My Version of the Airbox Mod to my '08

[SANGER_A2]

But anyway, I'll go back in my hole now

<-- *Pokes him with a stick in his hole*

 

[Wavex]

LMAO

hey I am all for modding and experimenting... so please feel free to cut things left and right... I was just giving my opinion on the matter hoping to stimulate a discussion about the topic so we can all learn something...

I am so curious about this mod that I'll help finance anyone ready to take his FZ to a dyno and check before and after airbox mod If you're in Socal, I'll even take you to a cheap dyno shop and witness it with you

 

[urbanj]

i guess i'll have to type it againt even though i've posted it before on other threads. there is a pressure sensor. on 1-3 of the manual it has i very brief description of how the fi system works.

this sensor, like any MAP sensor is placed before the throttle plates. the ecu, based on the sensor, adjust fueling. i just had surgery and im typing with my left hand only sp i just grabbed this from wikipedia on map sensors

"The manifold absolute pressure sensor provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). This is necessary to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn is used to calculate the appropriate fuel flow"

the 02 sensor doesnt do anything when the engine is under load or wide open throttle. it only operates in closed loop and is narrow band. which means it only sends data to the ecu when its not under high load and it only reads rich or lean and not specific af ratio.

the limiting factors among other things would be the fuel injector duty cycle and running out of room in the ecus and sensors parameters. we know both of those are good because you can install a pc3 and give it all of the fuel it needs.

 

[Wavex]

Thanks urbanj that's interesting!

But if the airbox and intake manifold are not pressurized, wouldn't the pressure sensor be used only to determine atmospheric pressure changes (going up and down a mountain) and make small adjustments to the fixed FI map following a number of preset values in the ECU? Or can the ECU adapt to all and any changes?

hmmm interesting...

 

[urbanj]

well technically there will mostly be negative pressure. at wot you will see 0 on a vacuum/pressure gauge. which would be 14.7 psia at sea level. maybe with the bikes that have a ram air setup they may see a couple psi of positive pressure but that would also be when they are going really fast.

so really the pressure sensor works in conjunction with the tps and temp sensors (air and coolant) and the crankshaft position. the ecu will use all the data to determine the air flow through the engine. for example you can still be at 10000 rpm with very little throttle applied. crank position sensor would show the engine spinning 10000rpm but the tps would show the throttle is at say 20%, the pressure sensor would show higher vacuum (lower load). so the ecu would determine the air flowing through the motor and inject the quantity needed.

when flow through the engine increases with mods all the other variable are the same. the engine will only spin as fast as it can spin, the throttle cant only open as much as the throttle plate can go. yet an increase in flow by modifications will increase the flow through the motor at the same rpm and throttle position as before. that, the pressure sensor can pick up to a certain extent. go outside its parameters and it cant keep up.

 

[SANGER_A2]

I've realised that I started the motor up my horns comparison video:-
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu-339hkRMA]YouTube - Yamaha FZ6 with Motraz Hootaz horns comparison[/ame]

so you can have a listen and compare it to the original sounds of my Scorpion here:-
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYyel-WcBCs]YouTube - Yamaha 2008 FZ6 Fazer Mods Commentary[/ame]

Or you can compare it to the stock sound as recorded here:-
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6nCnGrRtFQ]YouTube - Yamaha FZ6 Stock Exhaust VS Scorpion Oval Exhaust #1.1[/ame]

Obviously it's a bit different as the camera is at the front of the bike instead of the rear - but I'm too lazy to make a new video!

It's pretty obvious when listening to the second two videos that the pitch of the engine/intake sound is a lot less high pitched (and irritating).

 

[Wavex]

My offer to any socal FZ6 owner still stands about going to a dyno and helping with the expense I'll pay lunch if the dyno shows that the airbox mod increased the performance of the bike hehe

Anyway, yesterday I called the Yamaha customer service line (800) 962-7926 hoping they could get me in touch with a Yamaha technician... unfortunately, they told me that the only way to get a hold of their tech was to call a Yamaha certified dealership, and if they cannot help, they have a "tech line" they can call...

So, I decided to send the following email to all the Yamaha dealerships in Socal (well maybe not all of them, but 5 of them):

========================
To whom it may concern,

I own a 2007 Yamaha FZ6 and I have 2 friends with the same bike. One of them decided to modify his air box and effectively cut a big hole on the air box cover (before the air filter). The bike sounds a bit "throatier", and my friend claims that it increased the performance of his bike, but my other friend and myself are unsure about whether or not the FZ6's fuel injection system can compensate for this increased airflow to the engine to avoid a "lean" condition. The FZ6 does have a temperature sensor in the airbox, along with a pressure sensor in the intake manifold, but are these sensors enough for the ECU to automatically adjust its FI map? I read online that the FZ6 has a fixed FI map, so how would these sensors make the necessary adjustments if the map is fixed?

This has been posted on an online forum and we received a LOT of different opinions, but I am hoping a real Yamaha tech can help us establish the facts!

Your help is greatly appreciated!

David xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx AVE
Long Beach, CA 90815
Cell: 714-xxx-xxxx
[email protected]
==================================


I received 2 answers so far:

=================================
[email protected]
to david********@gmail.com
dateWed, Apr 15, 2009 at 9:03 AM
subjectRe: FZ6 technical question

David,
You are on the right track. This can cause a lean condition for sure. All the motors can have tolerances difference. In some cases this would make it perform better. In other cases the fuel injection could run lean. You friend may want to take a plug reading to see how it is burning. Another indication of a lean condition is popping at deceleration. Hope this helps answer you question.

Best Regards,
Johnny

Pacific Motorsports
1358 Pacific Coast Hwy.
Harbor City, CA. 90710
310-891-6990
310-891-6997 fax
Pacific Motorsports - Kawasaki,Kymco,Polaris,Victory,Yamaha, Accessories, P
===========================

No very impressed with this response... but I am hoping the 2nd one will get us better info:

===========================
fromInfo <[email protected]>
to David ******* <david******@gmail.com>
dateWed, Apr 15, 2009 at 9:54 AM
subjectRE: FZ6 technical question

Dave:

Thanks for contacting us.

I don't know the answer to the question but if you give us a couple of days, I see if I can get this answered by those in a better position to "establish the facts!"
==========================

I also sent the email to the Cycle World "Help me fix it" column... I don't expect a response from them, but we never know!

 

[Cali rider]

...So, I decided to send the following email to all the Yamaha dealerships in Socal (well maybe not all of them, but 5 of them):...

Great idea, David. I am very interested to read the information that Yamaha might supply. However, you and I both know that regardless of the outcome, there will be at least one person that will disagree.

 

[SovietRobot]

Is anyone saying that there's a performance increase WITHOUT fuel modification(PCIII/dynotune)?

 

[4drfocus]

I would say it's not a performance gain, but it does improve throttle response.

 

[4drfocus]

<-- *Pokes him with a stick in his hole*

*Wavex grumbles, me throws lit firecracker in hole, then runs* :spank:

 

[Cali rider]

Is anyone saying that there's a performance increase WITHOUT fuel modification(PCIII/dynotune)?

4 posts in this thread claim better performance, including yours:

....It's definitely had no negative effects on riding or performance and it may even be a bit better than before...

...when revs get above 8000....and a little crisper acceleration....

...the throttle is more responsive...

And your own claim:

...I did notice that throttle response is a little quicker and crisper, and low-medium range acceleration feels like it's improved. Before if I went full throttle in 2nd gear at 4,000RPM it would bog down and take a little bit to start to move, but now it feels quicker....

It might be semantics, but in my world better throttle response = performance gain. I know that if any of you felt that throttle response was worse you would consider it a negative impact on performance so the opposite must also apply.

I guess perception is reality...

 

[SovietRobot]

4 posts in this thread claim better performance, including yours:




And your own claim:


It might be semantics, but in my world better throttle response = performance gain. I know that if any of you felt that throttle response was worse you would consider it a negative impact on performance so the opposite must also apply.

I guess perception is reality...

"Is anyone saying that there's a performance increase WITHOUT fuel modification(PCIII/dynotune)?"

As regards to my previous posts, I didn't mention my FI mods in my first post, but I did in my second

"Honestly I wouldn't suggest this mod on a stock bike, but since I have an excellent PCIII map and whatnot, it did make a performance(even if small) difference for me."

"I guess perception is reality..." I guess so, since I addressed this issue on page 2

 

[Cali rider]

This whole subject is based on perceptions, no hard data at all. However, it's better than talking motor oil again.

You want to make a true performance mod for free? Remove unnecessary weight (tool kit, center stand, less fuel in the tank, body mass).

Of course, this doesn't make for interesting forum chatter...

 

[Wavex]

"Is anyone saying that there's a performance increase WITHOUT fuel modification(PCIII/dynotune)?"

As regards to my previous posts, I didn't mention my FI mods in my first post, but I did in my second

"Honestly I wouldn't suggest this mod on a stock bike, but since I have an excellent PCIII map and whatnot, it did make a performance(even if small) difference for me."

"I guess perception is reality..." I guess so, since I addressed this issue on page 2

Was your PCIII map custom tuned on a dyno after you did the airbox mod? If it is, then yes, we agree that you did not loose performance. We don't know if it increased performance though, since you don't have the "before" and "after" dyno graphs (I assume).

My goal is not to discount a mod or whatever... I could care less about what ppl do to their own bikes, I am just curious about it and would like to know. (+ I am learning all sorts of things about how bikes/engines/etc work). If it indeed increases performance, then that's great... if it turns out that modding your airbox randomly is not such a good idea, well then I know I wouldn't do it on my bike. Will it stop ppl from doing the mod? I am sure it won't, but at least they'll have facts to base their decision on :rockon:

 

[SANGER_A2]

MAN! This thread has turned into a monster. :spank: Wish I'd never posted now! :ban: The only benefit that I really noticed/cared about was getting rid of the whine!

However, it's better than talking motor oil again.

This is one of THOSE subjects really isn't it? I know, I'll change the subject:
"Who thinks chain wax is better than lube?":Flip:

 

[maverick1970]

opcorn:

This is getting good. Subscribed.

 

[Wavex]

MAN! This thread has turned into a monster. :spank: Wish I'd never posted now! :ban: The only benefit that I really noticed/cared about was getting rid of the whine!

Nah, it's all good! This forum exists specifically to discuss such issues and learn about bikes... if we can stay away from taking it personally and simply have a civilized conversation, we can only gain from it right?

I just got off the phone with the Tech manager @ Hahm Motorsports in Anaheim CA (big Yamaha dealership)... he called me to answer the email I had sent to him and apologized for the delay... so, he told me the following: "if your FZ6 is stock and you're making an airbox mod, the FI system should take care of the increase in airflow thanks to the temp & pressure sensors, however there is no guarantee since the sensors are used to make small preset adjustments to the fixed FI map only, and it of course depends on the how big of a hole was made to the airbox, etc... Then he proceeded to say that "if you do an airbox mod and have an aftermarket exhaust system, you should definitely buy a fuel management system such as a PCIII (and get a custom map obviously). He mentioned that failure to do so will make the bike run lean and potentially impact the reliability of the engine. He finished by stating that the FZ6 engine is the same as the R6 engine and that it is a high performance engine and that he strongly recommends to use a PCIII for any changes to the stock setup...

 

[GodSpeedLuc]

THANK YOU GOOD SIR! i will certainly be doing this mod in the near future then and following this write-up guideline.

 

[Wavex]

Another guy from Hahm Motorsports answered the email a few minutes ago:

===========================
fromChristophe Convert <[email protected]>
toDavid ******* <david********@gmail.com>

dateFri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:42 AM
subjectRE: FZ6 technical question

Dear David,

Anything you modify ahead of the air filter will have no effect on the volume of air been sucked in.
You will change the intake noise and that’s about it in my opinion.

Keep in mind that Yamaha spent millions of dollars to make your bike as perfect as possible under most driving circumstances. Playing around with an exacto knife to gain the extra ½ horsepower is a dangerous game that can end in costing you a fortune. We see backyard engineers coming to the shop regularly and trying to get their manufacturer’s warranty to foot the bill for their experiment. “it was like that when you sold it to me…”Huhh!
Any true technician will tell you: IF IT IS NOT BROKEN, DON’T FIX IT. And if you pretend to outsmart Yamaha’s engineer with an exacto knife, you are on your own…

Sincerely.

Hahm Motorsports
==============================

That's an interesting one... so while he recommends not touching the airbox at all, he says that in his opinion (another one yay) the only thing that is impacted is the intake sound. No performance change at all since the volume of air being sucked in remains unchanged... hmmm but if that's true, why would most FI system use a MAF sensor?
I answered his email asking for more details about his opinion (hopefully he understands that we have enough opinions at this point and we would prefer facts ).