to mount my fender back on so I can stop looking like a dirtbike.

So to summarize:
Clipon pros:

-Position is nice (IMO)
-Helped fix the one thing I always disliked about FZ appearance (giant gap between front wheel and fairing)

Cons:
-Mess up road feel (a lot)
-Lose steering lock
-Smashes fingers on tank if you turn too far
-Due to lowering front end, makes the bike stand almost upright while on side stand, wind worried me about parking

 

[Wolfman]

Try mounting under the triple.

+1, thgis is how the clip-ons are mounted on my fz6 cup bike....with fork legs sitting inline with top of the top triple clamp...bike has 5wt oil on forks....handles beautifully, and very stable.

:thumbup: