Finally...Hydraulic Clutch!!!

[skooter65]

Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

After a long, long wait, Magura has finally manufactured a hydraulic clutch assembly for the FZ!!!

Some of you may recall my post from last year regarding the clutch cable length after a FZ1N headlight conversion (Link for reference).
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/15693-2007-fz6-clutch-cable-hydrualic-clutch.html

Peter (US Sales Representative for Magura) has been in steady contact with me regarding the production of the FZ kit. About a week ago he sent me this great news;

"Thanks for follow up.

We now have this clutch 0120689 retail price $ 390.00

Let me know if you are interested.

I only have one in stock today.

Peter"

Needless to say, I purchased the kit the same day. Here is what I received two days later:

As Shipped


Opening the Box




Install will happen this evening with more pictures and reviews to follow. Initial reactions: Great looking great quality part. The matte black finish matches flawlessly with the bike frame and components. The built-in mirror mount will allow for clean mounting of my current Rizoma mirror set-up. The hydraulic line is a surprising carbon fiber composite. Must say...I am impressed and pleased even with the price tag.


More to Come......

 

[LERecords]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

what would be the benifit over the cable clutch??? is this more geared for track purposes???

 

[Wavex]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

Less maintenance (no cable tightening or lubing or cleaning)... less force needed to pull the clutch in... that's about all I can think of...

I personally would like a hydraulic clutch on my bikes, but I can't justify the price for what it gets me (basically nothing imho)...

 

[skooter65]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

I will second Wavex on the description.

As for the cost / benefit ratio: My prior experiences with the hydraulic set-up have been well worth the price (I have had them installed on both of my 2005 and 2007 YFZ450 atvs). I would put it at the number one modification not related to power. Hopefully I have the same experience with the bike.

Less maintenance (no cable tightening or lubing or cleaning)... less force needed to pull the clutch in... that's about all I can think of...

I personally would like a hydraulic clutch on my bikes, but I can't justify the price for what it gets me (basically nothing imho)...

 

[RJ2112]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

Less maintenance (no cable tightening or lubing or cleaning)... less force needed to pull the clutch in... that's about all I can think of...

I personally would like a hydraulic clutch on my bikes, but I can't justify the price for what it gets me (basically nothing imho)...

I've had bikes with hydraulic clutches, as well as cable.... hyd is not maintenance free..... you still have to bleed the cylinders, and flush the fluid routinely. Hyd can also be heat sensitive, just like with brakes. Boil the fluid, you don't have a clutch until it cools off.

Hyd requires less routine maintenance; but the maintenance when it is due is more critical. They do auto adjust, so there's less fiddling with them....

Operationally, I rate them nearly the same.... you can get lower lever effort more easily with the hyd set up. Personally, I always felt the hyd setups were a bit more 'numb' feeling.

 

[LERecords]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

so kinda personal preference then i guess..

 

[RJ2112]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

so kinda personal preference then i guess..

If the clutch is anything other than terrible, I would not personally expend the money to make the change. If I suddenly developed issues with my hands that I couldn't squeeze the lever hard enough to engage the clutch, I'd find a way to modify the clutch.... either with a different leverage ratio, or going to hydraulic.

 

[Wavex]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

I've had bikes with hydraulic clutches, as well as cable.... hyd is not maintenance free..... you still have to bleed the cylinders, and flush the fluid routinely. Hyd can also be heat sensitive, just like with brakes. Boil the fluid, you don't have a clutch until it cools off.

Hyd requires less routine maintenance; but the maintenance when it is due is more critical. They do auto adjust, so there's less fiddling with them....

Operationally, I rate them nearly the same.... you can get lower lever effort more easily with the hyd set up. Personally, I always felt the hyd setups were a bit more 'numb' feeling.

No-one said hyd is "maintenance free"....

Not sure why a hyd clutch maintenance would be more critical than cable clutch maintenance... in both cases the risk of not performing proper maintenance is the same.

How would one boil hyd clutch fluid in normal operation?

 

[skooter65]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

so kinda personal preference then i guess..

Spot On! As RJ2112 says, in his hands, the clutch set-up feels numb. I agree that the "constant" pressure feel can be construed as "numb" since you aren't necessarily feeling the friction and release points as you do with a cable.

If the clutch is anything other than terrible, I would not personally expend the money to make the change. If I suddenly developed issues with my hands that I couldn't squeeze the lever hard enough to engage the clutch, I'd find a way to modify the clutch.... either with a different leverage ratio, or going to hydraulic.

IMHO, the FZ clutch as close to terrible as I have had. Regular cable lubrication seemed to remedy some of the inconstant pull and stick of the clutch; but it still was not up to par with some of the others I have ridden. I had three main reasons for the swap: 1). Prior usage of the hydraulic set-up; 2). The barrel connection at the lever failed on two separate occasions after the cable was lengthened (frustrating on a 200 mile trip). & 3). It looks great!

 

[RJ2112]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

Spot On! As RJ2112 says, in his hands, the clutch set-up feels numb. I agree that the "constant" pressure feel can be construed as "numb" since you aren't necessarily feeling the friction and release points as you do with a cable.



IMHO, the FZ clutch as close to terrible as I have had. Regular cable lubrication seemed to remedy some of the inconstant pull and stick of the clutch; but it still was not up to par with some of the others I have ridden. I had three main reasons for the swap: 1). Prior usage of the hydraulic set-up; 2). The barrel connection at the lever failed on two separate occasions after the cable was lengthened (frustrating on a 200 mile trip). & 3). It looks great!

We've had different experiences..... try a Sportster form the 1960's. Or pretty much any of the British bikes before the 1970's. A much, much tougher proposition. Modern clutches are all wonderful in comparison.

If it's worth the money to you, more power to you for doing so and supporting the economy.

1971 Triumph .... I'd rate that a 2 on a scale of 0 - 10
1985 V65 Honda Sabre....(hydraulic)..... a 5 or 6.
2001 Suzuki Marauder (cable).............. a 5 or 6 for action, durability was questionable
2002 Yamaha V Star 650....... 6-7.... low effort, narrow engagement
2005 FZ6............................6-7. Same issues as the Star my buddy had.

I worked at a MC dealership as a sales man in 1989/90 and got to ride everything on the used bike lot on a daily basis.

Probably near 200 different bike experiences. The FZ6 is average, or slightly lower. But it's not irritating to me; not enough to modify it.

 

[Hellgate]

The FZ6 clutch is okay, the FZ1 is better, I guess.

I do like the Buell hyd clutch. What I really miss is the slipper feature, what a dream.

 

[skooter65]

You don't have to rub it in...FZ1

The FZ6 clutch is okay, the FZ1 is better, I guess.

I do like the Buell hyd clutch. What I really miss is the slipper feature, what a dream.

 

[RJ2112]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

No-one said hyd is "maintenance free"....

Not sure why a hyd clutch maintenance would be more critical than cable clutch maintenance... in both cases the risk of not performing proper maintenance is the same.

How would one boil hyd clutch fluid in normal operation?

The placement of the slave cylinder is crucial to controlling the heat in it. Suzuki's 1400 Intruder had issues with this... big air cooled motor, slave placed near header, covered with a shroud..... in stop and go traffic in high summer heat it responds poorly.

As far as maintenance, the hyd systems are nearly idiot proof..... so low maintenance that it is often overlooked until it fails. Failure can take just a few paths, but it's almost always due to lack of servicing in the form of replacing the fluid. Corrosion in the slave cylinder bore, making a pit that compromises the seals, or debris doing the same.

With a cable system, you tend to get a lot of warning that it's going south. My experience with hyd setups has been they work, until they don't.

 

[deeptekkie]

Re: Hydraulic Clutch!!! Finally

There is no way I could justify the cost, (yet), but my factory installed cable, (like my throttle cable), on my '09 has stretched like a rubber band from day one. (Maybe it will end soon?) I for one would not rule it out.

 

[skooter65]

Follow-UP!

I appreciate everyone's comments and insight on the hydraulic system. I am sure that many have learned from your input..as have I. Everyone seems to be the most sensitive to the cost, which i agree is high, but realistically in comparison to exhaust, headlight conversions, and levers, isn't that far out of place.

And now...Review.

Install: If anyone has ever had to change their air filter or access the battery, they could do this with little effort.
I am not going to go into much detail, but essentially the Fuel tank, Airbox, and Battery needed to be removed in order to provide proper access for cable routing. The Magura Master and Slave cylinder come "pre-charged" (this pretty much means that they are already attached with the hydraulic line and have been properly bled from the factory) which requires the slave cylinder to be fed through the same routing as the hydraulic line. After removing the stock perch and cable, it was a matter of passing the slave cylinder through the cable route and attaching the end to the clutch lever arm.
I would say all-in-all, it took about an hour to complete. (I would add on a little extra time if your bike is fully faired for plastics removal)

The Ride: Wow, is about all I can say right now. The improvement over the original set-up is unbelievable. Clutch pull is significantly reduced; I would even go as far to say that the new proportion of lever pull to slave cylinder travel has actually increased the feel of the friction zone (I realize that the means of clutch engagement does not actually change the friction zone, but the proportion of clutch lever pull to clutch arm movement is different than with the stock cable.) The total "throw" of the hand lever equals a smaller "throw" of the clutch arm at the engine giving much more control of engagement/disengagement. Magura was spot on with this one.


Downfalls: There are two small items so far that i wish were different:
1). The adjuster of the lever limits the spacing between the master cylinder and left-side handlebar controls. You can see the relatively large space between the two. I am looking into swapping out the control switches with something having a shallower backside...
2). I haven't done all of the research, but i can't find aftermarket levers that fit the master cylinder. Ultimately, I would like to have matching clutch and brake levers (in Black). My search begins.

And Last, But not least: Some pretty Pictures. The initial quality of the parts is amazing. I am almost putting the surface finish on par with the Rizomas that are attached.

 

[CombatPenguin]

Very nice. After riding a bike with one I want all my bikes to have one so this looks like a future upgrade. The only bad part is when/ if the start leaking. Now has anyone found a slipper clutch for the fz6 yet?

 

[Lefty]

Nice post Skooter, very informative.
I had a hydraulic clutch on my '86 Interceptor and it was awesome, especially after changing the brake and clutch lines to braided. Low maintenance, basically changing your clutch fluid when you did your brake fluid, easy peasy.
And I've never had a clutch that was as smooth as that. :thumbup:

 

[philosopheriam]

Re: Follow-UP!

Downfalls: There are two small items so far that i wish were different:
1). The adjuster of the lever limits the spacing between the master cylinder and left-side handlebar controls.......

I was about to pull the trigger on one of these until I saw what you were describing - I just don't like that gap between the handle and the controls. For that kind of money, this thing should fit well, too... I'm wondering if Magura has a different handle assembly that with work with the slave cylinder. Have you sent these pics to Magura?

 

[skooter65]

Re: Follow-UP!

I was about to pull the trigger on one of these until I saw what you were describing - I just don't like that gap between the handle and the controls. For that kind of money, this thing should fit well, too... I'm wondering if Magura has a different handle assembly that with work with the slave cylinder. Have you sent these pics to Magura?

Those are some great questions..where to start?

Pictures and e-mails have been sent to Magura regarding the potential contact of the adjuster with our standard left hand controls. Realistically, the problem is the fact that the FZ has one of the "fattest" control switches in the market. None the less, for the price, this is still unacceptable. They are looking into changing the adjustment set-up to allow for proper spacing.

In the same e-mail, Peter from Magura proposed using their 195 Radial Master Cylinder which would give ample space for the stock control switch. He stated that this could be offered as an upgrade to the standard set-up with a minor up-charge (The radial is a more expensive unit to begin with and requires a reservoir and different fittings for the hydraulic line). Please see the first picture for the radial..very nice looking units in my opinion. In fact, I am going to swap over to the radial in a few weeks...along with a matching brake master and perhaps a few Rizoma Reservoirs.

In the mean time, I have swapped out the stock switch with a fairly low end aftermarket from Tusk (the remaining three pictures show the new switch). The gap looks similar but that is only due to the new switch being approximately 1/3rd the width of the stock. It did however allow proper placement of the master with respect to my hand position. It can be moved directly next to the switch without contact of the adjuster if i were so inclined.

I hope this helps in the decision making process and I am more than happy to provide any other details that you may want.

PS: I apologize for the picture quality. I will try to take some that are clearer later today.

 

[philosopheriam]

+1 on the radial mount!!! That looks sexy!

Hopefully after about 4 to 6 months, the prices on these suckers will go down - most of Magura's stuff sells on Ebay from the $185 to $250 range. Hey Pete - do us a favor and move on the price a bit

If in the future the price is right and I can get the setup with a radial mount actuator, I'm down like a clown!