Only getting about 13.4v @ 2.5k rpms

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Cliff / Randy, while on the subject.

Looking at agf's spec's, his highest charging voltage (vs my older -but passed the load test easily battery) is in the 14+ volts.

The max mine will will charge out to is about 13.9 and that's decelerating about 2500 -3000 RPM. **Will the 3 year old, somewhat sulfated battery CAUSE the slightly lower charging voltage I'm seeing?

 

[FinalImpact]

Its back to the Who needs WATT based upon how many WATTS the system puts out. In the back of you mind throw "float Voltage" in there and the fact that Batteries charge with current once you get above the cells crescent voltage.

Our charging system is all in giving all it can from ~2500 RPM on up. So whether the system needs 300 watts or not, its making it. It runs the systems ECU, fuel pump, ignition system, lights, etc and then based upon the batteries needs it either goes into the shunt as heat or the battery as current.

That said, a fully charged cell will take no current and have a higher float voltage. Say 14+Volts. A discharged battery will take more current and because we have that 300 watts as a fixed value it now divides like so based upon the batteries depth of charge (needs).

PASTE FROM: http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...mpact-trouble-shooting-maintenance-guide.html

300W / 12v = 25.0A << Battery charge is very low (*LOW*), all energy is converted to AMPS to charge battery.
300W / 13v = 23.1A
300W / 14v = 21.4A
300W / 15v = 20.0A << Battery is fully charged OR battery is sulfated and will not take a charge (* high*)

So, your battery having a lower voltage is a tell tale sign that it needs charged. However, there could be other factors in play.

Scott, I was shocked by mine at cold start idle showing 14.4V at 1500 RPM. So perhaps some systems are more efficient than others??? IDK!

 

[Motogiro]

Cliff / Randy, while on the subject.

Looking at agf's spec's, his highest charging voltage (vs my older -but passed the load test easily battery) is in the 14+ volts.

The max mine will will charge out to is about 13.9 and that's decelerating about 2500 -3000 RPM. **Will the 3 year old, somewhat sulfated battery CAUSE the slightly lower charging voltage I'm seeing?

It could be chemical condition of the battery and it's design. Remembering we use digital meters for the most part these days and we are all comparing voltage with minimal "tenth of volt" resolution. Throw in reference standards and calibration for any DVM type meter and well... you can see what I'm getting at. Although these meters are probably pretty close the combination of stator,RR and battery could give us those differences. I think 13.9 is fine and of course how it behaves throughout it's operation of the bike is the real story.

Remembering we have a shunt type regulator, as we look at battery voltage behavior there will be a difference in loading voltages when we compare it to voltages on a car battery with alternator field winding regulation.

On our bike we are always measuring a charging system with a shunt regulator so how accurate a voltage measurement will we get with the symbiotic combo?

It would be neat to know where the shunts start to conduct.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yep, Its fully charged with a new fancy Optimate 6 charger, passed the load test on my (previously posted) coil, battery load tester with flying colors. Bike runs fine.

I do have a new battery(not filled/final charge)but don't want to pitch this one until it starts ascting up.

I think as said Cliff, my voltage tester is fairly fancy, the difference between 13.9 and 14.1 is minimal.. Prefer to see 14.1 but obviously, its charging as it should...

 

[johnnyg]

New battery about 10 days ago
Sitting cold V 12.97
Key on V 12.65
Priming V 12.45
Cranking V 10.72
Cold idle V 14.05
2500-3000 rpm V 14.15~14.18


my iPhone post using Tapatalk - sorry for any shpillong mishtooks i has fat fingies

It's been sitting for the last two days but still seems good:

Sitting cold 12.67v
Key on 12.35v
Cranking 10.5v
Cold idle 14.08v
2500-3000 rpm 14.10v

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It's been sitting for the last two days but still seems good:

Sitting cold 12.67v
Key on 12.35v
Cranking 10.5v
Cold idle 14.08v
2500-3000 rpm 14.10v

Interesting the charging, highest voltage went from 13.4 to 14.08.

Thanks for the post/update! And congrates too!

 

[johnnyg]

Interesting the charging, highest voltage went from 13.4 to 14.08.

Thanks for the post/update! And congrates too!

Yeah I'm no electrical engineer but I'd guess the internal resistance of the bad battery wasn't letting it get up to where it should be?

Is nice when I'm sitting at a light with my blinker on not seeing my headlight alternate with the blinker, hehe. And more importantly when I'm in those spots where the power was cutting in and out like I mentioned in the original post, it's a lot smoother now like I can hear the engine going chugga chugga but the acceleration delivered still feels smooth

 

[FinalImpact]

Interesting the charging, highest voltage went from 13.4 to 14.08.

Thanks for the post/update! And congrates too!

Yeah I'm no electrical engineer but I'd guess the internal resistance of the bad battery wasn't letting it get up to where it should be?

True! ^^ about the battery health!

Is nice when I'm sitting at a light with my blinker on not seeing my headlight alternate with the blinker, hehe. And more importantly when I'm in those spots where the power was cutting in and out like I mentioned in the original post, it's a lot smoother now like I can hear the engine going chugga chugga but the acceleration delivered still feels smooth

That's an indicator of battery health.
If you think of charging a depleted battery it goes something like this:
Dead ~ 75% charge takes high current demand. So our system will show a LOW voltage.
75% ~ 90% current is reduced as it reaches float voltage and the system voltage climbs.
90% ~ 100% charged. Virtually no current and battery/system voltage peaks.

It may be your meter but for 4 years if been monitoring my bike and it sits at 12.9#V for months while parked.
I don't raise the tank just probe the RR connector here:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

True! ^^ about the battery health!




That's an indicator of battery health.
If you think of charging a depleted battery it goes something like this:
Dead ~ 75% charge takes high current demand. So our system will show a LOW voltage.
75% ~ 90% current is reduced as it reaches float voltage and the system voltage climbs.
90% ~ 100% charged. Virtually no current and battery/system voltage peaks.

It may be your meter but for 4 years if been monitoring my bike and it sits at 12.9#V for months while parked.
I don't raise the tank just probe the RR connector here:

I'm checking mine at my BMW outlet (fused but direct to the battery), a couple feet of wire...

Where exactly on the RR are you checking? I'm assuming its still hooked up, just probing off two terminals?

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm checking mine at my BMW outlet (fused but direct to the battery), a couple feet of wire...

Where exactly on the RR are you checking? I'm assuming its still hooked up, just probing off two terminals?

At the RR that feeds the battery (out), 3 white leads (in).

Just take the seat off and reach in! :thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

At the RR that feeds the battery (out), 3 white leads (in).

Just take the seat off and reach in! :thumbup:

THANK YOU!

I've seen the pic of the regulator before but didn't ever look up exactly where it was at on the bike... Back from the garage;

Now for something interesting. :thumbup:

I've previously posted, going thru my BMW outlet(pictured below), on the side of the bike, the max voltage was 13.92 or so..

Checking direct at VR, 14.14 max. Yippee, glad to see it is indeed putting out a FULL charge

Same meter, same running cycle, obviously a slight drop of voltage over a short run of wire/connector

Now, even thou this battery passed the load test easily, on the initial COLD start up, voltage dropped to 8 volts .

After initial start, 10 volts... (battery is 3 plus years old). It still starts fine, I have a brand new Yuasa, unfilled, waiting to go in. (Just trying to run this one into the ground)

I love this shortcut to get an ACCURATE READING!!!

 

[FinalImpact]

Thats a fair bit of voltage drop for no load at the connector. I bet during charging **whatever** the bad connection is gets warm. You might inspect it.

A quick test: connect an 1156/57 bulb (or more watts) and measure V at connector and from RR. Whay is the difference? Maybe the wires are just too small?

 

[agf]

I know its off topic
Scott, you are making me jealous of how clean you bike is.
I can wash mine, as I do weekly, and as soon as I hit the road out front of the house its filthy again. Builders leaving clay clods all over the road, slushy while its wet in winter and when we do get a dry break it just becomes silty fine dust-can't win

back to business

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thats a fair bit of voltage drop for no load at the connector. I bet during charging **whatever** the bad connection is gets warm. You might inspect it.

A quick test: connect an 1156/57 bulb (or more watts) and measure V at connector and from RR. Whay is the difference? Maybe the wires are just too small?

As I re-call (its been at least 4 years), when I wired in the BMW Powerlet outlet, I used MUCH heavier gauge wire so I could run a 30 amp fuse. (similar sized as what comes from Powerlet in their kits, Had a bunch of extra wires/connectors, etc over the years).

I did not want that fuse blowing while using an air compressor, heated clothing, etc with a lighter fuse. Those wires and fuse are plenty large enough. All connectors are crimped, soldiered and heat shrunk.

That line runs up to my marine distribution plate which again, uses a heavy wire (forgot the size) wired DIRECT to the battery (not fused, accessories are fused after the distribution plate).*

* BTW, that main line is inside another electrical covering/sheath for safety reasons(it WON'T wear thru and touch ground).

Of course, I have to plug in a male BMW style plug with an SAE connector to hook up my meter.. (Another connector to go thru)


I'm surprised of the slight voltage drop however it is ONLY .20 volt drop, 13.92 TO 14.14 volts.

I just had some concern re the charging system as it should be 14 volts and I could not, ever, until yesterday see 14...


**I'm thinking that older battery, is NOT alllowing 14 charging volts (internal resistance/sulfation?) into it, even thou its obviously getting 14+ volts (proven at the VR). I never checked running voltage running at the battery.

The line I was checking was from the battery, not the VR, thus, the 13.92 max.

Does that sound reasonable?

 

[FinalImpact]

Scott, maybe I'm missing something but if there is NO load on the end where you're measuring (its just your meter) and you're just shoving test probes on 1) battery, 2) BMW outlet, 3) RR, a small meter has very HIGH impedance and presents no actual load to the system. Yet, you see voltage drop on # 2, but not # 1 & # 3, that really implies something has a bad connection!

Like I said, place a small load at the end of each location and look at the voltage (even Test lamp). If that small lamp induces voltage drop it only gets worse when the demand goes up (higher current). So if your heavy gauge wires and fuse are dropping voltage its telling you there is resistance in that line set. Resistance makes heat and heat makes fire. << Obviously worst case....

Point: even drawing a 3 Amps through a bad connection can get hot and melt things.

Another way to detect BAD connections is to measure from the source (BATTERIES "+" side) to the "+" at the BMW outlet while under load. Repeat on the "-" side to "-" side while loaded at the BMW outlet. Your volt meter should read ZERO volts. If it shoes voltage, the circuit is compromised!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Scott, maybe I'm missing something but if there is NO load on the end where you're measuring (its just your meter) and you're just shoving test probes on 1) battery, 2) BMW outlet, 3) RR, a small meter has very HIGH impedance and presents no actual load to the system. Yet, you see voltage drop on # 2, but not # 1 & # 3, that really implies something has a bad connection!

Like I said, place a small load at the end of each location and look at the voltage (even Test lamp). If that small lamp induces voltage drop it only gets worse when the demand goes up (higher current). So if your heavy gauge wires and fuse are dropping voltage its telling you there is resistance in that line set. Resistance makes heat and heat makes fire. << Obviously worst case....

Point: even drawing a 3 Amps through a bad connection can get hot and melt things.

Another way to detect BAD connections is to measure from the source (BATTERIES "+" side) to the "+" at the BMW outlet while under load. Repeat on the "-" side to "-" side while loaded at the BMW outlet. Your volt meter should read ZERO volts. If it shoes voltage, the circuit is compromised!

Just tested at the outlet (thru a pigtail) and the VR, NOT RUNNING. 13.14 at both, exactly the same.