Engine Trouble Warning light after 8000 rpm

[Silvia6]

Hello,

I have a 2004 FZ6 S and it seems that I have a problem with it. The engine warning trouble light always lights up after 8000 rpm. Initially, this problem was not only when accelerating suddenly, but also when decelerating suddenly.

I changed the oil, the oil filter, the air filter, the spark plugs and the coolant and now the engine warning trouble light now appears only when accelerating, and only after 8000 rpm. The engine trouble lights stays for a few seconds and after that, everything comes back to normal.

When I start the bike there is no error code on the display and the bike functions perfectly, except this little detail.

Do you have any idea why this happens?

 

[Motogiro]

If I had a symptom like what you've described I would start checking/cleaning all harness plugs and vacuum lines. I would think if it were a sensor you would see an error code. Check everything you can including battery terminals.

 

[pookamatic]

Have you tried this under both load and no load conditions? Same result? Interested to see if this happens on the center stand.

 

[Motogiro]

Have you tried this under both load and no load conditions? Same result? Interested to see if this happens on the center stand.

True. That might help to discriminate as to whether it's a vacuum related anomaly.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Does it cut out under higher rpms but not the red redline?

 

[Silvia6]

If I had a symptom like what you've described I would start checking/cleaning all harness plugs and vacuum lines. I would think if it were a sensor you would see an error code. Check everything you can including battery terminals.

I`ve just replaced the battery, so the battery terminals are checked and squeaky clean. I will start checking/cleaning all harness plugs and vacuum lines; that`s a good idea.

 

[Silvia6]

Have you tried this under both load and no load conditions? Same result? Interested to see if this happens on the center stand.

I don`t usually carry a lot of load (a backpack tied onto the back seat, tops) and my weight is 50 kg (110 pounds), so I really don`t think it`s a problem related to the load conditions. But today, after work, I will try to see if this also happens on the center stand.

 

[Silvia6]

Does it cut out under higher rpms but not the red redline?

It always happens after 8000 rpm : the motorcycle enters some kind of fault/failure state, the engine warning light lights up for a few seconds, and the motorcycle does not accelerate anymore. After the warning light turns off, everything is back to normal, until I reach 8000 rpm again. I never get to reach the red line because the motorcycle won`t accelerate after the warning light turns on.

 

[FinalImpact]

I think I'd be looking at the ignition trigger wheel on the crank. The bike can't detect what the injectors have/or are doing it, and the key to all timed events is the Crankshaft position sensor. Should the ECM loose valid inputs from this device it it is UNABLE to recover.

Should it be any other sensor responsible for engine operation, it can substitute a fail safe input. Inspect the wires from the RS of the engine cover. If nothing is found upon inspection of the wire harness (I think it will be fine, unless you live by the ocean), then set the bike on the side stand in a dust free area and pull the RS engine cover. There threads on this. Do a search for Vegas Rider with key words like "Crankshaft position sensor", "Timing Chain" etc.


FAIL-SAFE ACTIONS (SUBSTITUTE CHARACTERISTICS OPERATION CONTROL)
If the ECU detects an abnormal signal from a sensor while the vehicle is being driven, the ECU illuminates the engine trouble warning light and provides the engine with alternate operating instructions that are appropriate for the type of malfunction.
When an abnormal signal is received from a sensor, the ECU processes the specified values that are programmed for each sensor in order to provide the engine with alternate operating instructions that enable the engine to continue to operate or stop operating, depending on the conditions. blah blah blah

 

[FinalImpact]

Also - just before cutting off; is there any increase in vibrations?

Example, if the vibes create an increase and this increase creates a momentary disconnect of something like the side stand switch it will cut the engine off. Same with the kill switch on the bars and the Tip over switch.

So you can inspect each of those and bypass them or look under the cover.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Also - just be cutting off; is there any increase in vibrations?

Example, if the vibes create an increase and this increase creates a momentary disconnect of something like the side stand switch it will cut the engine off. Same with the kill switch on the bars and the Tip over switch.

So you can inspect each of those and bypass them or look under the cover.

As the red kill switch so often fails I would, as Randy said, look at that first.

HOWEVER, I don't believe any mention of the engine light coming on when others, with a bad kill switch failed..

Something else to consider, being its under acceleration, which comes to mind, the oil level switch in the oil pan. Oil, with the change in speed is sloshing back. If the level is low or that oil level (its not pressure) is not reading correctly, will that shut down the bike?? Once the engine slows, the oil settles back down, it goes away and runs fine...

Can you SLOWLY accelerate the bike past 8,000 RPM (not a hard launch)?

Cliff, perhaps bypassing that oil level switch just to rule it out?


I'm assuming no ones messed with the Tip over switch under the right pod?

 

[Motogiro]

Can it rev passed 8000 rpm when just sitting? Put it in neutral and rev it. Keep the rear wheel on the ground so there is no movement. Put it on the center stand, in neutral, the rear wheel will still rotate. is there limited revs while the wheel moves?

There have been 2 FZ6 bikes I know of, that have had a problem with crosstalk signals from the speedo sensor getting to other sensor wires because of salt contamination in the plugs. So when the output shaft turns the interference exists and when there is no wheel movement the engine will rev out. This would seem like a load problem when it is actually a wheel speed problem and the sensors are cross talking their signals. This condition would exist at acceleration and deceleration. If this is what's happening disconnect the battery negative lead and clean all your plugs including ECU plug. Compressed air is a must. Salt and moister wreak havoc on smaller signals. When I suspect a problem with salt I rinse the harness plugs with water and dry right away with compressed air. Then a dielectric grease is good to help keep further contaminants out in the future.

 

[FinalImpact]

As I mentioned; how many issues come from our coastal residents and/or those who ride on salted roads?

I'm guessing that ONE or the OTHER of our diagnoses is correct. My thought is weighing towards the chain hitting the crank sensor at 8000 RPM and the ECM throwing its hands up. The only thing that doesn't hold up here is the lack of a reported error code. << That leads me to believe there is more than one fault occurring. i.e. multi connections like the ECM are compromised.

 

[Motogiro]

As I mentioned; how many issues come from our coastal residents and/or those who ride on salted roads?

I'm guessing that ONE or the OTHER of our diagnoses is correct. My thought is weighing towards the chain hitting the crank sensor at 8000 RPM and the ECM throwing its hands up. The only thing that doesn't hold up here is the lack of a reported error code. << That leads me to believe there is more than one fault occurring. i.e. multi connections like the ECM are compromised.

That usually generates the #12 error code.

 

[FinalImpact]

That usually generates the #12 error code.

Exactly!!! That's why this is so strange.

FWIW: ECM is the blob in the middle with all the wires. Let us know if you have any other questions.

 

[Silvia6]

OK, first of all, thank you so much for the excellent advice. Second of all, I tried doing the following:
- clean all the wires and harness plugs (left side, right side and under the tank) - everything looked ok, nice and clean inside; on the outside it was a little dust and dirt, but on the inside it was perfectly clean (I must mention that I don't live by the ocean or the seaside. There is the occasional rain and yes, I ride even if it's raining, and of course I wash the bike (!!), but I don't think that this might actually cause the problem that I have)
- clean the fuses (they looked very bad, I took them out and cleaned them)
- put the motorcycle on the central stand in neutral and accelerate it slowly - the only result was that the warning light lit at 9000 rpm, not at 8000rpm. What I noticed while doing all these tests now is that the warning light turns on only if I keep the motorcycle at more than 8000 rpm. If I accelerate it at more than 10000 rpm and then let go of the acceleration, there is no warning light. I can even cross the red line, there is no warning light. But longer periods of time at 8000 rpm make the warning light turn on.
- the oil level is good (there are 0.15 inches/4mm till the maximum level - but I can add up a few more oil so that the level is at maximum, only to clear this from the list) and the oil is changed recently (at the suggestion of the Yamaha dealer I used 15w 50 Bel-Ray; the reasons for not choosing 10w30 (recommended by the producer) were: the motorcycle has more than 27000 miles/45000 km and the country I live in is very hot - with temperatures around 110 °F/45 °C in summer)


What I didn't do just yet and I have to do is:
- to take the RS engine cover and check the "Crankshaft position sensor", "Timing Chain"
- check if there is any increase in vibration just before the warning light turns on (I didn't notice any significant increase in vibration but maybe I wasn't paying attention to it. With the old tires, after 80/mph it was a significant increase in vibration, but it was due to the tires. Now I am the proud owner of a new set of tires which I will be testing tomorrow, when my main focus will be whether there is a vibration or not.

I also took some pictures and I filmed the warning light thingy, and as soon as I figure out how to upload pictures or movies I will post them.

 

[Silvia6]

I attached some pictures with the harness plugs, before cleaning them.
And here is the link with the film: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVWLU7TJNGI&feature=em-upload_owner]MAH00505 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Motogiro]

I attached some pictures with the harness plugs, before cleaning them.
And here is the link with the film: MAH00505 - YouTube

I noticed the bottom segment of your tachometer is blinking. This is an indication that the engine is not warmed up and to not push the engine. Is this bottom segment of your tachometer always blinking? If it is always blinking this may be why your seeing the engine light. If this is the case your temperature sending unit may be bad. Or you have a band thermostat and the engine in not coming to normal operating temperature....

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ Cliff, good eye and good observation. Is it possible the ECM throws a fault due to the engine being under temp? Sounds unlikely but :don'tknow::don'tknow:

Silvia,
Any chance you have a DMM? I'm curious what the battery voltage is at idle and above 8000?

So, without a load, it Revved to 9000 but with a load i.e. riding it, it fails to accelerate, but keeps running as you keep it above 8000.

What does it really do during this time? Is it missing, sputtering, how does the tone sound? Anything to give us some insight about its running when it fails to accelerate would be helpful. This is STRANGE!!!

If there were NO WARNING light but it failed to Rev above 8k I'd be normally looking at some of the following:

Fuel delivery, i.e. loss of pressure/volume for the demand
Spark energy, i.e. do this at night in pitch black and look for high voltage arc-over from spark plug wires, either from ground or to each other.

Because its so RPM dependent; I still wonder about the crank trigger.

 

[Silvia6]

I noticed the bottom segment of your tachometer is blinking. This is an indication that the engine is not warmed up and to not push the engine. Is this bottom segment of your tachometer always blinking? If it is always blinking this may be why your seeing the engine light. If this is the case your temperature sending unit may be bad. Or you have a band thermostat and the engine in not coming to normal operating temperature....

It's true, now the engine was not warmed up, hence the blinking, but I always let the engine warm up before going for a ride (even for a short ride). The blinking stops after the engine is warmed up (2 lines). This was only a quick recording to show you the warning light. The warning light turns on even if the engine is warmed up and or even after a 200 mile ride.