Noticing a trend in FZ6 Horsepower Obsession

[afpreppie04]

Now you could slap a turbo on the fz6....throwing that one out there. I don't recall seeing ANY turbo'd fz6's...ever. Not only would it be unique, creative, and original....but that would be down right BADASS.

This is the one I mentioned earlier, not sure if he has it running yet, and if it were me I would use something more precise than a PC3, like a Microsquirt.
Its alive again, but 1 question about my turbo setup - Sportbikes.net

 

[Ridgeback]

Pwned lol.

You may send flowers and grovelling letters of apology to the usual address........

 

[oso2k]

Being someone who owns a 05 FZ6 & an 07 R6S, I'll weigh in on this.

Wider:
ozfazer is probably right about motor mounts being off. The FZ6 feels much wider and Yamaha HxW specs would also indicate so. Most notably, the FZ6 is wider around the gas tank, wider where the gas tank meets the rear subframe, and wider at the rearsets. That being said, it could be just the frame Yamaha chose that creates this wideness. As kniefi & I proved on SBN, 03-05 R6, 06-09 R6S plastics will fit the FZ6 with a custom fairing stay and some brackets.

Ram Air:
One thing to consider is that part of what creates more HP on the R6 is that it breathes with Ram Air. I would be concerned of keeping up the intake air flow.

Weight:
As mentioned by many others, the R6 is ~60lbs lighter and it's balance and geometry utilize that to amazing effect. This, above all is a greater differentiator in performance between it and the FZ6.

"Wind up speed":
The characteristics of the performance in 0-35 MPH are roughly the same, with the R6 having a noticeably faster wind up speed. You'll go 0-15 MPH in about the same time, but at that point, you notice the R6 is starting to hit the revs faster, and around 35 MPH, the R6 will build MPH about 30% faster, and revs about the same pace.

ECU:
Also as mentioned by others, the ECU is quite different and more advanced. It monitors many more sensors while responding to inputs more quickly.

=====
That being said, if you should go through with the motor swap, be ready for a few things. Addressing the narrower and taller R6 airbox and gas tank, addressing ram air intakes, and shimming the engine into the frame. Good luck and I hope you figure it out.

 

[jtarkany]

Being someone who owns a 05 FZ6 & an 07 R6S, I'll weigh in on this.

Wider:
ozfazer is probably right about motor mounts being off. The FZ6 feels much wider and Yamaha HxW specs would also indicate so. Most notably, the FZ6 is wider around the gas tank, wider where the gas tank meets the rear subframe, and wider at the rearsets. That being said, it could be just the frame Yamaha chose that creates this wideness. As kniefi & I proved on SBN, 03-05 R6, 06-09 R6S plastics will fit the FZ6 with a custom fairing stay and some brackets.

Ram Air:
One thing to consider is that part of what creates more HP on the R6 is that it breathes with Ram Air. I would be concerned of keeping up the intake air flow.

Weight:
As mentioned by many others, the R6 is ~60lbs lighter and it's balance and geometry utilize that to amazing effect. This, above all is a greater differentiator in performance between it and the FZ6.

"Wind up speed":
The characteristics of the performance in 0-35 MPH are roughly the same, with the R6 having a noticeably faster wind up speed. You'll go 0-15 MPH in about the same time, but at that point, you notice the R6 is starting to hit the revs faster, and around 35 MPH, the R6 will build MPH about 30% faster, and revs about the same pace.

ECU:
Also as mentioned by others, the ECU is quite different and more advanced. It monitors many more sensors while responding to inputs more quickly.

=====
That being said, if you should go through with the motor swap, be ready for a few things. Addressing the narrower and taller R6 airbox and gas tank, addressing ram air intakes, and shimming the engine into the frame. Good luck and I hope you figure it out.

Nice observations and advice. I won't be the one that does the swap, but if someone does get the urge, please document and post

 

[Brad]

These HP #'s some of you have up are way off =/

True Rear Wheel Horsepower < Take a look, make sure you read the notes any bike showing a abnormal HP # is extremely modified..

Most of the newer 600s just put a bit over 100 at the wheel.

 

[rpereira]

You know why stop at a R6 engine, shoehorn a FZ1 or another engine in there and shove a turbo/super charger on it

Now that would be awesome (Or go buy a FZ1 ;P)

 

[Ridgeback]

You know why stop at a R6 engine, shoehorn a FZ1 or another engine in there and shove a turbo/super charger on it

Now that would be awesome (Or go buy a FZ1 ;P)

Most people like to mod what they've got.
After all,why do people spend £1000's on a standard car,when they could have bought,say a Scooby,with more performance for half the outlay?

It's all about individuality

 

[Twitch]

I ride with a few R6s. I know my bikes not completely stock and has alot of mods but neither are theirs. And i have never really noticed a difference :O lol. Thats a big question i always get , "Why not just buy a real r6?" and i say "This keeps up with every other 600 out there." I guess its the persona of the "sport touring" bike. All i know is that my fz has kept up with every bike out there from gsxr-1's to ninja 250's. It might not hold with a gsxr-1 on the long shot but with proper riding technique, you can smoke em in the twisties :rockon::Flip:

 

[agp]

I owned a 93 FZR 600 prior to my FZ6. I thought I would be able to ride faster on the FZ6 than the FZR due to the increase in stock horsepower and horsepower mods I've done. After a year and a half with the FZ6 I've found out I was wrong.

The FZR handled better which allowed me to maximize the bike's potential in turns. The ergonomics of the FZR helped me get the proper body position. I have trouble achieving proper body position on the FZ6 which compromises my ability to maximize the bike's power in turns.

I think I am getting convertibars to help get my arms in better position. Even with suburban machinery bars my elbows end up well below my hands in turns which creates an incredibly awkward riding position. I'll probably be selling my power commander to offset some of the costs of the convertibars and eventual suspension upgrades.

 

[fzme]

I have trouble achieving proper body position on the FZ6 which compromises my ability to maximize the bike's power in turns.

I think I am getting convertibars to help get my arms in better position. Even with suburban machinery bars my elbows end up well below my hands in turns which creates an incredibly awkward riding position.

How tall are you? Just wondering.

I have convertibars, and they really do provide a huge range of possiblity for handlebar setup. I've changed mine a few times to try to find the right feel. The instructions in this video (at 6:15) tell you to use one, two, or three fingers spacing from the tank to set each bar. You can get a fairly symmetrical handlebar position, but your tank is not as dead even on both sides as your frame is. Anyway, it's not a deal breaker. I love mine. You'll love yours.:thumbup:

convertibars.com

 

[agp]

I am 6'1" with long arms for my height. I think I will pull the trigger tomorrow.

 

[joe1971]

I don't know about you guys, but for me and not having a track closer than 300mi. I never really get to explore the full potential of the fz, most of my riding is done around town (to work and back mostly, having a 1yo baby does that to ya). So on the infrequent occasion that I do get to go hit up the local twisties and play a bit with the power that the fz has on tap I'm always left with the question "why the hell do I need more?"

As for the mod wish list, Rebuilt forks with full adjustment, rear shock with full adjustment, +3 on the rear sprocket (when the current one wears out).

I do have to say one thing about dyno's though THEY LIE, their a great tuning tool if only one dyno is used from start to finish. There are to many variables unique for each location for them to produce truly accurate numbers, if you want to know how much power your bike is really putting to the ground your going to have to go to the dragstrip and crunch the numbers at the end of the day.

 

[Doorag]

When you say "faster", are you talking flat out speed or are you really meaning to say you want more torque? I mean, the FZ6 will go from zero to ticket in first gear and off to jail in second gear. But (and I may be mistaken) what I think you mean is you want it faster out of the hole, rolling on at the apex? That means you're looking for torque.

But, just as Wavex and Hellgate pointed out, technique and a properly handling bike are paramount to being able to out-pace other bikes. The FZ1 is hard pressed to stay with the smaller 600, 500 and 250 bikes on a totally technical track (all curves and few straights) with like riders. A highly technical rider on a 250 is going to put any of the larger bikes away if they carry the "average skilled" street rider.

The FZ6 is a great machine for what it is... mild sport and touring... a daily commuter. But without a lot of money in upgrades, namely race-quality suspension, the bike struggles to stay in a heavy lean through the corner and because it cannot be adjusted from stock, is terrible at settling through a bump in a corner and can be quite scary (I know first hand...)

The FZ1, even though it has adjustable suspension, is still not great, but better. It is still going to take some hard earned cash to make this bike perform should I want more out of it. For now, with the adjustments I have made, it is a ton better than my old FZ6 but it can be a lot better still...

I'll add to this. There's a guy who lives in West London somewhere who rides a 500cc scooter. You know the kind - twist and go, feet flat in front of you, step-through frame, bog standard scooter. I see him at least once a week commuting one way or the other (going to work in the morning or coming home) and I have never, ever seen anyone that can keep up with him. I've seen squids on Gixxer litre bikes try, I've seen old dudes on police style BMWs, etc... and of course I've tried myself. He leaves everyone for dust. The reason? His riding technique is awesome. Never seen anything like it except by some police riders. Heck, maybe he is a police rider. Who knows. Anyway, the point is to sort out your technique and you'll be able to out ride 95% of the other people on the road.

 

[fastar1]

So if real world performance is the motivation for this Horsepower obsession, where should we, in order of priority, be putting our money to get the best real world performance possible out of our FZ's?

If real world performance is your goal then an R6 engine swap would be a step backwards IMO. It's not like you're using WOT at 12000 rpm much on the streets, and when you do nobody would notice that you're down 35hp to the R6. Plus you lose the low-rpm tractabililty of the FZ6 for the city, and some real-world fuel efficiency.

If it's track day performance that you're looking for then there an easy way to estimate if the engine is holding you back. Let's say that 35hp boost of an R6 motor dropped your lap time by 5 seconds, but your bone-stock bike could go 10 seconds faster if ridden by a pro, that means that the engine isn't holding you back.

Fact is, I don't see the purpose of ever getting a faster bike for the track unless you're actually racing, but that's just me.

For me one of the big attractions of the FZ6 is the 14000 rpm redline, and I love RPM for the sake of RPM. IMO the only valid reason for doing that engine swap is if you like having more hp or a higher redline for it's own sake, and not for the sake of performance.

But maybe I'm crazy.

 

[Pauly_V]

I like the bike's power, but I don't like how far away it is. I guess that's just an inline thing and I'll have to get used to it. The only thing that really gets my goat is the flat spot in throttle response near 6-7 grand. It's not really a dip in torque/horsepower, but it acts more like a faulty TPS. If I try to accelerate rapidly near that range, she'll begin to drop revs. If I back off the throttle, she'll gain revs. It's really strange. I've done the onboard diag test, via the instument panel, and it tells me the TPS is fine... but I don't belive it. It just screams "faulty TPS" to me.

I can't imagine what else it'd be. The recall was done before I bought the bike, so I have no idea how she ran before they started turning fasteners.

 

[Ridgeback]

I like the bike's power, but I don't like how far away it is. I guess that's just an inline thing and I'll have to get used to it. The only thing that really gets my goat is the flat spot in throttle response near 6-7 grand. It's not really a dip in torque/horsepower, but it acts more like a faulty TPS. If I try to accelerate rapidly near that range, she'll begin to drop revs. If I back off the throttle, she'll gain revs. It's really strange. I've done the onboard diag test, via the instument panel, and it tells me the TPS is fine... but I don't belive it. It just screams "faulty TPS" to me.

I can't imagine what else it'd be. The recall was done before I bought the bike, so I have no idea how she ran before they started turning fasteners.

Strange,mines an 04 like yours yet from six grand the power just floods in under hard throttle. No hiccups nothing.Reminds me of the powerband on my old Yam LC's :thumbup:
What have you had done to the bike,pipes filter PC etc?

 

[gilesc]

I have both an 08 FZ6 and an 07 FZ1 (both were used). I love them both but feel they are very different power-wise. The 6 is bone stock and the 1 came with an Akropovic SO, PC, and was supposedly dyno tuned. There may be other engine mods on the 1 but I have yet to discover them. The 6 has a smoother power delivery but requires higher revs to achieve more power (as expected). The 6 is plenty quick for me even before it hits the power band (about 8500rpm). The 1 is pleasantly tame under 5000rpm with adequate torque for average street riding. However, above 5000rpm the power starts to come on strong and builds in a rather linear fashion, very quickly. It is hard for me to fathom just how much power there is on tap that I will never be able to use. If its lots of power you lust for, may I suggest the 1000? Mine is a beast. Of course, the fun is trying to squeeze more power (perhaps the perfect amount) out of the 6.

 

[Pauly_V]

Strange,mines an 04 like yours yet from six grand the power just floods in under hard throttle. No hiccups nothing.Reminds me of the powerband on my old Yam LC's :thumbup:
What have you had done to the bike,pipes filter PC etc?

Other than some Goodridge kevlar brake lines and the LSL sliders, she's completely stock.

I'm hoping a PowerCommander and a custom map will solve the problem...

 

[Hoshiko]

I mean, the FZ6 will go from zero to ticket in first gear and off to jail in second gear. ...

:rof:
Next time I get some one telling me that the 600ccs are "small", I am going to use your quote. :thumbup:

 

[red06]

next time you jump on your fz6 launch it hard in first all the way to redline
to about 60+ mph then all your HP obession goes away