First Bike Size

[Texperkin]

Hey peeps,

I'm new here so any offence I give is completely unintended and if I’m going over old ground, there are a LOT of threads so I apologise for bringing up old stuff.

My comment is on the suitability of a mid-sized bike for a beginner. This is the thread that got me thinking:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6r-general-discussion/16359-nervous-about-getting-my-fz6r.html

So, in Australia (or at least Qld) of course we’re not allowed on a more powerful bike until we’ve not killed ourselves on a 250 or equivalent for a couple of years (hope that’s right – my information is a bit out of date). This has been indoctrinated into me so much that the very thought of putting someone who’s been on beginner’s course on a 600cc bike fills me with horror. How can the mighty legislators allow inexperienced riders out on something that will go 200kph. Actually, how can they let ANYONE out on something like that…. but that’s a topic for another thread.

For myself, I got my licence in the UK about 7 years ago. Did the basic weekend course to get the L’s and then did a couple of weeks on a CB500 to get the direct access (open) licence. At the time I had no problem with this and considered that I had everything I needed to be able to ride a 1300cc cruiser. Hell, the law said so.

Now I really like that they don’t let novices near a bigger bike in Oz. Far too many people have an inflated idea of their own abilities and even if you know you’re not ready for a bigger bike, chances are you’ll get one anyway because society is telling you your ready. Smoothpapa in the thread above knows he’s not ready but is going to do it anyway.

As for people jumping in and telling everyone that the 600 is boring and you should go straight for the FZ1, well that’s just crazy.

 

[lonesoldier84]

We should be free to make our own decisions. There are many bikes over 250cc that are not bad beginner bikes:

sv650
gs500
gsx650f
fz6r
drz650
klr650
etc
etc
etc

if you have a good attitude and self-discipline and control you will be ok on those bikes. Because some people are stupid and cant take care of themselves the government feels the need to intervene with laws....

well not everyone is stupid. the ONLY thing that should be illegal is getting a SUPERSPORT in your first year or 15,000km of riding...whichever comes LAST.

why should the government be able to decide supersports should be illegal in the first year or 15k? because for noobs they are horrendously overpowered.

the bikes that i listed above and others like em are not death-machines for noobs.

your right hand should be your regulator....not big brother!!

Note: This all comes down to your concept of government and its role. You seem very eager to hand over control of your decisions. Sure going 200 kph on public roads is illegal....then why sell bikes that can go 200 kph? Because if you dont then you cant sell cars that can go 200 kph. Then all cars will have limiters built into them @ 125 kph or so. There are many people who can justifiably hold 200 kph on the highway without being reckless. if the road is clean and straight and visibility is perfect and the operator is sharp and capable.....what right does the government have to treat him the same way it treats an 80 year old driving a '73 buick? None. What you propose is a clone army of a country. If that ever comes to pass I will scream FREEEEDOMMMM and charge in guns-a-blazing.....and im CANADIAN!!!

 

[Texperkin]

hehehe, all fair points lonesoldier.

I guess I agree to a large extent - if someone wants to kill themselves then why not let them. However there are exceptions:

1) If they put someone else in danger while they're doing it - like allowing someone to operate a couple of hundred kilos of projectile when they’re clearly not experienced enough to do so when its pointing at other people.

2) If that person doesn't have a lot of choice – when there are addictive substances involved for example.

This touches on both points. 1 is pretty obvious – you have to build up slowly. Maybe those bikes you’re talking about allow this so I’m not going to argue the finer points but opening it up to whatever you like is asking for babies to be run down by adrenaline fuelled speed junkies.

2 is about education. Quite often I hear that people bought R1s just before they go for their licensing courses, never having ridden a bike before because someone told them that they’d be bored on anything less. Their choice I guess but our mighty Governments must take responsibility for some of the education. If there are signs everywhere saying that smoking causes lung cancer, if you still want to do it then you can’t complain – especially if said Government is actually making revenue out of the sales of said ciggies

 

[OZXJR]

Texperkin,the law has changed now and is HP based,50hp I think.Learners can now ride a LAMS bike up to 660cc.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/r...DF03487/0/LAMSlistpublishedWeb17April2009.pdf

 

[JayJay]

In SA I believe its 150Kw per ton.

 

[OZXJR]

In SA I believe its 150Kw per ton.

Nation wide mate,just couldn't remember the figure.

 

[Humperdinkel]

In QLD mate you can go from your learners to a full open class licence in 2 days now :spank:....I dont agree with the Q-ride laws but thet are similar to the NSW laws when i got my licence , had to do a stay upright course yet they let me ride to the course how does that work LOL........

It also depends on the rider that has control of the throttle , i went from a PE175 straight to a CBR1000F :scared: (moment of weakness) forgive me for i have sinned , but im still here to tell the story :thumbup:

 

[doc_simple]

my first bike was a 20 year old FJ 600. It was a blast... when it would start

After 2 months I wanted one that would start every time and I got the FZ6. WOW, what a difference. 2 years later the only time the bikes been down is in the damn driveway and gas station.

BUT, i gotta little tale to tell. Right after getting the FZ I went to the beginners motorcycle safety course. Here in Oregon successful completion of a weekend course provides you direct access to your license - NO FURTHER TESTING. At the time seemed great, in retrospect.... but I digress.
I met a couple jokers (not Gypsy jokers, just idiots) at the course. One of the guys and I took a ride after class, he was a nutbag and almost got us arrested. A week after the course he calls me and says him and the other guy are gonna do a run, do I want to come? Well, I was already off with a crew of kneedraggers I met online and that was fun but pretty scary just trying to keep them in site. A couple days later I see crazy guy on the road and we pull over for a chat. Seems that he and the guy HE MET AT A SAFETY COURSE went out on a crazy high speed ride, that the other guy ended with another crazy high speed ride in an ambulance. We all had brand new bikes and the other guy low-sided into a gaurd rail and then HIGH Sided over the rail into a telephone pole. Scared me even more than riding with the kneedraggers, they knew what they were doing. On a side note to all noobs, or I should say noobier than me cuz after 2+ years I now have enough experience to have a healthy fear of a supersport, if your going on your first ride after MSC and the guys (and a couple gals) show up in partially shredded leathers with bikes that have road rash down the sides... go home.

Moral of the story, I think you know it. A few days of puttering around the parking lot does not make Valentino Rossi. You know how I know that? He aint in the hospital.

 

[chuckfz6ryder]

In this case, size doesn't matter. If you are not a responsible rider, a ninja 250 could get you killed. Not to say the ninja 250 isn't a great beginner bike, maybe one of the best, but I've done 100+ MPH on it when my wife had one. If you can ride responsibly, an FZ6 won't kill you because of the power. The friction zone is small, and the throttle is sensitive, so clutch management is a little tricky, but if you're comfortable with a clutch, you'll adjust.

 

[JayJay]

no-one believes me but I had my 93 gpx 250 up to 170kmph.

You can die on any bike so you might as well be comfortable!
I was knocked off my gpx on the freeway at 90kmph.

Pick one you respect and are comfortable with handling. Dont pick one that your going to **** yourself on every ride you wont learn quick enough. You can work your way up to that a bigger one later.

 

[Texperkin]

Guess you can't legislate against idiocy too . You're right of course. You can kill yourself on any class of moped if you really want to.

Scary things these bikes aren't they? But not quite as scary as some of the meatheads that ride them.

I did a Stay Upright course not long ago. It was an advanced course for experienced riders. I was thinking that it would be full of people who'd realised early on that they weren't Rossi and wanted to do a bit more. In retrospect I was being naive. There were 2 guys there in their early 20s and the rest were silver foxes on BMWs. I would have thought those guys didn't have anything else to learn but it seems that only with lots of experience do you realise you don't know everything.

It was a fun course by the way and those guys were full of great tips and stories. Maybe all the 20-somethings should have to spend a couple of days on an advanced course with old road warriors who've lost mates to speed.

 

[ironman]

There have been several posts about this very topic over the time that I have been on this forum. Each time there are people saying, "The government should do somthing. . ." and others saying "People get to choose". Now, there is a bit of confusion about this argument that is introduced because this is an international forum and the laws in each country/region deal with this and other similar issues differently. I in no way want to turn this thread into a discussion on politics, but I will add this. I am not a fan of big government and I do not believe that it is the responsibility or the right of government to interfere with a person's right to put him or herself in danger. If people can't learn how to stay alive on their own then we have no business intervening with the natural selection process. If we do over regulate this and all other similar issues, then we are only crippling the people and making them permanently dependent on an external regulator.

There is a guy on this forum who has this quote in his signature, "sometimes the gene pool needs a little chlorine and sometimes that chlorine comes in the form of asphalt."

Nothing makes my point better. You can't make people smarter about riding motorcycles by regulating who gets which one. You can't make people smarter about guns by regulating who gets which one. And obviously (to us here in the USA) you can't make people smarter about using money by "regulating" who gets which loan.

A man's ability to succeed is measured not by the height of his limitations, but by his ability to understand and operate within them.

Bikes are fun. Some people are stupid. Asphalt is hard. No man imposed rule is going to change any of that. The only thing that over regulation changes is that sometimes it helps the stupid people hang around a little longer so that they can become more dangerous and raise up larger hoards of stupid people.

If you want to make a difference. . . educate, don't regulate.

Rant over.

 

[sm00thpapa]

I just talked to 2 guys last night about this issue. One started on the FZ6R just 2 months ago and already said it doesn't have enough power for him and wants 1000cc already. The other guy started on a R1 and is very much happy with it. So if your mature and responsible enough you can ride what ever you want and you will be ok. I chose the FZ6R cause I am to big for a 250. I am 6 feet 230 pounds, I would be lucky to get a Ninja 250R up to or even passed 80 MPH. I got this bike for fun not as a daily driver. If it takes me a year riding around parking lots to be ready for the road so be it. I'm in no rush at all.

 

[doc_simple]

well shoot, if I knew the FZ6R came with a hottie mounted on it I might have gone that route :thumbup:

I just talked to 2 guys last night about this issue. One started on the FZ6R just 2 months ago and already said it doesn't have enough power for him and wants 1000cc already. The other guy started on a R1 and is very much happy with it. So if your mature and responsible enough you can ride what ever you want and you will be ok. I chose the FZ6R cause I am to big for a 250. I am 6 feet 230 pounds, I would be lucky to get a Ninja 250R up to or even passed 80 MPH. I got this bike for fun not as a daily driver. If it takes me a year riding around parking lots to be ready for the road so be it. I'm in no rush at all.

 

[Texperkin]

I just talked to 2 guys last night about this issue. One started on the FZ6R just 2 months ago and already said it doesn't have enough power for him and wants 1000cc already. The other guy started on a R1 and is very much happy with it. So if your mature and responsible enough you can ride what ever you want and you will be ok. I chose the FZ6R cause I am to big for a 250. I am 6 feet 230 pounds, I would be lucky to get a Ninja 250R up to or even passed 80 MPH. I got this bike for fun not as a daily driver. If it takes me a year riding around parking lots to be ready for the road so be it. I'm in no rush at all.

Cheers Sm00thpapa. Seeing how it was your post that originally got me thinking I'm glad you put in your 2c.

You sound pretty switched on by the way. Therefore its looking good that you might survive the inital couple of years without being squished. Good on yer!

 

[sm00thpapa]

Cheers Sm00thpapa. Seeing how it was your post that originally got me thinking I'm glad you put in your 2c.

You sound pretty switched on by the way. Therefore its looking good that you might survive the inital couple of years without being squished. Good on yer!

I'll be on my bike next week for the first time. I'll post how it goes. Take care.....

 

[jmerch44]

I always hear people get upset abut the gov' intervening on personal choices. But if it is ok to let a noob ride whatever bike they want even though it is dangerous to them and everyone around them, why isnt it ok to let someone drink and drive as they wish? who is the gov' to tell me what I can and cant drink before I ride? (I hate drunk drivers by the way, just trying to make a point) If you want the gov' to bud out, then prepare for them to bud all the way out, not just as far as your comfortable. Ride safe and free.

 

[sm00thpapa]

Well I will at least say this. All DMV's require you to take a road test and a written test. Whether it's with their office or at the MSF. It's not like the US gives license to just anyone. You have to have at least some bike time and knowledge to get your license. Think about how many people are in the world that ride bikes without a license. I don't think everyone obeys the laws around the world.

 

[dantow]

I think Qld has just changed the legislation so as you can't go from learner to opens in two days like Humperdinkel said. I did the stay upright advanced course last year also. I think it should be mandatory for all riders to do one. Hoping to do the advanced cornering and braking course at oran park later this year. In the UK they have wheelie schools where you get taught the best way to do clutch and power wheelies. That would be a fun course to have out here!

 

[ironman]

I always hear people get upset abut the gov' intervening on personal choices. But if it is ok to let a noob ride whatever bike they want even though it is dangerous to them and everyone around them, why isnt it ok to let someone drink and drive as they wish? who is the gov' to tell me what I can and cant drink before I ride? (I hate drunk drivers by the way, just trying to make a point) If you want the gov' to bud out, then prepare for them to bud all the way out, not just as far as your comfortable. Ride safe and free.

If you are implying that drinking and driving laws are really enforced in this country then you are crazy. I don't like drunk driving any more than you. But our government does not truly punish the majority of the people who commit this crime. They give people minimum and reduced sentences and fines (as if a pennyless drunk is going to pay his fine) and take away their driver's license (as if a pennyless drunk cares if he has a drivers license). Drunk driving laws are enforced about as well as gun laws. . . they keep the honest people honest. I am not trying to promote anarchy. Nor am I trying to say that beginners should be able to ride whatever their little hears and very little brains desire. I am simply saying that government regulation of this is going to keep a 35 year old newb who is judiciously and responsibly trying to break into the motorcycle world on a 125cc bike and it is still not going to stop the idiot 18 year old who gets on a friends busa and takes it for a joy ride at 150 mph. My point is that all drivers (cagers) and riders need more education, not more unenforceable regulation.