No fuel pressure...?

[Pinebutt]

I'm having a similar problem I think. I bought an 05 fz6 in January and have been riding it pretty hard for most of the year. I have been keeping up with the regular oil changes and such but over the last 2 months, my bike has been dying on me while I'm riding it. The stalling happens through all ranges of speed and RPM. A guy at a local shop told me that it was probably the ignition coils but I have come to doubt that because it's not just the lower range of RPMs. My best guess has been the fuel pump because it stalls and then I can either pop start it or use the starter to restart it, usually, without having to stop. The problem has gotten worse and worse while I've been waiting to get the money for a new fuel pump. I got a used fuel pump on eBay and swapped the pumps out. Now I still can't start the bike and the fuel level flashes full a few times then no bars and repeats. Also the starter has compression but fires very quickly, the revolutions seem to be a good bit quicker than they should be. If anyone can help or offer any advice, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance, Garrett.

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm having a similar problem I think. I bought an 05 fz6 in January and have been riding it pretty hard for most of the year. I have been keeping up with the regular oil changes and such but over the last 2 months, my bike has been dying on me while I'm riding it. The stalling happens through all ranges of speed and RPM. A guy at a local shop told me that it was probably the ignition coils but I have come to doubt that because it's not just the lower range of RPMs. My best guess has been the fuel pump because it stalls and then I can either pop start it or use the starter to restart it, usually, without having to stop. The problem has gotten worse and worse while I've been waiting to get the money for a new fuel pump. I got a used fuel pump on eBay and swapped the pumps out. Now I still can't start the bike and the fuel level flashes full a few times then no bars and repeats. Also the starter has compression but fires very quickly, the revolutions seem to be a good bit quicker than they should be. If anyone can help or offer any advice, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance, Garrett.

Why don't you start a new thread and cover every detail you can in the original post so we's can think about it. This one is clean and coming to close. Plus we don't mind new threads that solve problems....

 

[FinalImpact]

Pulled the injectors out last night and hooked them up to an external battery and went to see if they work. They would barely spit and spatter at first, but now are flowing nicely. Went to put everything back together, and realized the rubber o-ring between the head and the injector was MIA for the #2 cylinder. So, stalled out once again. Luckily, a dealer 30 minutes away has them in stock. So, hopefully will put it back together by Thursday and have it running.

So your pressured them with - ????? - the bikes fuel pump or something else?

Granted, DC 12v is 100% flow (like 100% duty cycle / WOT) that should let you know if they have potential to flow! :thumbup: Be careful doing that with GAS!!!!

Sounds like you're on to it! Hopefully the pump builds the right pressure (not damaged) and you'll be up and running. . .

 

[miketherider]

Got everything back together, and...still same problem. Will start temporarily, then kick out once I try and give it some gas. Looks like I will bite the bullet and find another fuel pump to test and see if the TPS is replaced.

Pulled the fuel line off the pump; squirted quite a large load out. Going to rig up some type of pressure gauge tomorrow and test it for sure.

Went into diagnostic code; didn't hear the injectors fire, so that is throwing a reflag up for me. Cleared all the previous fault codes. Still the same.

Suspicious that maybe I'm fighting an electrical issue, almost as if a coil is pooping out. Pulled the #4 plug and watched for spark; was getting some, but not too much. Almost thinking it's not getting sufficient spark. The plug I pulled was black as night, so SOME fuel is getting there, but it was fouled.

Going to test the coils with regards to resistance in the AM. Hoping the 2.5 weeks I have off will yield some results.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Got everything back together, and...still same problem. Will start temporarily, then kick out once I try and give it some gas. Looks like I will bite the bullet and find another fuel pump to test and see if the TPS is replaced.

Pulled the fuel line off the pump; squirted quite a large load out. Going to rig up some type of pressure gauge tomorrow and test it for sure.

Went into diagnostic code; didn't hear the injectors fire, so that is throwing a reflag up for me. Cleared all the previous fault codes. Still the same.

Suspicious that maybe I'm fighting an electrical issue, almost as if a coil is pooping out. Pulled the #4 plug and watched for spark; was getting some, but not too much. Almost thinking it's not getting sufficient spark. The plug I pulled was black as night, so SOME fuel is getting there, but it was fouled.

Going to test the coils with regards to resistance in the AM. Hoping the 2.5 weeks I have off will yield some results.

From your earlier post, #12, it ran until it got hot, so I have to agree, you may have a coil going out, especially if the cylinder/spark plug was wet.. If your bike was just running off the battery, it may have ran until the voltage dropped off.

Just curious, check and make sure you have at least 12 volts at the battery when cranking. If the voltage is low, you'll have problems lighting off the ignition... You can jump the bike battery from a 12 volt car battery, just make sure THE CAR IS NOT RUNNING.

 

[FinalImpact]

From your earlier post, #12, it ran until it got hot, so I have to agree, you may have a coil going out, especially if the cylinder/spark plug was wet.. If your bike was just running off the battery, it may have ran until the voltage dropped off.

Just curious, check and make sure you have at least 12 volts at the battery when cranking. If the voltage is low, you'll have problems lighting off the ignition... You can jump the bike battery from a 12 volt car battery, just make sure THE CAR IS NOT RUNNING.

Maybe this is why it got parked? It quit running and the OO got PO'd and parked it? I'd begin by cleaning and checking all grounds and excersizing the connectors looking for bad contacts, corrosion, broken wires, pushed out pins, etc. Clean the +/- terminals etc.

2cents: Nearly all coils will pass the ohm test. Electrically, the wires don't open or break to often so they provide us hope when we test them and they test good but fail in use. Electrically, you need to test the breakdown voltage of the coils body on the secondary output. This is not done easily as it takes equipment we don't have.

Options are:
Watch it in the dark. Do the coils throw spark when moving a ground source next to them? Can you hear them arc-over to ground? When you mist them with water do they stop working? You can just grab them with your hand whiles its running, but I wouldn't recommend this method. But, good ones won't bite you with 40,000volts.

I use a screw driver and jumper wire with alligator clips on both ends. Connect one end to a good ground the other to the screwdrivers tip. With the engine running get the screw driver tip near the caps, wires, and coils. If you see or hear it arc-over, its defective.


Ignition coil
Model/manufacturer: - - - - - - JO383/DENSO
Minimum ignition spark gap: - - 6.0 mm (0.24 in)
Primary coil resistance: - - - - 1.53–2.07 Ω at 20°C (68°F)
Secondary coil resistance: - - 12.0–18.0 kΩ at 20°C (68°F)

Here are some basic materials and the breakdown voltage. A coil should be able to handle 50kV. Deposits like grease, dirt, iron, dust, can conduct electricity. And as most will note, coils breakdown more often when warm under the load of idle, low RPMs and under acceleration. Usually due to saturation.

Something to think about. . .


Material* Dielectric strength (kV/inch)
===========================================
Vacuum ------------------- 20
Air ---------------------- 20 to 75
Porcelain ---------------- 40 to 200
Paraffin Wax ------------- 200 to 300
Transformer Oil ---------- 400
Bakelite ----------------- 300 to 550
Rubber ------------------- 450 to 700
Shellac ------------------ 900
Paper -------------------- 1250
Teflon ------------------- 1500
Glass -------------------- 2000 to 3000
Mica --------------------- 5000

 

[Motogiro]

Agree High Voltage on the secondaries can be tricky and even act okay till you hit a certain RPM and then fail at that duty cycle.

Additionally the coils get their primary through the kill switch (engine run).
This is also true of the fuel pump although in the schematic for either the coils or the fuel pump you will see only that circuit described for clarity.

The B+ from the key on goes to the Kill/Engine run switch #40 to the primary of the coils and then to the ECU. This is also the case with the fuel pump. Just for 5hits n giggles I'd jump the kill switch to eliminate the possibility it's not passing proper current or it's intermittent. It is a pretty common failure these days on the FZ6 and since there is question on both ignition and fuel pump it might be good to look upstream to what feeds both of these systems. See attached schematics.

 

[miketherider]

Pulled it all apart yesterday. Checked all connections for coils; everything looked good. Cleaned them anyways, then reconnected all the coils and tested them. Saw a brighter spark (to me, at least) than before, so figured I was good to go. Tested both on diagnostic mode and just by hitting the starter.

Had been soaking the fuel rail and injectors again. Pulled them all out this morning and used a ton of compressed air, carb cleaner and whatever I could to make sure everything was clean as a whistle. Put it back together and tested the fuel pump again. Everything looked good to go.

Started it first...same problems. Let it set for about an hour and grabbed lunch. Came back, started it again; rough idle and same "falling on my face" problem once I opened the throttle. Decided this time to just kept revving it. It kept running like crap when all of a sudden, I heard a loud "pa-pop."

After the pop, it sat there and idled perfectly. Turned the throttle slowly, and it was running...perfect. Get the tires blew up, lubbed the chain and rode it about 20 miles around my neighborhood time and time again.

Whatever it was, whether in the fuel rail or somewhere else, it apparently blew itself out. Bike runs perfect now. Added some fuel treatment and some good gas from Sunoco and rode it another 50 miles around town without a single hiccup.

I honestly think it may have been a poor connection on the coil or the bypass valve in the fuel rail. The loud "pop" it made almost makes me think it was something in the exhaust that blew itself out. Weird thing, but bike runs and rides like new (which is what you would expect with less than 5,000 miles).

Going to do more local riding tomorrow and run as much fuel as I can through it and make sure it clears out. So far, so good.

Thanks for all the help, fellas. Another happy FZ6 owner here. :thumbup:

 

[mave2911]

Congrats Mate, glad to see it all seems to have worked out!

Oh your thread brought back some memories of 'cheap' bikes that were just a pain in the arse - til you get them worked out.

I run nothing but 98octane in all of my machinery, from cars to lawnmovers, whippersnippers to outboards, and most importantly, my bike. Food for thought, but it stops a lot of the problems I've seen when lower grades of fuel is used.

Give 'er a good run, and if/when you feel you can trust it, try to give it a nice long hi-speed run, long enough to get all the parts to running temperature. (1hr or so - just have a Mate on another motorcycle or other recovery options available, at worst!)

Well done, and good luck!

Cheers,
Rick

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Pulled it all apart yesterday. Checked all connections for coils; everything looked good. Cleaned them anyways, then reconnected all the coils and tested them. Saw a brighter spark (to me, at least) than before, so figured I was good to go. Tested both on diagnostic mode and just by hitting the starter.

Had been soaking the fuel rail and injectors again. Pulled them all out this morning and used a ton of compressed air, carb cleaner and whatever I could to make sure everything was clean as a whistle. Put it back together and tested the fuel pump again. Everything looked good to go.

Started it first...same problems. Let it set for about an hour and grabbed lunch. Came back, started it again; rough idle and same "falling on my face" problem once I opened the throttle. Decided this time to just kept revving it. It kept running like crap when all of a sudden, I heard a loud "pa-pop."

After the pop, it sat there and idled perfectly. Turned the throttle slowly, and it was running...perfect. Get the tires blew up, lubbed the chain and rode it about 20 miles around my neighborhood time and time again.

Whatever it was, whether in the fuel rail or somewhere else, it apparently blew itself out. Bike runs perfect now. Added some fuel treatment and some good gas from Sunoco and rode it another 50 miles around town without a single hiccup.

I honestly think it may have been a poor connection on the coil or the bypass valve in the fuel rail. The loud "pop" it made almost makes me think it was something in the exhaust that blew itself out. Weird thing, but bike runs and rides like new (which is what you would expect with less than 5,000 miles).

Going to do more local riding tomorrow and run as much fuel as I can through it and make sure it clears out. So far, so good.

Thanks for all the help, fellas. Another happy FZ6 owner here. :thumbup:

Sounds like a plug finally lite up a bunch of unburned fuel in a cylinder, Excellent its running again... Bikes generally don't like to sit long.. Nice Christmas present to yourself! Enjoy!

 

[04fizzer]

Good job sticking with it and seeing it through! The reward is great, isn't it?

 

[RCPMg33k]

WOW! That's awesome news! I love a happy ending. ;-):thumbup::rockon: