Help with the steering bearing races

[fazil]

I need urgent help with the steering head bearing races.

I started a R6R fork swap mode, everything is ready but i can't put new all balls bearing races to the frame. I didn't try the upper race yet but i tried the lower spending an hour for that little ring and no way.

I've made a tool to put races on but it didn't work.

Any advice would be nice.

 

[skooter65]

I tried a very similar approach to you when completing my ZX6 Fork conversion; same results: No Go!

At the end of the day, I used the "hammer-in" method. Used the old race as a spacer and gently tapped the new race into place. Be sure to work your way around (and in a criss-cross pattern) to avoiding warping the new race and/or distorting the soft aluminum frame.

A nice trick: Put the race in the freezer for a few hours before installing. This will cause the material to contract and ease the install.

Hope this helps!

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[fazil]

Thanks skooter65.
I'll listen to your advice.
I put the races to freezer.
And may be i can heat the frame with my camping gas oven
If it doesn't work out, there is a special tool i'll try to find it locally.

 

[outasight20]

When I did this job, I also ended up using a steel hammer to tap them into place carefully. Make sure you do a little at a time and go around in a circle. It worked well and I haven't had any problems with my steering head bearing since.

 

[FinalImpact]

Thanks skooter65.
I'll listen to your advice.
I put the races to freezer.
And may be i can heat the frame with my camping gas oven
If it doesn't work out, there is a special tool i'll try to find it locally.

If you use a set like this, freeze the mandrel also. It will give you a few more minutes. However if it takes more than 10 min out of cooler to install its moot point. Because that all thread is coarse threaded, its going to take a above average torque to seat them. Likely beyond the woods strength and possibly beyond that of the all-thread stock.

Motor oil and hammer may get you further. You did confirm the races is the same OD as that removed?

 

[tyler2011]

I just used the old race and a hammer doing mine last year. You should be able to just tap around and it will slowly move into place. If you find you are having to keep hitting it harder, then it is binding (not straight) and you will have to find out which way to correct. Just be careful and tap it in.

The freezer trick might help you get it started initially.

IMO there is to much risk with trying to heat the head. Aluminum joined with bolts, plastic and wiring say's there to much risk.


EDIT: I used the old race to tap in the new race.

 

[fazil]

Bearings are not the same as old ones, also the races are thinner.
Previous ones were SKf brand tapered bearings, new ones are Allballs special fork conversion bearings.

So thicker races will have to go deeper in the frame i guess.

 

[skooter65]

They shouldn't go in any deeper; The original ball-bearing races are just recessed into the frame a bit further.

 

[fazil]

Look:

 

[tyler2011]

Also, you may have to re-use the upper seal. New lower was the same. The one All Balls sent was smaller and would not have sealed properly. others have also commented on the issue.

 

[FinalImpact]

Look:

Why is there a big hollow void between the stem and the inner race on the ALL BALLS lower bearing???....

Also: The Outer Diameter (OD) of the two bearings race should be the same size. Is it?
The bearings Taper (angle) is different and thats OK. Its OK that the Inside Diameter (ID) is different too. But the Bearings Outer Race OD must be the same to fit the frames opening.

 

[fazil]

Yes OD is the same.
That hollow you noticed is interesting.
Allballs have used a collar inside of a standart size bearing and sells as conversion bearings. You know you can't find all sizes of bearings but you can use a collar to fit. That's what they have done in that hollow.

 

[Gelvatron]

there is no way to instal a race perfectly flush with out a seal driver kit id really recommend one using it one time will pay for itself

 

[reno2486]

steer straight and narrow our Steering Bearings must be in good condition.

Motorcycle Steering Bearings come in three styles.

Loose ball bearings.
Caged ball bearings
Tapered roller bearings.

Click the Picture for the Full Size.
Ball Bearings

Click the Picture for the Full Size.
Caged Ball Bearings

Click the Picture for the Full Size.
Tapered Roller Bearings

The entire basic steering assembly is called a Triple Tree, Triple Clamp, Steering Head, Steering Head Yoke, or Steering Stem. Up until around 1985 most, but not all, bikes used loose ball bearings for their steering races. These bearings have upper and lower outer races that are a tight press fit in the frame and a lower inner race that is press fitted to the steering stem. The upper inner race is a loose fit.
-------------

2013 MERCEDES BENZ SL-CLASS

 

[lrojasma]

OMG i can´t belive you guys.

On the FZ6 there is nothing more easy than installing the steering bearings bases.

What you have to do is just to lose a Little bit the steering head nuts where the 2 chasis (frame), left and right are bolt toghether.

when you do this, you dont what to make any kind of forcé in put the bearing race...

Then after you do that, you torque again the frame, and THAT´S TI!! incredible easy.

 

[fazil]

Are you sure it is a good idea to loosen the frame bolts for steering bearings.
Service manual advices tapping it into the frame.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you grind down the OD of the old race just slightly, (that WAS inside the frame) you can use that to hammer on once the new race is started into the frame.

As you near the end of the install, a long punch used on the edge of the race is used for the final seating. You will literally hear a difference once its seated completly.

+1 on freezing the race as well, every little bit helps..

The install is the same as doing a bearing change out on a trailer wheel hub bearing swap..The difference in the race and the cast hub was .006" and took some serious beating with a hammer (and that was on the work bench). That race is extremly hard and difficult to tear up. Just make sure if using a long punch, its angled so it DOESN'T SLIP off the race.

 

[lrojasma]

Are you sure it is a good idea to loosen the frame bolts for steering bearings.
Service manual advices tapping it into the frame.

i did it at least once on my bike, the process is so simple that you just PLOP, is incredible easy.

i like this way because the bearins get installed without any kind of force, so the NEW state of the bearing races and the bearing itselfs isn´t touch.

After you install everything, you torque the frame again at specs and everything should be fine.

 

[fazil]

Did you just loosen the bolts in the front neer steering?
Or any other frame bolts like engine bolts etc?
Did you use any locktite?

 

[FinalImpact]

As Fazil said, the FSM does not suggest loosening the bolts!

The draw back is this: The environment is NOT CONTROLLED! dirt, gravel, grease, rust, debris can fall into the now separated frame halves and prevent them from going completely together.
** Secondly the torque applied with the races installed is not the same as the torque applied with them removed. Yes, At glance it APPEARS to be a no brainer to loosen the bolts. But I'd guess the sustaining engineers had a reason for NOT WRITING, LOOSEN BOLTS, THROW RACES IN, Torque bolts into the FSM!!! They've been doing this longer than you ((name here w/35posts)).

IF SOMEONE DECIDES TO LOOSEN THE BOLTS AS AN OPTION FOR RACE INSTALLATION;
** Clean the area completely so no debris can enter the frame. THIS INCLUDES THE INSIDE!!!!
** Once the races are installed and the bolts are torqued, SEAT THE RACES COMPLETELY using the old race and a hammer. Just as Scott mentioned, the tone will change getting more of flat sound when the race bottoms.


Although it is unlikely that something bad will come of loosening the bolts for "most owners", someone will make a mistake thus increases the chances of damaging the frame. Its why the engineers didn't write those words into the FSM. And would you pay a shop to NOT follow the FSM suggested practice??