Help: Testing Relays

[kevlarorc]

Hi guys,

For the past few weeks I've been having some starting issues with my bike. It's error code 19. I've already removed, cleaned, and continuity tested my side stand switch. My next step is to test my starting circuit cut-off relay. However, since my electrical knowledge is limited, I want to make sure I fully understand what the service manual is saying before I screw something up.

I understand that I need to hook up a 12v power source to the leads indicated in the diagram.
Is it simply a matter of running some spare wire that I have from my bike's battery terminals to the relay or should I be using a separate 12v power source?

Thanks for looking!

Here is a screenshot of the relevant part (pg 8-117):

 

[kinderwood]

I understand that I need to hook up a 12v power source to the leads indicated in the diagram.
Is it simply a matter of running some spare wire that I have from my bike's battery terminals to the relay or should I be using a separate 12v power source?

EE here. Yes, to test the relay continuity all you need to do is supply it 12V (DC obviously). It can be from the bike's battery. If I may make a suggestion though; since you have the battery exposed I would disconnect it from the bike's wiring.

When troubleshooting electronics it can be helpful to break it into small pieces, eliminate all the variables you can. Keep it as simple as possible. One battery, one relay, and wires between them. That way you know for certain if the battery is good and the relay doesn't switch it's bad.

Also, I was getting error 19's as well. The bike either wouldn't start sometimes, or more frighteningly would cut out while in motion. In my case it was the sidestand switch. It was completely full of road grime mixed with grease inside. It wore away the contacts b/c it was so abrasive, also the spring was weak. I cleaned it, it got somewhat better, but it was still intermittently error 19-ing. I replaced the switch with a new part and the error went away. One test you could try is to short the sidestand switch with a paperclip. This will force the bike think it is in the up position.

Is your error 19 all the time or intermittent?

 

[Motogiro]

Sorry but we're not allowed to post copyright material on the forum. I know it makes it difficult because I've used schematics in the past and they are so helpful.

Simple answer on your supply voltage is yes you can use your bike battery as the supply voltage to the relays
As already posted, If an error code 19 resolves to the side stand switch I would remove the wires so that you have an open condition. Test to see if the bike starts. If it doesn't start bind the 2 wires together to to see if it starts. I don't know if the sidestand down position is supposed to be an open or closed switch condition.If this doesn't work then suspect another component failure.

When activating any of the 2 relays that are in the starter interrupt cutout module, caution must be taken because there is a diode across each relay coil. Full forward current on any of these diodes will result in their destruction and they would be out of the circuit when the unit is reattached to the ECM/ECU. This can result in damage to the ECU/ECM because of the relay coil inductive kickback. Those diodes shunt those spikes to keep those inductive spikes to a minimum. The relays would still operate with those shunt diodes blown but they may hurt the ECU/ECM unit.

Both those internal relays are powered by positive voltage to the red with black tracer wire. Confirm these wires translate to the same pins when the plug is removed for testing. ID this pin for the positive voltage supply and you will be good on the testing. One relay negative coil connection is blue with a yellow tracer. The other relay negative coil is black with a yellow tracer.

Good luck!

 

[FinalImpact]

Also you can just go into diag mode and move the side stand up and down. Wiggle at each location see what the ecu is reporting.

Sounds like you have the FSM, info is here too... click image to go to Post 6 and read more info...


Notice #20 = ON = UP!

Sensor operation table:
01 : Throttle angle Fully closed position 15–17, Throttle fully opened position 97-100
02 • Atmospheric pressure given in mmHg (normal is 760 - average weather)
03 : Differential pressure between air and intake pipe
05 : Air intake temperature (in Celsius)
06 : Cooling liquid temperature (in Celsius)
07 : Absolute speed (000 = wheel stopped). Check with rear wheel (0-999).
08 : Lean angle safety switch control - must be from 0.4-1.4 (upright) to 3.8-4.2 (horizontal).
09 : Battery voltage - track actual battery voltage.
20 : Side stand switch - displays ON or OFF. Retracted = ON, Extended = OFF
21 : Neutral gear switch - displays ON or OFF. Neutral = ON, In Gear = OFF

 

[kinderwood]

Also you can just go into diag mode and move the side stand up and down. Wiggle at each location see what the ecu is reporting.

Sounds like you have the FSM, info is here too... Post 6
Diagnostic testing

That's a good point, that was how I confirmed my switch was iffy.

And the switch is definitely shorted to allow engine to run (kickstand up). I checked the wiring diagram and shorted mine until my replacement switch arrived.

 

[kevlarorc]

Thanks everyone, I will try this stuff tomorrow.

 

[kevlarorc]

My problem continues. I'll give a quick run-down on what I've already done/tested.

• Error code 19 persists. It is intermittent. I can always get the bike started given enough tries. It usually takes 3-5 tries now. I have had the bike shut off while in motion twice so far. Both times occurred soon after moving from a stop.
• When this first began occuring I decided to jump the circuit by shoving some wiring in to the side stand connector. This worked for a week or so and then the problem returned.
• For some reason, and maybe it's just confirmation bias, the problem seems to occur more often when it is cold outside. I considered the idea that maybe some contacts were barely touching and when it was warmer the contacts expanded a bit so that better contact was made. This is probably crazy though.
• I have cleaned and continuity tested the side stand switch.
• I have reseated the connections to the side stand switch, the ECU, and the start up cut-off relay.
• I have continuity tested the start up cut-off relay using the method referenced in the service manual. I did get readings of continuity on the multimeter though the resistance kept changing and the relay made a lot of clicking. Hopefully that is the desired output. If not I may have fried the thing.
• I entered diagnostic mode to check the side stand switch operation. However, no matter whether or not I closed the circuit the LCD would only return "ON" This included testing it via jumping the switch.

Can anyone confirm that what I saw with the relay continuity test is okay? Any ideas on what I should try next?

edit: I just rode to grab some food and had no issues. I reseated a couple connections before I closed the bike back up, maybe I fixed something doing that. OR I may have just gotten lucky. I'll give it a couple days before I call it fixed.

 

[Motogiro]

My problem continues. I'll give a quick run-down on what I've already done/tested.

• Error code 19 persists. It is intermittent. I can always get the bike started given enough tries. It usually takes 3-5 tries now. I have had the bike shut off while in motion twice so far. Both times occurred soon after moving from a stop.
• When this first began occuring I decided to jump the circuit by shoving some wiring in to the side stand connector. This worked for a week or so and then the problem returned.
• For some reason, and maybe it's just confirmation bias, the problem seems to occur more often when it is cold outside. I considered the idea that maybe some contacts were barely touching and when it was warmer the contacts expanded a bit so that better contact was made. This is probably crazy though.
• I have cleaned and continuity tested the side stand switch.
• I have reseated the connections to the side stand switch, the ECU, and the start up cut-off relay.
• I have continuity tested the start up cut-off relay using the method referenced in the service manual. I did get readings of continuity on the multimeter though the resistance kept changing and the relay made a lot of clicking. Hopefully that is the desired output. If not I may have fried the thing.
• I entered diagnostic mode to check the side stand switch operation. However, no matter whether or not I closed the circuit the LCD would only return "ON" This included testing it via jumping the switch.

Can anyone confirm that what I saw with the relay continuity test is okay? Any ideas on what I should try next?

Any of the 2 relays on the starter interrupt/cutoff module should just click once when power is applied or removed and you should get a steady, very low or zero resistance through each relay's contact pins when the coil on each relay is activated. If you have a poor connection to the coils or the contact pins that you reading continuity from, you can have intermittent reading.

At this point even though you're getting an error 19 I would not completely discount suspecting the kill switch. An intermittent contact through the kill switch could interrupt logic at the starter interrupt/cut off relay assembly and the ECU throws a #19 flag on the field stopping the engine. If you can do it, jump the kill switch to eliminate it but when you connect these wires they must be well connected as you should do when you are doing any of your tests.