Illinois considers new M/C license requirements

[ChanceCoats123]

Reading that post, in my opinion, shows a problem that no set of laws will fix.

Regardless of what size/type of bike is ridden, the rider with no respect for the road and what motorcycles can do will always find themselves in trouble in the long run (and more often than not, the short run as well).

I can understand how a smaller bike will teach fundamentals (I learned on mini bikes and dirt bikes), but if the rider has wheelies and street races in mind, it won't matter how long they ride a small bike. The end goal is still the same in their mind.

Ps. If that was my son, after the first fall on that bike, it would have been taken away. It's not my place to parent, I'm just making a note.

 

[payneib]

Having a tiered system, IMO, would not be a bad idea. The best way, probably examine how in Europe, Canada, etc are doing it successfully..

It used to work really well.

As has been said before, the test and training in Europe is top notch, way more comprehensive and therefore producing much more competent bikers than the car test does drivers.

The tiers used to be that you could do the test at 18, be restricted to 33bhp for two years and then without further bother derestrict and be on your way.

Now you have to do the test at 19, be restricted to 48bhp for two years then retake to get the restrictions lifted. Or wait till you're 24 and just do one test for the full licence.

The drop in young riders staying on a CBT (think one day MSF course) and avoiding proper training is substantial.

Bike test numbers plummet - Motorcycle news : General news - Visordown

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Reading that post, in my opinion, shows a problem that no set of laws will fix.

Regardless of what size/type of bike is ridden, the rider with no respect for the road and what motorcycles can do will always find themselves in trouble in the long run (and more often than not, the short run as well).

I can understand how a smaller bike will teach fundamentals (I learned on mini bikes and dirt bikes), but if the rider has wheelies and street races in mind, it won't matter how long they ride a small bike. The end goal is still the same in their mind.

Ps. If that was my son, after the first fall on that bike, it would have been taken away. It's not my place to parent, I'm just making a note.

Oh I agree 100% on pullling the bike, we had a major falling out about it..

Your going to learn the fundementals on any bike. BUT for someone like (as I posted above) the immature, young person riding a 250, or 500 twin (with maybe 40 HP) will NOT be nearly as likely to get into trouble, nearly as FAST as say the FZ6 or larger.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I agree completely. What I meant was that keeping someone on a 250 for a year won't stop them from doing wheelies once that year expires and they go out and get a shiny new 1000cc bike. If their plan with a motorcycle isn't to safely commute, become a competent rider, and have safe fun, but instead is to go out and impress their buddies and babes then the end result will be the same... Just a little bit delayed.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I agree completely. What I meant was that keeping someone on a 250 for a year won't stop them from doing wheelies once that year expires and they go out and get a shiny new 1000cc bike. If their plan with a motorcycle isn't to safely commute, become a competent rider, and have safe fun, but instead is to go out and impress their buddies and babes then the end result will be the same... Just a little bit delayed.

If their that ignorant and set on going fast, driving stupid, etc, it'll happen sooner or later.

Most folks, true riders (not weekend warriors), who love to ride, can (and hopefully will learn) how best to handle a smaller bike in heavy traffic, VS a HD a bit harder to stop, a lot more to handle than say that 250 or 500cc bike.

To complicate things, true story; One of the guys I used to work with (at least 40 at the time) didn't know how to ride. Took the two day course and passed. Went out and bought a brand new full sized Harley (have to keep the cool image!!). I saw him leave the station one day on the bike, BOTH LEGS, FEET OUT while turning into the roadway, while at 10-15 MPH, holy crap.... NO helmet of course...

How do you address that situation (which isn't that uncommon down here)?

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Good, good, now we can get revenue for the tickets we write on people for not following the rules. It's not about lives, maturity or responsibility it's about the cash flow. people will always find dumber ways to kill themselves. This is just pointless if you ask me.

Of course take my advice with a grain of salt. I have to go see driver control the 12th over points.

"Speed never killed anyone, the suddenly becoming stationary, now that's the killer"

(Humor of course)

 

[yamihoe]

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

 

[Champ1978]

Previously posted, I bought my FZ from my then best friend..

He bought it as a FIRST bike for his son, just old enough to take the class and pass. No driving/ riding experiance, just pillion..

He acts mature in front of us, but behind that, different story. Typical 17 year old (this is several years ago)

The bike was laid down THREE TIMEs, on both sides, once learning to do a wheelie ($1,500 in parts and broken wrist), a stopped tip, etc.
I bought the bike for dirt cheap and fixed it...

There are mature folks and not so mature (or lacking common sense)...

Sounds like that kid was enjoying life. Snapping limps and falling down is part of process. Plenty of people have suffered more just riding bicycles or skate boards. Bike size doesn't matter at all.

Oh, I take the last part back somewhat.

You are far SAFER ON A BIGGER BIKE learning to wheelie. On small bikes are you have pop the clutch which is more difficult and risky, on a large bike you can just roll the throttle and easily power wheelie.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Good, good, now we can get revenue for the tickets we write on people for not following the rules. It's not about lives, maturity or responsibility it's about the cash flow. people will always find dumber ways to kill themselves. This is just pointless if you ask me.

Of course take my advice with a grain of salt. I have to go see driver control the 12th over points.

"Speed never killed anyone, the suddenly becoming stationary, now that's the killer"

(Humor of course)

What he did, just passed the course, got his license, riding a huge bike, no helmet (no helmet law down here), NOTHING was illegal. No revenue to gain as there wasn't any violations, just flat stupid (and dangerous) IMO...

Just to clarify; To ride without a helmet (in Florida), you must be 21 or older and carry $10,000 health insurance on who's helmetless (operator or pillion)


Its got NOTHING to do with "cash flow"..

 

[2nd childhood]

I agree completely. What I meant was that keeping someone on a 250 for a year won't stop them from doing wheelies once that year expires and they go out and get a shiny new 1000cc bike. If their plan with a motorcycle isn't to safely commute, become a competent rider, and have safe fun, but instead is to go out and impress their buddies and babes then the end result will be the same... Just a little bit delayed.

True, but is it wishful thinking that they would be somewhat less incompetent in their riding skills when they move up to a liter bike?

 

[ChanceCoats123]

True, but is it wishful thinking that they would be somewhat less incompetent in their riding skills when they move up to a liter bike?

No, I definitely think their fundamentals will be better. But amazing fundamentals won't keep you safe when you're actively putting yourself into a dangerous situation.

 

[thisisbenji]

I like the way they're doing it in Europe currently with the power-to-weight ratio type deal. Going strictly off engine CCs is CRAZY.

I rode a Bolt the other day and at 950cc that thing was a slow tank, I'm not sure it was any faster than the Ninja 250R I learned on. I would hate to have to ride a 250cc version of the Bolt for two years.

 

[FinalImpact]

This part of the article was interesting.....

The age group with the most motorcycle-related deaths in Illinois in 2012, the most recent year reported by the state, was 50 to 54; it had 23 deaths.

"We call them returning riders," said Terry Redman, a state motorcycle safety instructor who counts himself as one of the group, having taken years off from riding to get married and raise a child. "They go out and buy the biggest bike they can get their hands on. The bikes weigh a lot more, their strength isn't there, and we hate to admit it, but our reflexes are slower. Unfortunately, it's a fast-growing fatality group."

Liebe, the ABATE leader, said older, returning riders have an experience gap. "They're frankly some of the worst riders because they've been away so long, and they're going like they did when they were 21."

^^^ OUCH!!!!!
Granted - there's likely much truth in it, its pretty sad! My fingers are crossed that I don't add to this statistic! I'm a little shocked that the younger squidly age isn't carrying the higher numbers....

• I have to wonder how many of these were cruisers dragging parts and failed to turn due to clearance issues....

Flip Flops, sandals, shorts and no helmet = gene pool reduction regardless of bike type or size....

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That^^ doesn't surprise me. I see, (mostly Harleys), riding without helmets, in shirts, sandles, etc.

To believe that getting some miles under your belt (new rider) is just as easy on an 145 HP FJR (600+ lbs) vs a 40 HP Kawasaki 500 twin (approx 400 lbs) is absolutly ludicrous.

Yes its easier to do a wheelie on an FJR, than that Kawasaki 500, that's the idea.

With a new rider and smaller bike (or at least less powerful engine), they WON'T nearly as easily be able to do so and get into triple digits in two gears as you can with the FJR..

To respond to crashing, hurting yourself, almost totaling the bike, is "enjoying life", well, no comment..

 

[2nd childhood]

I was one of those guys who rode a lot when young and took an extended hiatus (30 years) after getting married. My first bike upon returning to the riding world was a Yamaha VStar 650, weighing in around 550 lbs and having a "massive" 40hp. I rode it for a couple of years before deciding it was too big (drug foot pegs on a easy relaxed turn), too heavy (fell over once when I had it die on me when I wasn't expecting it) and too slow. The FZ6 was a great upgrade and I don't think the transition back to riding would have been as uneventful if I'd gone directly to a liter bike.

 

[iviyth0s]

Yeah, the idea is flawed. We have tier licensing in NJ, which isn't all that great. About the only thing it put a stop to was folks taking their tests on scooters.

As mentioned in the article, motorcycle type may have more to do with death rate than the engine size.

We need to take lessons from some European countries when it comes to licensing.. bikes and cars.

Yeah, I took my test before that was implemented on a 125cc automatic scooter and never took a BRC but would like to some day.(maybe BRC2) 3 years with my Nin250 and 1 year with the FZ6 with no crashes. *knock on wood*

I only wish that it was free to do either, for that's what turned me off of doing them (they used to have a free class I thought and then I saw they didn't). It was $40ish to rent the scooter, practice for an hour in parking lot and then take the test. My friend now has my 250 and probably may not take the BRC due to its expense (and he's not very smart about things...he says a motorcycle should always be able to go far faster than the police can catch you because his cousin is unlicensed, unregistered, and uninsured on a gsxr 750 and has successfully ran from the police 3 times now and he seems to be his model. I'm not saying he fully follow in my footsteps of no training but he's already had a nice lowside (not with me, it was when he drove in PA alone, with a permit...) and also a pretty funny looking lowspeed highside while riding with me. But yeah, long story short I believe he'd be more inclined to learn the craft right if it was free or less expensive as I would have.

Good, good, now we can get revenue for the tickets we write on people for not following the rules. It's not about lives, maturity or responsibility it's about the cash flow. people will always find dumber ways to kill themselves. This is just pointless if you ask me.

Of course take my advice with a grain of salt. I have to go see driver control the 12th over points.

"Speed never killed anyone, the suddenly becoming stationary, now that's the killer"

(Humor of course)

Yeah this is my opinion, more laws just mean more hollering for dollaring.

I believe they should enact the helmet law first though and then the restricted system similar to europe really makes sense everywhere and with state revenue to help or completely fund everyone's BRC.

 

[mdfb42]

THIS! They have been going by displacement for insurance purposes forever. Bike type and age of rider have everything to do with the likely hood of a fatal accident. A 600CC supersport will do 160 mph while a 750 cc V-twin cruiser can barely hit 100 mph.

I've only met a few guys under the age of 25 who were safe, responsible riders on a sport bike. Restricting new, especially new, young riders to less powerful bikes for a period of time, say 2-3 years would be a reasonable step. Lack of riding experience does not mix with egos that are bigger than brains.

Funny thing is when I switched from my FZ6 to my new to me VMax (600 to 1200), My insurance went DOWN from $690/year to $490/year. Found out FZ6 is labelled a sportbike and the twice as big, twice as quick, twice as heavy, 10x as torquey Vmax falls under Cruiser.

HAHAHA....needless to say, I didn't complain.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Yeah, I took my test before that was implemented on a 125cc automatic scooter and never took a BRC but would like to some day.(maybe BRC2) 3 years with my Nin250 and 1 year with the FZ6 with no crashes. *knock on wood*

I only wish that it was free to do either, for that's what turned me off of doing them (they used to have a free class I thought and then I saw they didn't). It was $40ish to rent the scooter, practice for an hour in parking lot and then take the test. My friend now has my 250 and probably may not take the BRC due to its expense (and he's not very smart about things...he says a motorcycle should always be able to go far faster than the police can catch you because his cousin is unlicensed, unregistered, and uninsured on a gsxr 750 and has successfully ran from the police 3 times now and he seems to be his model. I'm not saying he fully follow in my footsteps of no training but he's already had a nice lowside (not with me, it was when he drove in PA alone, with a permit...) and also a pretty funny looking lowspeed highside while riding with me. But yeah, long story short I believe he'd be more inclined to learn the craft right if it was free or less expensive as I would have.


Yeah this is my opinion, more laws just mean more hollering for dollaring.

I believe they should enact the helmet law first though and then the restricted system similar to europe really makes sense everywhere and with state revenue to help or completely fund everyone's BRC.

In Illinois, the BRC is free. There is a $20 deposit that they ask if you want back at the end of the course. If you don't, they donate it for more BRC's.

If your friend can't afford a $20 (or $40 that you mentioned) class, then he definitely can't afford registration and insurance and shouldn't be riding on the street.

Pardon me if I misunderstood your post, but that's what it seemed like you were getting at.

 

[2nd childhood]

In the state of Washington, you're not required to carry insurance on your motorcycle. *sigh*

 

[iviyth0s]

In Illinois, the BRC is free. There is a $20 deposit that they ask if you want back at the end of the course. If you don't, they donate it for more BRC's.

If your friend can't afford a $20 (or $40 that you mentioned) class, then he definitely can't afford registration and insurance and shouldn't be riding on the street.

Pardon me if I misunderstood your post, but that's what it seemed like you were getting at.

Oh I'd totally donate $20 toward the cause but it's like over $300 here...robbery, and higher yearly registration fees than cars. WTF nj