Excess oil

[teeter]

A question was recently posted regarding adding excess oil on purpose. I didn't follow that 100%, but I do have a similar situation - I guess.

About 1500 miles ago I changed the oil and was careful to add the correct amount. I checked the dipstick multiple times and it was perfect in the end.

Now, my bike doesn't burn or use a drop of oil so I rarely check the level. I tend to check it once between changes. Well, I checked it last night and it was about 25% high!!!

I'm draining the excess today.

The question is this: What potential problems could this cause? I've heard mention of the crank "foaming" the oil if it's to high. I've also heard that excess oil can blow out seals. The bike runs great. No leaks. Should I be concerned?

 

[Motogiro]

When you checked it was the bike at the same spot and level? Was the oil hot?

 

[teeter]

When you checked it was the bike at the same spot and level? Was the oil hot?

Same spot. Level and on the center stand both times. It was warm (not hot) when I checked last night. Cold when I checked this AM.

I changed and checked the oil level in that same spot in the same conditions 1500 miles ago.

 

[RJ2112]

......

The question is this: What potential problems could this cause? I've heard mention of the crank "foaming" the oil if it's to high. I've also heard that excess oil can blow out seals. The bike runs great. No leaks. Should I be concerned?

It you have not seen excessive smoke, heard any major mechanical noises, and the engine temps are 'normal'.... I don't think you have hit the 'dangerous' level of excess.

Potential problems:

Excess oil can be high enough in the crank case to the point where the PCV (positive crankcase Ventilation) valve sends it back to the air box... that's vented inside the air filter, so any oil vapor is dumped into the intake, and the cylinders. When it's just vapor, that's a good thing and reduces smog. Just gets burned up with the gasoline.

When it's liquid; that's a Very Bad Thing. A situation called hydraulic lock can occur. (I'd think this would take more than one quart high to accomplish. Probably more than 2 quarts high..... but that's purely a guess)

Our engines compress gasses to make power. Liquids do not compress. When the piston reaches top dead center, there's ~15cc of volume between the cylinder and the piston. If you develop some amount of oil in the cylinder displacing some part of that 15cc, the compression goes up drastically. Instead of 11:1 you may approach 25:1. Rings do not like this. If you blow the rings off the cylinder wall, they will not (ever) seal as well as they did before that happened.

In more extreme cases, you can make the piston meet an immoveable object. Connecting rods can bend. Pistons may crack.... you may only make the bearings' oil film break down, and scar the crank. This is Very Bad....

Foaming occurs when the engine oil in the sump is so deep that it makes more contact with the crankshaft than the designers wanted...... the crankshaft whips the oil just like a mixer does to cake batter and the like. Mayoniase is essentially vegetable oil that has been whipped into a froth...... a material very similar to that will not go through your oil pump very well.

Bearings don't like that.

 

[RJ2112]

Same spot. Level and on the center stand both times. It was warm (not hot) when I checked last night. Cold when I checked this AM.

I changed and checked the oil level in that same spot in the same conditions 1500 miles ago.

Oil continues to 'drain down' for many hours after you shut off the engine..... 25% high? You need to define that a little better. If you are talking 25% above the 'high' mark on the dip stick, that's only 1/4 quart high. No big deal.

Not a big surprise on an overnight check.

25% of the 3 quart capacity of the engine, that's 3/4 qt..... probably nearing the upper limit of design margin.

 

[wolfc70]

1. The dip sticks on these bikes are not 100% accurate due to the angle they sit at. One side will show a different level then the other side.

2. Do not screw the dip stick in, just insert it and pull back out.

3. 1/4 of an inch or so is nothing to worry about, also oil expands at it gets warm.

 

[teeter]

thanks all.

By "25% high" i only meant that if the bottom of the dip stick was 0% and the top of the hatched section was 100% the I was 25% above the top of the hatched section. Probably well less than 1/4" above.

I drained about 2-3 oz (maybe a tenth of a liter) and that was it. I'm at a perfect level now.

1/10 liter... clearly no cause for alarm.


Thanks again!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Oil continues to 'drain down' for many hours after you shut off the engine..... 25% high? You need to define that a little better. If you are talking 25% above the 'high' mark on the dip stick, that's only 1/4 quart high. No big deal.

Not a big surprise on an overnight check.

25% of the 3 quart capacity of the engine, that's 3/4 qt..... probably nearing the upper limit of design margin.

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My FJR has done the same thing. There was a thread on the FJR forum regarding the same thing, its normal...

When checking it, check it exactly the same way each time, IE run it a couple of minutes let it sit (per the manual) the check. If you check it dead cold, more oil will be in the oil pan after draining down from the upper end of the engine overnight.

When I change my oil, I try to keep it in the middle of the hash marks for the FZ(or site glass on the FJR)...

 

[scottfarm]

Walmart supertech 7317 filter and exactly 3 quarts puts it at top line of dip stick not screwed in. No measuring and no guessing.

 

[trougnouf]

Whenever I do an oil change I just dump the three 1liter bottles so it's a little higher than max (3 liters = 3.17 quarts). I use the longer filter so I figured I could put slightly more, is that bad for my FZ6?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I'd keep it between the marks on the dip stick. Too much oil can cause the crankshaft to whip up the oil into foam (not good).

 

[Norbert]

Whenever I do an oil change I just dump the three 1liter bottles so it's a little higher than max (3 liters = 3.17 quarts). I use the longer filter so I figured I could put slightly more, is that bad for my FZ6?

For this, I first fill the oil to the maximum level, or very close to it, with the bike upright.
Then I start the engine and let it run for 2-3 minutes. Next, I stop the engine, wait a few minutes, and recheck the oil level, filling if necessary.
This should take in account your larger oil filter. I got this from the Haynes manual. Maybe the more experienced folks can chime in on this? My engine hasn't fallen apart (yet)....

 

[deeptekkie]

IMO: I think most folks here generally agree it's probably okay. I know mine came new overfilled to the top of the stick, (past he crosshatched area). I just changed it myself and carefully added the amount that the book says and guess what? It's up past the crosshatched area on the stick - just like it was when I bought it new.
I tend to think that when an engine is running, a major portion of the oil is supsended in mid-air and running down on every surface within the engine/transmission. Engine oil lubricates, cools, seals, cleans, quietens, and does a barrage of things. I'm not worrying about a little too much showing on the stick. "It's in there"