Drilled out my manifold bolts... and now dripping :/

[cmpfz6]

Hi Guys, been a member on here for years but don't know if I've ever posted! Some great tips and advice to be seen anyway so thanks I have an '05 FZ6 which I've been spending some time repairing recently, a few jobs such as replacing fork seals, some work on the brakes and generally cleaning and maintaining. I took off the exhaust and surprise surprise, broke a couple of the manifold studs. I replaced the ones which came out clean with stainless ones but some needed drilling out. This was mostly successful but on one I drilled right through into the coolant passage. After retapping the hole I replaced the stud and tried it out, only to find that it drips, particularly when it gets warm and I tried to correct this with some RTV sealant. Unfortunately even this wasn't enough and it continues to drip through.

So, can anyone recommend a solution or a different thread lock which might work? my next move is to drill out the hole to M10, insert a homemade plug, then helicoil the hole to accept the M8 stud. I've tried to find a threadlock which works to high enough temperature but I don't know what kinda temp the manifold would get to - most thread sealants work to about 400F (about 180C), which I don't think is enough.

I know I'm an idiot for doing it in the first place so feel free to get it out of your system!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hi Guys, been a member on here for years but don't know if I've ever posted! Some great tips and advice to be seen anyway so thanks I have an '05 FZ6 which I've been spending some time repairing recently, a few jobs such as replacing fork seals, some work on the brakes and generally cleaning and maintaining. I took off the exhaust and surprise surprise, broke a couple of the manifold studs. I replaced the ones which came out clean with stainless ones but some needed drilling out. This was mostly successful but on one I drilled right through into the coolant passage. After retapping the hole I replaced the stud and tried it out, only to find that it drips, particularly when it gets warm and I tried to correct this with some RTV sealant. Unfortunately even this wasn't enough and it continues to drip through.

So, can anyone recommend a solution or a different thread lock which might work? my next move is to drill out the hole to M10, insert a homemade plug, then helicoil the hole to accept the M8 stud. I've tried to find a threadlock which works to high enough temperature but I don't know what kinda temp the manifold would get to - most thread sealants work to about 400F (about 180C), which I don't think is enough.

I know I'm an idiot for doing it in the first place so feel free to get it out of your system!

Welcome officially to the forum!

If the threads are good, I wouldn't re-drill, tap, etc unless absolutly necessary. I think all you would need to a high temp thread sealant. Doesn't necessarily even have to be a locking product.

Checking the web, I found this product thats good up to 500 degrees: Threadsealing Archives - Vibra-Tite .

I've never checked with the lazer temp gun the head temp at those studs which may very well be hotter than 500 degree's.

I would think the head itself gets that hot around the studs however you have a coolant passage right there, keeping temps around/under 200 degrees F. If the coolant keeps it under 500F, close to water jacket, should work.

Another option, depending on how deep the hole is (and threaded all the way thru), a very short allan headed plug(same size threads-no need to open up further), with that sealant could go in first (and stay cool and dry with the coolant), then install your header stud.


[MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION], [MENTION=7496]Erci[/MENTION]

 

[FinalImpact]

Well that is a bummer. So, as best you can is coolant flowing in that area or is it dead space. I ask as over time flow may wear down a product.
Thats said i may opt for a high temperature epoxy. Although the stud holds the exhaust, the coolant jacket likely never exceeds 275°f so this may be an option....
HighHeat | Temperature Resistant Epoxy Putty

Of course there are some who may throw bars leak in it, but I'd do some research beyond the links provided and see if there is a better fit. My concern is it will get brittle and fail/seap.
Keep us posted....

 

[cmpfz6]

Great thanks for your help, both of you. It's definitely a flowing passage that I've gone into as when the stud is removed (after cooling of course!) the coolant flows out. The putty may be a good solution to go between a plug and the stud, whereas something like the thread sealer would be good to use to prevent leakage around the plug. I guess what I'm unsure of is what temp it needs to withstand; the RTV sealer I got said it was good for 600F, but really it's meant for making liquid gaskets so maybe not the best thing for sealing threads. Ergh hope it get this sorted soon!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Great thanks for your help, both of you. It's definitely a flowing passage that I've gone into as when the stud is removed (after cooling of course!) the coolant flows out. The putty may be a good solution to go between a plug and the stud, whereas something like the thread sealer would be good to use to prevent leakage around the plug. I guess what I'm unsure of is what temp it needs to withstand; the RTV sealer I got said it was good for 600F, but really it's meant for making liquid gaskets so maybe not the best thing for sealing threads. Ergh hope it get this sorted soon!

Here ya go:

On-line Product Catalog:*Scotch® Pipe Thread Sealant Tape 48

Its for pipe thread but should work. I'd give them a call and explain what you have and get their opinion.

 

[cmpfz6]

Oh, and this is the product I tried already.

Pro Seal Red Hi-Temp RTV Silicone Instant Gasket 85g Jointing Compound | eBay

Could probably be used in place of the putty suggested. I can get some M8 stainless grub screws which could work well as you suggested. I'll let you know if it works

 

[cmpfz6]

Here ya go:

On-line Product Catalog:*Scotch® Pipe Thread Sealant Tape 48

Its for pipe thread but should work. I'd give them a call and explain what you have and get their opinion.

Ah great, thanks I'll get on it :thumbup:

 

[FinalImpact]

Great thanks for your help, both of you. It's definitely a flowing passage that I've gone into as when the stud is removed (after cooling of course!) the coolant flows out. The putty may be a good solution to go between a plug and the stud, whereas something like the thread sealer would be good to use to prevent leakage around the plug. I guess what I'm unsure of is what temp it needs to withstand; the RTV sealer I got said it was good for 600F, but really it's meant for making liquid gaskets so maybe not the best thing for sealing threads. Ergh hope it get this sorted soon!

Silicone is not the best option with glycol IMO. Take a look at what compounds are in commercial "Bars" leak or Stop Leak. That would be good place to start.

Scott's idea of getting plug in first is great if the situation will bear such an undertaking (does depth allow this?).

Does the stud seat deep enough for the threads to secure the hole or is the hole far beyond the studs depth?

This could go horridly wrong, but chunk of soft lead and then seat it with a punch or the end of the stud is crazy notion. As mentioned, 275F would likely be the max temp it ever sees. Coolant is boiling over at 235F and its really the mainstream exhaust flow hitting 1200F, so I think it should be fine if the product is rated to 400F. Think about it, the head never gets that hot. The oil wouldn't last if it did, so 250 275 is a reasonable EXTREME and I'd guess it never gets that hot.

As for flow - just because coolant is present doesn't mean is like a river on the other side. Think of water spigot when its off; No flow but water is present on the other side of the valve. Flow and turbulence is what takes out paper gaskets on water pumps. The constant movement dissolves the paper and sealant. I'm thinking some form of paste that hardens. Even a two part thing or ALL-Metal if its good for 350F + glycol resistant. Its a two part epoxy aluminum paste. Could work well.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Oh, and this is the product I tried already.

Pro Seal Red Hi-Temp RTV Silicone Instant Gasket 85g Jointing Compound | eBay

Looks and reads like it would fix the problem, but isn't designed for threads, just gaskets with surface area.

Something designed specifically for threads, I would think, would be the way to go..

Good luck...

 

[bdevries]

So you drilled through into the coolant passage, are you sure no shards of metal got inside the engine? If they did that could cause some problems far more serious than a broken stud.. Someone may need to back me up on that but I'd be afraid of pieces of metal flowing through my engine destroying things

 

[FinalImpact]

PS - whatever path you decide - few items will stick to glycol. So spray a bunch of MAF cleaner or Brake cleaner in the hole to get it clean.

U.S. Chemical & Plastics

Sadness - no temperature rating....
http://www.uschem.com/products/docs/TDS_ALL_METAL_Sep2012.pdf

 

[FinalImpact]

Looks and reads like it would fix the problem, but isn't designed for threads, just gaskets with surface area.

Something designed specifically for threads, I would think, would be the way to go..

Good luck...

^^ Agreed!

I never seen silicone do well in this scenario. Silicon likes being captive with no where to go. This is not that case.

 

[FinalImpact]

So you drilled through into the coolant passage, are you sure no shards of metal got inside the engine? If they did that could cause some problems far more serious than a broken stud.. Someone may need to back me up on that but I'd be afraid of pieces of metal flowing through my engine destroying things

The water pump is a steel impeller it should be fine. A small chunk of casting or shards of aluminum will likely just get stuck somewhere like the bottom of the radiator or some other passage and lay there forever. Worst case is it makes to the Throttle Body cold idle circuit and sticks it in fast idle more. Should be an easy fix tho!

I find it it unlikely to be an issue but a crack taking off from the rough edge of the broken area could be a long term issue. Its unlikely tho.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So you drilled through into the coolant passage, are you sure no shards of metal got inside the engine? If they did that could cause some problems far more serious than a broken stud.. Someone may need to back me up on that but I'd be afraid of pieces of metal flowing through my engine destroying things

Those aluminm pieces would stay in the cooling system and wouldn't affect the oiling system/bearings, etc.

A good flush would be a good idea, pulling the coolant hoses, access (not removal) to the oil cooler(at the front of the engine), water pump, radiator and flush.

Worse case scenerio, it eats the water pump mechanical seal.

Randy, the fast idle water coolant passage, does it have coolant flow thru it, or just to it(less likely to get stuck inside)....

 

[cmpfz6]

Yup yup, this all makes sense, thanks for sticking with this guys it's good to have a few heads thinking on this instead of just mine. Regarding the debris, this was my thinking as well and the system has been flushed through about 4 times now as I've had to drain it every time I've readressed the problem. I'm gonna get some grub screws, about 12mm length, seal it with some hi temp thread lock and then stop it with some putty or similar before screwing in the stud back in on top. If that doesn't work it'll be a new bike I think!

Also just noticed you're in Cape Coral - got a place in SW FL, beautiful part of the world

 

[iSteve]

I know this may sound a little outside the box but you may want to look into one of the thread sealers used by steam boiler installers. They deal with high temps and high pressure.

 

[cmpfz6]

I know this may sound a little outside the box but you may want to look into one of the thread sealers used by steam boiler installers. They deal with high temps and high pressure.

Thanks, I have some stuff on order which I hope will sort the problem but if not, I may need to seek that kinda help.

 

[yamihoe]

how come nobody thought of JB weld and duct tape? Blah

 

[cmpfz6]

Just to keep you posted, these are the weapons of choice:

Evostik Evostik Hard And Fast 50g Car Maintenance Adhesives BOSTIK EVOSTICK ADHE | eBay

Permatex 59214 High temperature Thread sealant Thread sealer Thread lock | eBay

Sounds like it should work, just hope it will resist glycol, I did try to get some scotch ptfe tape but it was out of stock. Ordered some grub screws which should provide a good plug... Duct tape always a good option if all else fails!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The permatex looks like it should take care of it! :thumbup: