Lowspeed Lowside - Help me understand!

ba4x

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Hey folks,

I'm new to the forum here. Been browsing for a few months and I thought I'd sign up now that I finally have an FZ6. Unfortunately I have to start off with a sad story...

I drove to LA yesterday and bought a 2008 FZ6 from this guy on craigslist. Perfect condition, only 350 miles on it. Wow! She's beautiful, black on black.

To start off my ride home, I pull into a gas station to give the tires some air. They have been sitting in a garage for 4 years, so I figure they could use some. I was right, the tires were down below 20 psi.

When pulling out of the gas station, I come up to a traffic light and get in the left turn lane. The light turns green, and I proceed to make a left turn through the intersection, starting from a stand still. I ease the throttle into the first gear, initiate the turn, shift to second gear (at around 10-15mph). When I drop into second gear, I think the revs were only around 2-3k rpm. I roll on the throttle a little bit as I increase my lean, hoping to dig in a bit and cruise out of the corner and WAM - before I know it, the rear end came out, and I'm on the ground. It was the saddest moment of my life - how did this happen! I was being so careful! I had only put 5 miles on the bike!

I'm going over it again and again in my head - is the throttle on the FZ6 really that touchy down in the low end? If I pulled the same move on my CBR250 that I had last year, it would have dug in, felt solid, and pulled out of that corner like a boss.

I admit that this is my fault, that I didn't have the reflexes to notice what was going on and correct my throttle input. But something still doesn't feel right... As soon as I leaned the bike over a little bit, its like I was on ice! I couldn't even feel the bike start pull away or accelerate before the rear tire gave up traction. It reminded my of driving on snow. It felt like I hit an oil slick or something, but there was nothing in the road. Baffling.

Here are some special circumstances to consider:

-The tires/road were pretty cold. 60 degree day, I had only been riding a couple minutes.

-I had just inflated the tires. I went for 34 front and 36 rear. Maybe the gauge at the gas station was inaccurate and I over inflated them? The bike seemed to feel better with the super low tire pressure I had on the way to the gas station.

-The tires are 4 years old. Dunlop Sportmax, made in early 2008. Maybe the compound is aging and losing it's grip? Also, they hadn't been inflated to full pressure in a few years.

-The rear rim exploded! It's really odd, I'll attach a photo. The metal literally tore apart. I don't how this happend - I downed the bike going only 15mph! Maybe there was a flaw with the wheel, which could have contributed to the loss of traction. Or it's possible that the wheel broke apart when the bike slid a few feet and hit the curb. The mechanic who towed the bike was baffled by the rear rim too :confused:

So what do guys think? Do any of those special conditions have to do with the crash? Or is the FZ6 throttle really that touchy? I just wanted to lean in and modestly power through the turn, like I'm used to doing with a 250, and the whole thing blew up in my face. I guess I'm used the low end being more forgiving with throttle input. But how can you ride an FZ6 with confidence if it's so easy to lowside in these everyday maneuvers?

Obviously I'm embarrassed and ashamed. I spent a good 6 hours trying to get home, taking trains and buses back from LA, kicking myself for the whole thing. Hopefully I can figure this out and correct my actions and reflexes so I can regain confidence with this bike in the future. Right now we're not on good terms.

Thanks for your help,
Nick
 
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Ben_H

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Hard to say about the rim. But tire pressure and tempature + age of tire are all factors of the low side crash. Think about it old tire dry rotted not warmed up and maybe pressure not right. Could be the cause. The worst thing for a tire is to let it sit. That is my opinion. I changed my last tires because of age not mileage they were 4 1/2 years old but only had about 8k on them still could have gotten another 2k I think
 

REO Scorpio

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I can't believe that rim! I've never seen anything like it.

The throttle on the FZ6 is touchy and it's probably one of the most common complaints about the bike (and one of the few). There are a couple things that help that you could look into (power commander, throttle tamer, taking up the slack), but nothing that truly fixes it. The only real "cure" is experience with it :(

Definitely need new rubber. As stated above, 4 years is at the en of the useable life regardless of miles.

So sorry you started your FZ6 experience this way, but it can only improve! You've selected an excellent all-round bike and an excellent forum which will help you tremendously along the way, so welcome.

Any pics of the rest of the damage? Maybe we can all help find some cheap used parts.

We feel for ya!

Scorp


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
 

ChevyFazer

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The way you described it, I think it's a good possibility that the rim let go mid corner causing a instant blow out and that is what might have sent you down, but what caused the rim to go is beyond me.

The only thing I can think of is you just got that 1 in 10,000 wheel that was a bad casting
 

QuietEagle

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:welcome:
Sorry you crashed, but at least you're okay. It doesn't sound like you did too much damage besides the wheel?

I will add that I started on a WR250X and on my second ride on the FZ, I pulled out of a parking lot onto the road and almost did the same thing, thankfully I was able to kick my foot down, roll off the throttle and not crash. I too purchased a 2008 Raven, 7000 miles on the original tires. The CBR250R is about 100 pounds lighter which is a lot in the low speed handling department. On the FZ, I don't think there is really that much power down low, especially in second when you are only going 10-15 mph. If anything, you would be bogging it slightly; you would have to really whack it wide open and even then you have to wait for the revs to climb a bit to really get some torque. However, even that little power will not behave appropriately if the suspension is not agreeable (see below).

I wouldn't put much stock in the old tire idea, as I rode around almost to the wire on the original tires (probably a few hundred miles); if you're not at the track and ride within the speed limit, there is a lot that you can get away with regarding tires/handling. I almost low-sided the WR :spank:, but that was on a cold day, first light, cold tires, AND tried to take it at around 20-25 (I'm guessing); that's the kind of situation where you have to worry about better rubber, warm tires, etc. I had to kick out the old foot and be thankful I didn't crash or break my ankle. It is interesting that the rear rim exploded...the bike should not have felt good at the low pressure of 20 pounds, maybe it did overinflate; did the previous owner mention they were low or if he had inflated them? If so, you would have been almost double the recommended pressure, but even then, I would think the tire would give out before the rim. When I test rode mine, the front felt like mud, but that was because the pressure was low (should have checked it :spank:, but I bought it anyway :cheer:, figured if that was how it should be, I'll just get used to it :shakehead:) Also, even if it is cold, you should still be able to make a normal turn at a light, unless you are all the way to the edge of the tire doing some gymkhana.

What I finally found was that the front springs were too weak for my weight (175 no gear, 205 gear) which put the front sag about 20-25 mm too low. I rode it that way for about six months and every time I would turn onto a street, the turn would be really wide and I would have to wait to apply power or it would swing too far. I just figured is was me or the way the bike was built, almost like I was in a land between countersteering and steering. Then, after changing the springs and setting the sag correctly, the bike just wants to go where I point it, no wide turn, no waiting before applying power. Easy to turn onto the street and power on, basically I can turn it much easier. Handles very nimbly.

My $.02

Don't take it too hard, get a fresh rim, tires and your own gauge, then make sure the sag is right for you. After that you will be able to get a feel for it. I know that I could really lean the WR over and throw it around (a supermoto for sure), but had to get used to the FZ a bit. Now I can lean over pretty confidently. You will really like it, especially once you open it up!
 

spine

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Welcome to the forums. Sorry to hear your first experience with the FZ6 was a bad one. The throttle is very responsive but I wouldn't have thought it'd slip underneath you. That wheel rim is something else! never ever seen owt like that.

Don't cast your FZ6 away just yet, unfortunately you've got off to a bad start but you'll soon discover how great the bike is.:thumbup:
 

Motogiro

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:welcome:to our great forum!
Sorry to hear of your off on the bike. Chances are the tires were manufactured well before they were purchased and then were on the bike for the 4 years. I bought a bike that sat on a show room floor for three years. The rubber sloughed off the tires more a dry powdery substance than the usual wormy marbley look you get when you heat tires. I didn't use them very long or for as spirited riding as I would normally. I got a set of my favorites really quick.

I don't think your rim just let loose. I think you lost traction as a result of failed compound in the rear and slid and hit the rim's edge.

The FZ6 is not producing that much torque at lower RPM but if you were 8K plus the motor really can quickly wake up and surprise you. If you have a tire that has lost its compound properties with the lack of scrubbing in, even if the tread looks good you can lose traction very quickly.

Main thing is you're okay!

I'm also in SD! When you get it sorted out PM me and get together with some of us for some nice rides! :D
 

lonesoldier84

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Maybe you rolled through some oil or something and got some on your tire? who knows.

Thats pretty crazy though.

Terrible luck man.

Sorry to hear it.
 

ba4x

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Thanks guys! I appreciate the thoughtful replies.

Just so I can sleep at night, I think I'll try to forget about the rim and blame the lowside on my unfamiliarity with the throttle. I'll talk to the guy at the shop and try to get some new rubber and maybe a power commander put on the bike. Hopefully I'll be good to go by next weekend! Any recommendations for new tires?

The rest of the bike is okay. Frame sliders did a great job, there's just a couple scratches on the bike. Funny how the demolished rim is the only real dammage.

I'm doing alright, although I'm pretty sore today! Got a few scabs and bruises to look after, but nothing's broken. Thanks for the concern.

Motogiro - I'll hit you up when I'm back in action! It's such a beautiful day today, I wish I could be out there. Soon enough!
 

ba4x

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Maybe you rolled through some oil or something and got some on your tire? who knows.

Thats pretty crazy though.

Terrible luck man.

Sorry to hear it.

I do remember there was a sizable oil spill where I was filling up the tires at the gas station.. Maybe I rolled through it on my way out. It was quite odd that I lost traction only seconds after pulling out of the gas station and messing with the tires.

I guess I'll never know... Spooky
 

Cali rider

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If you look at the picture closely you will see that the rim collapsed in towards the hub. This undoubtedly happened when you hit the curb. As far as the actual crash it could have been any combination of conditions you mentioned, ambient temperature, tire age/pressure/temperature, fluid on the road, etc.

After 34 years of street riding my biggest fear continues to be hitting gasoline, oil or anti-freeze while turning a corner on a city street near a service station. You just can't react quick enough to the instant loss of traction at low speed and down you go...
 

Randomchaos

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I would be 99% positive that rim broke from the impact with the curb. I have seen rims do that before when they are the first thing that hits a solid object in a lowside.

I have ridden through a very small oil slick in a parking lot before, and didn't feel any change in the handling until I started to turn. Scary moment when the bike starts to slide then grab then slide then grab as you turn and it hits those oily spots. More than likely got some oil on your tire from the gas station, or there was some on the road that you hit as you started to lean. Diesel fuel can be slick as snot too.

Don't beat yourself up too bad over it. Get a new rim, fix anything else that broke, get some fresh tires, and get to know her real good before you start pushing it :)
 

Motogiro

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Additionally, who knows what was on the tires that was never ridden on till you started to lean the bike. It happens real fast...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9zNUPDmnz4]Brand new Gixxer crashed - YouTube[/ame]
 

Red Wazp

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If you look at the picture closely you will see that the rim collapsed in towards the hub. This undoubtedly happened when you hit the curb. As far as the actual crash it could have been any combination of conditions you mentioned, ambient temperature, tire age/pressure/temperature, fluid on the road, etc.

After 34 years of street riding my biggest fear continues to be hitting gasoline, oil or anti-freeze while turning a corner on a city street near a service station. You just can't react quick enough to the instant loss of traction at low speed and down you go...


I'm with Cali on this one. New rider may have contributed to the low side but something slick on the road surface could have been the real cause.

If you haven't, now is the time to invest is real quality motorcycle gear- boots, pants, jacket, gloves etc. As you learned bad things happen faster than anyone can react.

Learn from this, fix your bike:Flash: and get back in the saddle asap.
 

ba4x

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Additionally, who knows what was on the tires that was never ridden on till you started to lean the bike. It happens real fast...

Brand new Gixxer crashed - YouTube

Amen! I feel for this guy. What a crap situation.

I'll start my hunt for new gear today! Do you guys generally order online after trying the fit in a store? That seems like the best plan.
 
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