Opinions and Thoughts Requested

[FZ6er_FSR]

A.) You guys know that new tires are slick, right?

B.) Do you feel that a suit is justified in a case like this?

I'll weigh in with my thoughts later.

Bruce

A) As a new rider, no. But for any vehicle: bicycle, car, etc. The handling or feeling of the vehicle is never the same after it's had some work done on it.

Ex: Car tune-up, you bring in a car with low pressure tyres, dirty motor oil. Oil is changed, tyres are brought to the correct pressure. Even after a vehicle is washed, it drives different.

Everytime I leave the service area, I always take it easy to readjust to changes if any. It may not be new tyres, but service garages work with oil products, oil might be suck on it anyway. You spray your own chain lube and you risk having slick tyres.

B) No. But I'm from Quebec and there's something called good faith. You can't really will a case if someone had good intentions and did nothing else wrong.

Also, when a garage warns you about new tyres being slick, isn't it just a friendly jester? Even if the rider was told by someone, nothing was written so it's their word against theirs.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

Another court-case discussion? EVERYONE wants to know how the court system works, but here's a crash course in RESPONSIBILITY.

Assuming the plaintiff can fully prove he slid-out, STRICTLY because of his newly fresh tires (very unlikely):

The mechanic can prove he installed those tires with proper procedure (very likely, because they keep garage records and machinery inspected all up to date); the mechanic would not be found guilty.

IT IS NOT A MECHANIC'S RESPONSIBILITY TO VERBALLY WARN RIDERS ABOUT NEW AND SLIPPERY TIRES, BECAUSE IF THAT WERE TRUE, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A WRITTEN SIGNATURE REQUIRED BY THE ENDORSER.

If the plaintiff could prove that a DEFECT from the tire company was the cause of his accident, that would be a different story:

michelin motorcycle tires warning label - Google Search

The case with the plaintiff suing the TIRE COMPANY would also end in dismal failure,

 

[#27]

I bought my bike 4 months ago from a Dealership.

I would rate my overall experience as 50/50, there are things they did Good and Bad at Sale(explained paperwork vs. not offering GAP at point of sale) and ...........Service (giving me good tips vs. chiping a mm. of paint off my frame) that have me pleased AND pissed.

Before I left on the bike on a Friday night from the Dealership, with NO INSURANCE and NO LICENSE...the OWNER of the dealership [literally] called me in his office to tell me the tires are slick and to be careful. I actually joked to my pal (who is license and rode the bike home for me) how odd I thought that was! Totally 100% true......

I don't know what that means but that is my experience.......:don'tknow:

 

[SovietRobot]

To those saying there should be warning stickers on tires...
You mean like this?

Reads: LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL DUE TO FAILURE TO "BREAK-IN" TIRES
Use extreme caution when riding on new tires.
Avoid sudden acceleration, maxiumum braking, and hard cornering for first 100 miles.

Taken from the sticker on my BT-016's.

 

[Nobby]

Just my 2 bob's worth,New tyres are slippery & you should ride a new tyre as if you were riding in the wet(not too much throttle or brake & not a lot of lean angle).When I get a new tyre I usually take the wheel off the bike & take it to the bike shop.The last couple of times when I picked it up this sticker was on the disc

 

[Bruce McCrary]

If I opened a can of worms here, or inadvertently started another court case thread to the chagrin of some, my apologies.

I wanted to see for myself if the general population of motorcycle riders has gotten so dummied down that things like basic knowledge and personal responsibility, has been lost.

FWIW the lawyer and I went back and forth most of the day (with me feeling like I was trying to teach a pig how to dance) and the whole thing ended with him asking "What happens if the motorcycle shop fails to notify the rider that his new tires are slick?" and I replied; "I guess the same thing that would happen if a gun shop owner failed to explain which end of the gun was the business end, then I pointed it at my head and pulled the trigger. Darwin award time." Then went on to add, "The problem here is not that the motorcycle dealerships aren't telling consumers which end of the bike the handlebars go on, it's the lawyers who are being presented with cases like this and not looking the 'client' dead in the eye and saying "Here's your sign."

Thanks for all the replies.

Bruce

 

[steveindenmark]

New tyres are slick because of the compound used inside the moulds making it easier to seperate the tyres from the mould. Every tyre I have ever heard of has this residue on the tyre.

The attorney is a total plank if he is not aware of this and most certainly is not a biker.

I had my tyres changed for Pilot Powers in the summer and I think about 6 of the staff at the dealership told be to take it easy because the tyre would be slick. That even included the girl who was the cashier.

I have always been told this when I have bought tyres...without exception. If the rider of the bike says he was not told the dealership will say he was and there are no independant witnesses so that is the end of the story.

If I were the rider I would not pay for this attorney to represent me unless he agreed to payment only if they win the case.

Steve

 

[blchandl2]

A) Yes

B) No

I have seen warnings in owners manuals for some of the bikes I have owned. I hope someone took note of paint stripes, fluids, etc on the road where the accident happened.

If the circumstance are truely as stated (not discrediting the original poster) there has to be another factor at work in this case.

America, the land of "opportunity".

 

[Wildcard]

Back in August when I bought my bike from the showroom, the salesman, dealer owner, and service tech all told me that the tire would be slick. I rode it home like I was in the rain and had no problems. I don't believe this guy did NOTHING wrong when turning in the intersection UNLESS there was crap on the ground.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Where is that video of that guy pulling out of that Suzuki dealership with a brand new bike and wiping out just after he pulled out of the parking lot because his tires were slick. There were several comments made on that thread saying that "wasn't he warned that his tires would be slick?"

 

[Denver_FZ6]

Bruce, no apologies, it's an interesting thread; known risks versus manufacturer's liability for an imperfect product.

First, let me say I'm all for personal responsibility, I ride motorcycles, I shoot guns, I don't like dead-man switches on my lawnmower. What's interesting to me is this is a constantly changing line between individuals taking responsibility for their actions versus placing blame on a defective product. And unfortunately it seems to me the result is moving away from personal responsibility.

Recall the billion dollar lawsuit several years ago against the car mfg in which several family members were burned when the gas tank caught fire during an collision? Who expects cars to be made completely safe in all situations? Yet it was determined the car mfg should have known it was an unsafe design and the jury agreed. So while the US may becoming a more litigious society, the juries are also agreeing.

In this case, why should tire manufacturers be excused from knowingly selling a product that won't perform suitably from the start? How much more effort would it be for the manufacturers to add another step to remove the mold release and pre-scrub the tires? I can see the lawyer presenting this case to non-rider jurors and the tire mfg losing.

 

[sideshow_downs]

I thought it was common knowledge that new tires are slick.

I believe that he doesnt have a case. He would have to prove that the manufacturer is completly at fault and that the accident want operator error. I hate that the counry has become lawsuit happy and cant take resposibility for their own actions.

 

[opds9091]

A person should know about new tyre's being slick. The dealer/tyre store.etc....should tell a person about the ware time. Look at it this way, when you buy a tyre for a car it has the label on it, as you drive on you either drive with the sticker on it, or take it off. Maybe tyre companies/dealers should do the same thing so the person knows it. As far as the suit, people sue for any thing.

 

[The Toecutter]

Cold tires are slick too! I like to have allmost dropped my bike the other morning temp was 31 degrees roads were dry. So say i had dropped it!:spank: the tire company nor dealership warned me. my point is if this guy wins his case it will open the flood gates,and the tire companys will pay these setlements by charging us more for tires!

 

[mstewar1]

a. yes
b.no

+1

What tools -- both rider and lawyer. If it's a good shop, it's a real shame. If the lawyer is able to prove that the shop was somehow negligent what kind of hit will they take? Will they stay in business? Will they be able to afford their liability insurance?

As has been said, it's a shame the way some folks shirk personal responsibility. It's a two-wheeled vehicle. It takes a bit of skill and awareness to pilot a bike well, even under optimal conditions. So when something's changed -- new parts, recent service, new/different riding environment, or change in the dang weather -- the rider has to, um what's my word, oh yeah think.

 

[Bruce McCrary]

Bruce, no apologies, it's an interesting thread; known risks versus manufacturer's liability for an imperfect product.

Thanks. Obviously I'm fascinated by it all...

In this case, why should tire manufacturers be excused from knowingly selling a product that won't perform suitably from the start? How much more effort would it be for the manufacturers to add another step to remove the mold release and pre-scrub the tires?

Well see, that's the thing. As it has been explained to me by several different tire company reps, some manufacturers use a release agent, some don't. Either way the chemical used in that process is quickly and easily removed and in reality isn't the issue at all. Obviously rubber contains oils and tire rubber has a myriad of different oils that are introduced at the time of manufacture that serve many purposes. One is making the tire easy to remove from the mold, another is keeping the tire pliable, another is giving the tires some sort of shelf life before installation so that dry rotting doesn't occur.

These oils all tend to settle in the lowest spot of the tire during storage. The reason most companies suggest a 100 mile run in time is that is about the mileage it takes the average rider to subject the tire to a couple of heat cycles. During these heat cycles some of the oils naturally dissipate. Others tend to be absorbed into the rubber during the process. I've even had more than one engineer tell me that during the life of the tire these oils will move around through the rubber being pushed by the heat and centrifugal force and that products such as Armor-All interfere with this process and can cause damage and premature wear. This is not unique to motorcycle tires either, it's true of all tires. The alternative I guess would lead to shorter shelf life and as a result higher costs to the consumer. Regardless, the reason it is no big deal in automotive usage but is a huge deal in motorcycles is the size of the contact patch and the manor in which heat is built into the tires initially between the two types of vehicles.

I can see the lawyer presenting this case to non-rider jurors and the tire mfg losing.

Would you believe the scum bag went as far as to say that normally they look for experienced riders for jurors in motorcycle related cases, but in this case they would be trying NOT to get them?!

ARRRGGGHHHH!

Bruce

 

[Ghost Weim]

People need to take responsibility for their own actions/stupidity.

Well said!

However - with the economy the way it is - I think people will be looking for a quick buck... Hence more lawsuits.

 

[necrotimus]

A) The only reason I knew new tires were slick was from this site. I suppose if I had thought about it though I would have come to the same conclusion.

B) I don't think the shop or the tire manufacturer should be held liable. You don't have to be a licensed rider to buy a motorcycle and if you buy it ride out the front door and end your life that is your own problem. As long as the tire followed current standards during production and the shop installed it correctly then they should not be at fault.

However if the tire was delivered to the shop with a warning sticker and then removed by the shop before the rider took delivery and the rider was not informed then there may be a case there.

 

[Hellgate]

Many years ago I managed a bicycle shop (my other two wheeled passion - four custom made bikes are currently in my living room) and when we sold a new bike we had a "consumer awareness check list" that we went over with each customer. It covered, brakes, quick release wheels, shifting, tire inflation, chain lubing, maintenance, carrying the bike on a car, etc. We also did a similar brief with racks for cars, Yakima, etc. We tried to covered the major safety points mainly for the customers benefit but also to CYA for the shop.

In the military we do the same safety checks regardless of how many times you've done something, you can't aford to get someone hurt or damage equipment.

I think for the motorcycle consumer this is probably being done by most shops. When I bought the FZ the salesman gave me a good 10 minute overview of the bike and he did mention the tires. Also when I bought my new tires this fall Cycle Gear said, "We know you've been riding for 25 years but becareful with the new tires for the first 100 miles."

Now in this case the customer may not recall the safety brief but as long as the shop has done it you should be good to go.

Good luck!

 

[bmccrary]

But even if he did say it, and it was only a verbal warning, how do you prove it? The client could argue that he never said anything and the shop would have no way to prove that they did. I have a feeling we might start seeing wavers on parts sales...

-bryan