Dang bike won't track straight...

C

CoolATIGuy

'05 FZ6, ~10k miles - I did my own oil/oil filter/brake fluid flush/coolant flush myself for the 1st time, so was feeling inspired to move onto another project...

Whenever taking both hands off the handlebars, you can instantly feel the bike start to lean left. I've tried at slow speeds, medium speeds, downhill in neutral, always the same. You can hang your rear/body halfway off the right side, let go, and it will still want to go left. You *can* make it lean to the right, but not as easily or consistently - and once you sit back anywhere near centered, it leans left. Only takes about 3 seconds sitting straight up to go from right side of lane to left just drifting at 35-40mph without hands on bars.

I researched and messed with this literally almost the entire weekend - read all about rear alignments, string aligning, pivot to axle aligning, laser levels, rulers, 2x4's, vinear calipers...enough to make your (my) head swim.

I started with string aligning with thin ribbon and a flexible tape measure (can you say sowing kit?). Finally figured out that wasn't going anywhere, so I bought a digital inch/mm caliper, tape measure, 30lb monofilament string, and set to work.

I've adjusted the back end every which way, had a 2nd set of hands helping, tightened/loosened both adjuster bolts on both sides, tried tightening the left adjuster shorter than the right and vice versa, moved them every which way from Sunday - but every test ride it still drifts left. I even got it string aligned to where (after MANY hours of frustration and tweaking) the chain seemed to be at the right tension AND the front tire seemed to be within 1mm on all sides of the string, so it SHOULD have been aligned. I can minimize the effect somewhat by messing with the alignment bolts, but then it seems to handle fight more when trying to steer the opposite direction...it also generally seems to not handle quite as well AND I'm hearing more chain noises now. :(

I haven't had the tires changed or adjusted the chain for almost a year (about when I bought it), and haven't laid it down, although I did enter a McDonald's parking lot awhile back of which the entrance was being worked and the turn in was higher than normal (like a curb) - I came in straight on (~20-30mph?) , but it was a big enough jar I was concerned. Mechanic took it for a spin, said it felt fine to him, but while I was/am a novice, it didn't feel like it had...but I figured maybe psychological?

I don't think it's a weight issue, or me not riding straight, or a wallet in my pocket, any of that jazz. Something's off, I just don't know which piece or how to track it down.

So now this is driving me crazy and irritated - I've spent numerous hours and bought several tools to figure this out, laying in the driveway in the gnarly heat we've been having, without the success I was hoping for.

Any thoughts on whether I just am doing the totally wrong thing and the rear is still not aligned, or if I've been chasing the wrong cat and it's actually the front tires, or forks, or fork fluid, or handle bars, or something else? How do you check if the other stuff is straight?

IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK THE BIKE TO RIDE IN A FREAKIN STRAIGHT LINE!?

(thanks for letting me vent - heat stroke prob)
 

Motogiro

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Front wheel bearing, twisted forks, tire air pressure, swing arm pivot bearing.

I always use my little Motion Pro tool to align my rear wheel and my bike seems happy.

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C

CoolATIGuy

Tire pressure should be fine. How do you check the other things?

When yours is aligned, sitting centered and perfectly still without holding on, will your bike track perfect straight down the road?
 

Motogiro

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Tire pressure should be fine. How do you check the other things?

When yours is aligned, sitting centered and perfectly still without holding on, will your bike track perfect straight down the road?

It goes to which ever side I lean.

Get the service manual and do the service checks.
Your bike doesn't have many miles..
 

Cali rider

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After all of your effort, I would suggest that your front tire is worn asymmetrically. You could cut a template to exactly match the tire profile, then flip it 180° and see if gaps/peak appear.
 

FinalImpact

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The quality tires we run I would never expect to see a slipped belt internal to the tires structure - but what you describe here seems like its very likely. In an auto a slipped belt (cord in the tires structure) can easily make it pull to one side or the other. So I have to ask, how old are the tires and is it worthwhile to replace them as a means of ruling out what it isn't?

If the tire is NOT symmetrical from SIDE TO SIDE it could make the bike turn all the time. PS - I'm following this line of thinking as you said the rear tire has been in numerous positions and it didn't help so:
* Assuming the steering head bearing don't lock into position under load.
* Rear wheel is aligned relatively close to straight.
** EVEN IF the front forks are tweaked out of align, it won't make it pull or lean on its own. The handle bars MAY NOT BE STRAIGHT but it won't turn in circles! It WILL make you the rider uncomfortable being all jacked out of shape with the bars pointed left or right while the bike is going straight tho.

Look closely at the tires and confirm uniform wear from side to side. Using play-dough and saran wrap you could make a mold of the tire and flip it over putting it back on the tire. If it fits 100% contact that would be good, but it doesn't mean the tire(s) aren't bad. Anyway you'll need something strong to help this keep shape. A band saw and scrap of wood comes to mind.

You have a very interesting problem!
 
C

CoolATIGuy

Thanks for the responses!

'05, got last June with ~2900 miles on the clock, ~9900 now. Running BT-023's that I put on at at ~3300 miles on the clock (so 6600 miles on them).

Both tires show wear almost all the way to the edge on the right side, while the left side doesn't have wear as far to the edge, but I attributed that to a right hand turn ramp I hit every day coming home from work, where I lean lower than I do anywhere else.

Also, the front has a 3/4" semi-flat spot down the middle of the tire, and on the left (chain side) of the bike, it's raised a bit. The back isn't too bad, although it might be a little flat down the center, but not as noticeable as the front. I've felt the same bubbling (cupping?) down the left (chain side) of the tire before as well, but not feeling it now.

I was hoping to get some more life out of the tires, the tread seems pretty decent to me, but I know there is more to it under the surface. :( So I guess I need to figure out how to check all those other things, and if no go then swap the tires...

EDIT: actually, the front tire has more like a 1.25" flat spot, and it's not quite centered on the tire - it's offset a bit to the right (brake lever) side of the tire. The left (clutch lever) side of that flat spot is more prominent and raised than the right side.
 
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C

CoolATIGuy

Here are a few pics (first 3 are front tire, last 4 are back tire, very first photo with caliper shows width of raised/flat band you can feel down middle of front tire).

I ride mostly interstate, with some 4 lane roads to get home, not much twisty.

I'm thinking of just shelling out for a new set of tires, but there is just so much tread left here I hate to waste...plus not knowing if that will fix the problem to track straight anyways...even just 1 finger on the handlebars will keep the bike in line, but with no hands it just favors that left lean quite a bit...

EDIT: Again, this is treadlife at ~6600 miles.
 
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FinalImpact

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Could the steering head bearings not be seated properly?

That would bridge a gap to another story. . . loose shaking head. He has no complaints in that area and beyond that, just because its loose, that won't make it pull to one side.

I'm going to call this as N/A - > not applicable. . .

Now if the head stuck and didn't turn freely; now we have something to go on. . .
 
C

CoolATIGuy

Head's as solid as a rock, even on the interstate it's smooth, no headshake whatsoever.
 

FinalImpact

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'05 FZ6, ~10k miles -
Whenever taking both hands off the handlebars, you can instantly feel the bike start to lean left. . . . .

I ride mostly interstate, with some 4 lane roads to get home, not much twisty. Both tires show wear almost all the way to the edge on the right side, while the left side doesn't have wear as far to the edge, but I attributed that to a right hand turn ramp I hit every day coming home from work, where I lean lower than I do anywhere else.

Also, the front has a 3/4" semi-flat spot down the middle of the tire, and on the left (chain side) of the bike, it's raised a bit. The back isn't too bad, although it might be a little flat down the center, but not as noticeable as the front. I've felt the same bubbling (cupping?) down the left (chain side) of the tire before as well, but not feeling it now.

EDIT: actually, the front tire has more like a 1.25" flat spot, and it's not quite centered on the tire - it's offset a bit to the right (brake lever) side of the tire. The left (clutch lever) side of that flat spot is more prominent and raised than the right side..


OK - as an experiment do these:
Find a flat level, not crowned section of highway with no ruts in it and confirm it goes left.
**AS A TEST ONLY** Inflate the tires to the maximum rating (maybe a few pounds over) and repeat this same test on the same highway section. When you return home - Deflate them to the proper range!!!

Does it change how it behaves? To me it sounds like your riding environment and style may have attributed to the wear on the tires which makes it want to lean/track/pull/steer or what ever you choose to call it to the left.

What I have seen is this: as the tires get squared off from highway miles they have a negative impact on steering input.
PICTURE THIS: draw a big V on paper. The contact patch is in the center at that tiny spot on the bottom of the V. Nothing else touches and its so narrow it not susceptible to the irregular surface around it. You the rider can lean the bike but the tire really doesn't see the imperfections in the road which can steer the bike.
Now draw a big U with a bottom curve being a flat spot. This shape is going to input all kinds of feed back to the rider letting him feel every groove, unequal surface, tar patch and line on the road. Thats what squared off tires do.

I think tires will fix this IMO as you say you can see the difference from side to side. SO is the cost worth it?
 
C

CoolATIGuy

I used to run the tires at 33 front/36 rear, but for quite awhile have done 36 front/42 rear. Just checked, it's at 35 front/42 rear now.

With so much tread, I hate to waste these now. If I swap out the tires or otherwise figure out what does or doesn't fix it, I'll try to post an update. Meanwhile, I guess I'll just get the alignment in the ballpark and ride it as is until tires are truly necessary. :(
 
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